AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

[HistoryProfessor]

I personally think it was premeditated. He came up with alibi and had trip planned, which isn't unusual for him in ministry, but it sure provides his way out and to no extradition once he made it to Russia. I'm sorry no one married that long would be ready to go 6 months after spouse's murder with a killer still on the loose. Just don't buy it. I think he's had a double life for a while. Can't wait to hear about info the LE has when trial starts!!

I also think as others have mentioned how odd that Karen's co-workers reported so fast when she didn't show up for work...That puzzles me that someone knows secrets and maybe just can't say.

 

[txsvicki]

Women do tell all their good friends at work husband troubles that they would never tell family. Women I've worked with did it and so did I. We all knew the skeletons in husbands' closets from hitting wives, cheating, online cheating. They were all older men, too.

 

[DTLJ]

I personally think it was premeditated. He came up with alibi and had trip planned, which isn't unusual for him in ministry, but it sure provides his way out and to no extradition once he made it to Russia. I'm sorry no one married that long would be ready to go 6 months after spouse's murder with a killer still on the loose. Just don't buy it. I think he's had a double life for a while. Can't wait to hear about info the LE has when trial starts!!

I also think as others have mentioned how odd that Karen's co-workers reported so fast when she didn't show up for work...That puzzles me that someone knows secrets and maybe just can't say.

The very fact that they requested, from the police, a "well-check" told me that her friends knew something that something was not right. I've called for "well-checks" for my family and friends, and both times, I knew that they might be in danger. A woman of that age, is probably self-sufficient and independent - or one would think. If I had been her co-worker and knew nothing of her family life, I wouldn't have called for a well-check...I wouldn't have thought it was necessary. :facepalm:

 

[LambChop]

Some people would do that if Karen was always at work on time and if she were not coming to work would always notify someone before her shift started. If it were unlike her to just not show up they would be concerned and responsibly act on that concern.

From what I've read there have been no reports from her friends that she had anything but the highest regard for her husband and spoke lovingly of him. We do not have much to go on even though LE said they have reason to believe they have found the motive we still do not know what that motive could have been. Hopefully we will have more information this week. jmo

 

[Fairy1]

Well, we really don't know much right now, do we? All we really can do is speculate. I'm giving LE the benefit of the doubt....for now. We shall see soon enough what evidence they have.

 

[Sulamith]

Women do tell all their good friends at work husband troubles that they would never tell family. Women I've worked with did it and so did I. We all knew the skeletons in husbands' closets from hitting wives, cheating, online cheating. They were all older men, too.

I didn't. I was employed for ten years at one job and had a couple of co-workers that I could call my friends. Gals that I hung around with outside of the office. I never told them about the really serious crap my husband was doing. It was awful and I was too embarrassed to talk about it. Maybe confiding in friends is something young people do. IDK. I remember what I was doing when JFK was
assassinated, that is how old I am.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Since I am on WS, I have never read an less unloving obituary. That says it all, I think.

http://obits.al.com/obituaries/birmingham/obituary.aspx?pid=166050997

 

[Tugela]

I believe they will. What we don't know is if LE tried to contact RS's attorney and advise him that they did not want him leaving town because they may have more questions. That does not alter their investigation and LE is within their rights to ask him not to leave at this time. The Chief admitted they knew RS planned on leaving so when did they know and why wasn't a warrant issued before RS scheduled his flight. I don't think Homeland Security waits until you are ready to board a plane to alert them, at least I hope not. I would tend to believe they might have known when he purchased his ticket and it was immediately flagged. This may be why the warrant was issued on the 31st. Unless, of course, Homeland Security could not be notified until the warrant was issued. If that is the case it seems to me LE cut it really close.

The fact that LE considered RS as fleeing and would stop him from getting bail becomes more interesting as to how this actually went down. Hopefully the judge will allow a camera in during the hearing. I'd like to hear the charges first hand and what the judge has to say rather than hear it second hand through a reporter. jmo

I think part of their strategy for doing that is to tie him up for as long as possible in hearings/grand juries etc etc while they continue their investigation. They could likely keep that going for quite a while. They probably figured that once he left the country, getting him back would be very difficult, so they did this instead to buy themselves a bit more time.

 

[Tugela]

And if LE really needed him back, given the fact that the grand jury is secret, they could have gone to Germany while they knew he was there and brought him back from Germany. He would only be able to work in Kazakhstan for short periods of time. Isn't that correct?

No, they would need to request an extradition, and to do that they would have to convince a german court that they had reasonable evidence to make the charge. That might be difficult to do if they have primarily circumstantial evidence.

To get some idea of the difficulties, look at the results of the attempt to extradite Roman Polanksi from Switzerland a few years back.

 

[Tugela]

My thoughts on going to Germany, is you can't arrest someone for saying they are going to another country. You can only arrest them if they act on it, such as going to the airport and getting your ticket and then proceeding to the the line.

JMO

You can't arrest them on acting on it either. In this case they chose to move less than 24 hours before he was due to leave, so it was not a case of him fleeing. He had already left for his trip when they drew their warrant up, so there is no reasonable way for him to have known about it. Fleeing requires knowledge.

There is no reason why they could not have issued the warrant weeks earlier if they felt that way, but the very last minute nature of it all suggests that the case against him is very weak, and he would not have been charged if he had not been leaving. It sounds like a Hail Mary case for the prosecution, but we will see.

 

[Tugela]

Yes. A bit like not being able to arrest a shoplifter while walking around the store after seeing them slip something into their pocket .. until they leave the store.

No its not. In the case of the shoplifter you don't know they are not going to pay until the leave the store, that is why it is done like that.

 

[Tugela]

Two questions, Shahan has held a job since his arrest? 1st paragraph

Are you supposed to let a defendants attorney's know ahead of time you plan on arresting them? 2nd paragraph

I guess I need to follow more arrest! :scared:

The reason for them harping on that is to counteract the prosecutions position in a bail hearing that he is a flight risk because he had already attempted to flee. If he was unaware of the warrant and had the trip planned long in advanced, and they can show that, it would undermine the "flight risk" argument.

 

[Tugela]

To me it is clear why Shahan is said to have attempted to flee justice.

He was told by LE to ‘stay put’. He chose not to stay put. Simple as that.



http://www.wate.com/story/24347730/alabama-pastor-arrested-in-nashville


LE had no obligation to inform him or his attorney of their progress in the investigation.

If Shahan and his attorney want to skirt around the issue with comments like ‘it was common knowledge that Shahan was leaving’ and ‘LE didn’t tell us there was a warrant’, then that seems like a weak defense to me. They evidently did not consult directly with LE about the overseas mission, which is what they should have done to geniunely ensure Shahan wasn’t going to be detained at the airport.

They took a chance, and it failed. IMO

Now they are taking a chance on a flimsy $30,000 murder bond. We'll see if that fails too.

He was not an official suspect though. POI have no obligation to remain in town and LE have no authority to ask/demand that they do. They can't just arrest and charge them simply because they leave, it has to be backed up with evidence relevant to the case that is enough for probable cause to go to trial.

Whether bail is granted or not will depend on how strong the evidence is IMO. If it is weak, the judge might decide that the chance of going to trial or getting a conviction is low, then bail will probably be granted at some point. Judges generally don't make people rot in jail for a year or two if the outcome is likely do be a dismissal or acquittal.

 

[Tugela]

I personally think it was premeditated. He came up with alibi and had trip planned, which isn't unusual for him in ministry, but it sure provides his way out and to no extradition once he made it to Russia. I'm sorry no one married that long would be ready to go 6 months after spouse's murder with a killer still on the loose. Just don't buy it. I think he's had a double life for a while. Can't wait to hear about info the LE has when trial starts!!

I also think as others have mentioned how odd that Karen's co-workers reported so fast when she didn't show up for work...That puzzles me that someone knows secrets and maybe just can't say.

It could be because they knew he was out of town and consequently her failure to show up at work was odd. If her husband was gone, who else would they call to find out what was up?

 

[Tugela]

Some people would do that if Karen was always at work on time and if she were not coming to work would always notify someone before her shift started. If it were unlike her to just not show up they would be concerned and responsibly act on that concern.

From what I've read there have been no reports from her friends that she had anything but the highest regard for her husband and spoke lovingly of him. We do not have much to go on even though LE said they have reason to believe they have found the motive we still do not know what that motive could have been. Hopefully we will have more information this week. jmo

Domestic motives in an otherwise tranquil home are usually money or rival love interests, those are the sorts of things which can generate irrational anger in a relationship. A betrayal of trust of some sort. It doesn't sound like these folks had any money to speak of, so that would leave jealousy, from one or the other, as the most likely motive.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Since I am on WS, I have never read an less unloving obituary. That says it all, I think.

http://obits.al.com/obituaries/birmingham/obituary.aspx?pid=166050997

You're right.....it's straight to the point, isn't it.

 

[killarney rose]

Since I am on WS, I have never read an less unloving obituary. That says it all, I think.

http://obits.al.com/obituaries/birmingham/obituary.aspx?pid=166050997

Not necessarily. Obits are very expensive to print. They are charged by the line. There is usually only one written, even tho it might be published in more than one place. There seems to be a recurring theme of money issues with them, so it could be something as simple as needing to keep it short as possible while including all the info.

 

[LambChop]

You're right.....it's straight to the point, isn't it.

It may have been done by the funeral home. I know they did the one for my husband and it was pretty standard. I just provided the information and the funeral director did the rest. When you are in a state of shock you aren't always prepared to do something more personal. It's possible because LE wanted to talk with him that someone from the church took care of that for him. jmo

 

[killarney rose]

In every death that I have been a part of making the arrangements for, the funeral home has always written the obit after asking the basic info from us. Karen's seems pretty standard for that.

 

[Quiet Time]

In every death that I have been a part of making the arrangements for, the funeral home has always written the obit after asking the basic info from us. Karen's seems pretty standard for that.

Yes, i agree. But , they still could of elaborated on her special interests/hobbies. Or even mentioned where she met her husband and if they travelled together, ie: church missions, etc. ...imo