AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

[PatEl]

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions re: solo mission trips. When I was digging around in the church's past newsletters, it struck me that, with the exception of RS, most of the ministerial staff is interim or temporary. I was wondering if somehow he managed to manipulate the mission trip so he could go alone since there didn't seem to be any regular or permanent person to act as a supervisor to RS. It would be much harder for him to flee to Russia if there were others from the church accompanying him.

 

[killarney rose]

I don't think his plan was to openly flee to Russia. He would be working back and forth between Germany and a Russian state. Therefore if he "happened" to be in that Russian state while working, he could stay in order to avoid extradition. Much more subtle in terms of fleeing.

 

[LambChop]

And if LE really needed him back, given the fact that the grand jury is secret, they could have gone to Germany while they knew he was there and brought him back from Germany. He would only be able to work in Kazakhstan for short periods of time. Isn't that correct?

 

[PatEl]

killarney_rose, I agree. I also think his attorneys will appeal and manage to get him out on bond because he can say he wasn't trying to flee since he made the trip known publicly.

I also find it interesting that the current interim pastor <modsnip> worked with RS for 10 yrs in the past at another church and the best he could say was, "I tend to believe that he's innocent."

<modsnip>

 

[meanmaryjean]

killarney_rose, I agree. I also think his attorneys will appeal and manage to get him out on bond because he can say he wasn't trying to flee since he made the trip known publicly.

I also find it interesting that the current interim pastor <modsnip> worked with RS for 10 yrs in the past at another church and the best he could say was, "I tend to believe that he's innocent."

<modsnip>

One thing you must understand is what a politically charged position a minister is in. Similar to- but on a much smaller scale- than the position an actual politician is in. Their every word is parsed. Churches have 'split' into irreparable factions over things much, much less inflammatory than whether the current pastor think a member of the staff is a killer.

So for this man to say "I tend to believe..." is not surprising.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions re: solo mission trips. When I was digging around in the church's past newsletters, it struck me that, with the exception of RS, most of the ministerial staff is interim or temporary. I was wondering if somehow he managed to manipulate the mission trip so he could go alone since there didn't seem to be any regular or permanent person to act as a supervisor to RS. It would be much harder for him to flee to Russia if there were others from the church accompanying him.

:welcome: PatEl! :welcome:

Interesting points you brought up here!

:seeya:

 

[Jewels53]

My thoughts on going to Germany, is you can't arrest someone for saying they are going to another country. You can only arrest them if they act on it, such as going to the airport and getting your ticket and then proceeding to the the line.

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

My thoughts on going to Germany, is you can't arrest someone for saying they are going to another country. You can only arrest them if they act on it, such as going to the airport and getting your ticket and then proceeding to the the line.

JMO

I agree...

It seems like LE moved in when Shahan was in the "no going back" position...

JMO

 

[killarney rose]

killarney_rose, I agree. I also think his attorneys will appeal and manage to get him out on bond because he can say he wasn't trying to flee since he made the trip known publicly.

I also find it interesting that the current interim pastor <modsnip> worked with RS for 10 yrs in the past at another church and the best he could say was, "I tend to believe that he's innocent."

<modsnip>

One thing you must understand is what a politically charged position a minister is in. Similar to- but on a much smaller scale- than the position an actual politician is in. Their every word is parsed. Churches have 'split' into irreparable factions over things much, much less inflammatory than whether the current pastor think a member of the staff is a killer.

So for this man to say "I tend to believe..." is not surprising.

I totally agree. Seen it happen myself. I also noticed that most of the staff at FBC are interim, this church is most likely going through some type of reorganization, regardless of the reasons. To have this situation come at a time of weakness, is not good.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I'm fairly certain that this congregation is suffering mightily over this situation. And I'm sure RS has his supporters...and detractors.

 

[PatEl]

I'm fairly certain that this congregation is suffering mightily over this situation. And I'm sure RS has his supporters...and detractors.

Oh, I totally agree. And if pastorpk is representative, RS has some very good friends and solid support. But if RS is guilty (and LE seems to think he is and has enough evidence to prove it), I was wondering if he was exploiting his situation at a church during a time of change and uncertainty to his benefit.

 

[fran]

Affidavit accuses ex-Homewood pastor Richard Shahan of cutting, stabbing wife to death

An affidavit released to the public Friday accuses former Homewood pastor Richard Shahan of cutting and stabbing his wife to death at the couple's home last year.

more at link .......... http://www.abc3340.com/story/24417812/richard-shahan

 

[Kensie]

Alabama is a death penalty state. If Richard is convicted of this crime, he may get the death penalty. This whole situation is so sad. Whether Karen was killed in a moment of rage or it was premeditated, it is so sad for so many people. So many lives destroyed.

On a side note, Amy Bishop killed 3 people in Huntsville, AL, pleaded guilty and got life in prison.

 

[Sulamith]

killarney_rose, I agree. I also think his attorneys will appeal and manage to get him out on bond because he can say he wasn't trying to flee since he made the trip known publicly.

I also find it interesting that the current interim pastor <modsnip> worked with RS for 10 yrs in the past at another church and the best he could say was, "I tend to believe that he's innocent."

<modsnip>

One thing you must understand is what a politically charged position a minister is in. Similar to- but on a much smaller scale- than the position an actual politician is in. Their every word is parsed. Churches have 'split' into irreparable factions over things much, much less inflammatory than whether the current pastor think a member of the staff is a killer.

So for this man to say "I tend to believe..." is not surprising.

BBM You got that right! I lived in Southern Utah for a year!

 

[SmoothOperator]

Just had a minute to check in to see any new updates, and I downloaded the arrest warrant/affidavit that was linked to upthread..

I wanted to hear others opinions on the part of the warrant speaking about the death was caused by stabbing and cutting the victim "with an unknown object".. Did this strike anyone else as odd?.. It may just be me, but I'm thinking back on the multitude of arrest warrants I've read over the years, and honestly there have been cases where the actual weapon used to inflict a stabbing death has been missing, not located by LE after the crime was committed.. But even still in the warrants/affidavits it has stated such things as, a single blade weapon was used to inflict the fatal stab wounds on the victim.. Or a serrated blade was used to inflict the cuts/stabs on the victim..or double edge blade was used, etc, etc..and/or a myriad of other such descriptors regarding the weapon used in a murder..

So, as I said, while it is not at all unusual for a perpetrator to take with them the murder weapon and hide, destroy, conceal it thus leaving no murder weapon behind to be found by investigators..nonetheless even without having the actual weapon that inflicted the lethal wounds on a victim..they do however still use various different ways of describing the weapon used in court docs such as warrants/affidavits..

So, that's why I guess I find it a bit odd that here we have a warrant/affidavit that states, the death was caused by stabbing and cutting the victim with an unknown object.

What are others thoughts/opinions on this particular detail?

TiA to anyone who has any thoughts on this one way or another(as in, even if they see , or interpret this differently than I do)

 

[Sulamith]

Just had a minute to check in to see any new updates, and I downloaded the arrest warrant/affidavit that was linked to upthread..

I wanted to hear others opinions on the part of the warrant speaking about the death was caused by stabbing and cutting the victim "with an unknown object".. Did this strike anyone else as odd?.. It may just be me, but I'm thinking back on the multitude of arrest warrants I've read over the years, and honestly there have been cases where the actual weapon used to inflict a stabbing death has been missing, not located by LE after the crime was committed.. But even still in the warrants/affidavits it has stated such things as, a single blade weapon was used to inflict the fatal stab wounds on the victim.. Or a serrated blade was used to inflict the cuts/stabs on the victim..or double edge blade was used, etc, etc..and/or a myriad of other such descriptors regarding the weapon used in a murder..

So, as I said, while it is not at all unusual for a perpetrator to take with them the murder weapon and hide, destroy, conceal it thus leaving no murder weapon behind to be found by investigators..nonetheless even without having the actual weapon that inflicted the lethal wounds on a victim..they do however still use various different ways of describing the weapon used in court docs such as warrants/affidavits..

So, that's why I guess I find it a bit odd that here we have a warrant/affidavit that states, the death was caused by stabbing and cutting the victim with an unknown object.

What are others thoughts/opinions on this particular detail?

TiA to anyone who has any thoughts on this one way or another(as in, even if they see , or interpret this differently than I do)

This is the first arrest warrant I have ever read. My thoughts are that LE did not find the murder weapon but the findings of the autopsy would indicate the nature of the wounds. (blunt vs serrated knife, glass shard) As far as I know, the autopsy report has not been made public. I would like to see that.

On another note, how in the heck did Travis Alexander's autopsy report and crime scene photos become public? That was strange IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

My thoughts on going to Germany, is you can't arrest someone for saying they are going to another country. You can only arrest them if they act on it, such as going to the airport and getting your ticket and then proceeding to the the line.

JMO

Yes. A bit like not being able to arrest a shoplifter while walking around the store after seeing them slip something into their pocket .. until they leave the store.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just had a minute to check in to see any new updates, and I downloaded the arrest warrant/affidavit that was linked to upthread..

I wanted to hear others opinions on the part of the warrant speaking about the death was caused by stabbing and cutting the victim "with an unknown object".. Did this strike anyone else as odd?.. It may just be me, but I'm thinking back on the multitude of arrest warrants I've read over the years, and honestly there have been cases where the actual weapon used to inflict a stabbing death has been missing, not located by LE after the crime was committed.. But even still in the warrants/affidavits it has stated such things as, a single blade weapon was used to inflict the fatal stab wounds on the victim.. Or a serrated blade was used to inflict the cuts/stabs on the victim..or double edge blade was used, etc, etc..and/or a myriad of other such descriptors regarding the weapon used in a murder..

So, as I said, while it is not at all unusual for a perpetrator to take with them the murder weapon and hide, destroy, conceal it thus leaving no murder weapon behind to be found by investigators..nonetheless even without having the actual weapon that inflicted the lethal wounds on a victim..they do however still use various different ways of describing the weapon used in court docs such as warrants/affidavits..

So, that's why I guess I find it a bit odd that here we have a warrant/affidavit that states, the death was caused by stabbing and cutting the victim with an unknown object.

What are others thoughts/opinions on this particular detail?

TiA to anyone who has any thoughts on this one way or another(as in, even if they see , or interpret this differently than I do)

I thought that it was a little odd to say an unknown object as opposed to an unknown weapon. Does this mean that the weapon was not necessarily a knife/blade?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I was curious about the "unknown object", as well, ...as LE seems to often recognize the marks on the body (sorry) as being caused by specific "weapons"... Serrated, straight, knife, maybe razor blade... Etc...

Additionally... Regarding the affidavit...

I am curious why it is specifically stated there was stabbing... And CUTTING...

I wonder how these two are differentiated...

JMO

 

[CountryGirl]

I was curious about the "unknown object", as well, ...as LE seems to often recognize the marks on the body (sorry) as being caused by specific "weapons"... Serrated, straight, knife, maybe razor blade... Etc...

Additionally... Regarding the affidavit...

I am curious why it is specifically stated there was stabbing... And CUTTING...

I wonder how these two are differentiated...

JMO

Stabbed and throat cut is my guess.