Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[linette]

The footage saddens me so much. Alone out there for so long and & such a sad ending.

Yes, and we can only be grateful that she was indeed found.

 

[linette]

Also Erin Edwards the reporter says her body has only been retrieved in the last hour. I am assuming the 7 nightly news is on at 6.00 or 6.30 meaning her body was winched up probably close to 5.30pm

Yep, I do remember that being said a lot, that it was 5.30pm before they could actually remove her body from the scene.

 

[DrWatson]

On another area of interest(to me anyway): Have heard that the accused's daddy (NBC) has a hearing aid. He wouldn't sleep with it in so I wonder if mummy Elaine is the person who took the face-time phone call at 12.30am?

Hearing aids are worn for a wide variety of hearing losses. For someone of that age, and with previous exposure to gunfire, he would almost certainly have just an industrial-type deafness. That is mainly high frequency hearing loss, with virtually normal hearing up to a particular frequency. They have trouble hearing speech against a background noise, or discerning dialogue on TV, for example, and in particular have trouble hearing things like an "sss" sound which sounds the same as "ffff" or even completely inaudible.

The main point, though, is that their hearing up to the frequency where the loss begins can be completely normal. Imagine you're listening to the world through cotton wool - everything somewhat muffled, but in terms of sensitivity, especially to lower frequencies, there is no problem.

The point of all that is that most people who have that type of hearing deficit can hear a phone ringing without any problem at all. And with the phone to their ear, they can hear perfectly well. Also, with a Facetime call, it would be on speakerphone, which tends to be quite clear too.

The main worry for a lot of people with high frequency hearing loss (drifting a wee bit off topic here) is that they can't hear things like the piezo beeper on electronic devices - eg the oven, the washing machine. And more concerningly - they can't hear the high frequency beeping of smoke alarms.

I've long wondered just WHY smoke alarms use such a high frequency, given that a fair proportion of the population can't hear them. I assume it's the cost factor - piezo beepers by their nature are high frequency. To produce a lower frequency within audible range would need more circuitry.

Sorry - drifted a bit there. But the main point is that just because NBC wears one or two hearing aids does not mean that he wouldn't be perfectly capable of hearing a phone and answering it.

 

[Fuskier]

I actually dont see that visual at all, they way I saw it (I watched it twice ot check) is at 2.45 - 2.50, it only shows the stretcher on the mud, then in mid air...it looks like it is on the concrete base, but it isn't, it's in the process of being winched

Respectfully disagree Minni. The visual evidence is there for all to see I'm afraid. Try stopping the video at 2.47, 2.48 and 2.49. MOO

 

[minni]

On the 30th, it set at 5:17pm, Last light is at 5:41pm.
However the location of the bridge is at the bottom of a gully (Ugly Gully in fact), so the shadows would have no longer been cast at maybe 4:45-5:00, but still light through to 5:40.

Thanks Wakeskate..it makes sense now. the news is on at 6pm with Kay McGrath, so that footage in the video indicates she was winched up between 5 and 5.30.

And the other two photos with the stretcher on the bridge and 7 or so officers etc looking around are taken mid afternoon, in the middle of preparation to moving her once the forensics and other work had been done.

The post I made yesterday that brought about this conversation, was that immediately above where the stretcher is sitting on the mud, waiting to be winched, well that is the exact spot that we have all seen what we thought may be Allison in the mud. It is the EXACT spot also, that I asked Mani to take more photos because I could see the imprint in there.

I have to say that I believe she was found in the mud now. But this begs the question of the tides, and whether the suction of that sticky mud would hold her there, if fully submerged. at high tide the water goes up quite high and over that concrete base I think, so it wouldnt hold her there at all, she had to have come into Kholo at the last high tide? or could she have been lodged or snagged somewhere near the mouth of LUC for days, but just not seen?

It is so shocking to think of her there like that...How on earth did GBC sit there, day in and day out, knowing she was all alone out there? It is incomprehensible, what a heartless man

 

[minni]

Respectfully disagree Minni. The visual evidence is there for all to see I'm afraid. Try stopping the video at 2.47, 2.48 and 2.49. MOO

ok, I'll have another look

 

[linette]

Hearing aids are worn for a wide variety of hearing losses. For someone of that age, and with previous exposure to gunfire, he would almost certainly have just an industrial-type deafness. That is mainly high frequency hearing loss, with virtually normal hearing up to a particular frequency. They have trouble hearing speech against a background noise, or discerning dialogue on TV, for example, and in particular have trouble hearing things like an "sss" sound which sounds the same as "ffff" or even completely inaudible.

The main point, though, is that their hearing up to the frequency where the loss begins can be completely normal. Imagine you're listening to the world through cotton wool - everything somewhat muffled, but in terms of sensitivity, especially to lower frequencies, there is no problem.

The point of all that is that most people who have that type of hearing deficit can hear a phone ringing without any problem at all. And with the phone to their ear, they can hear perfectly well. Also, with a Facetime call, it would be on speakerphone, which tends to be quite clear too.

The main worry for a lot of people with high frequency hearing loss (drifting a wee bit off topic here) is that they can't hear things like the piezo beeper on electronic devices - eg the oven, the washing machine. And more concerningly - they can't hear the high frequency beeping of smoke alarms.

I've long wondered just WHY smoke alarms use such a high frequency, given that a fair proportion of the population can't hear them. I assume it's the cost factor - piezo beepers by their nature are high frequency. To produce a lower frequency within audible range would need more circuitry.

Sorry - drifted a bit there. But the main point is that just because NBC wears one or two hearing aids does not mean that he wouldn't be perfectly capable of hearing a phone and answering it.

That's very interesting. So he could have heard the phone ring... maybe.
Also, I heard last week how there is a very strong push to have smoke alarms on a lower frequency...well, have them making a lower sound instead of the high pitched one they use now. They have found that a lot of people, esp children will not wake to that sound. They even tested it on people who were drunk, they wouldn't wake to the high pitched, but they could easily hear the lower one.

 

[minni]

haha Fuskier, either you need glasses or I do!! I looked again (despite having to listen to GBC do his whiny camera voice again) and it is honestly never on the concrete base. It is IN MOTION for the whole 3 or 4 seconds

 

[DrWatson]

That's very interesting. So he could have heard the phone ring... maybe.
Also, I heard last week how there is a very strong push to have smoke alarms on a lower frequency...well, have them making a lower sound instead of the high pitched one they use now. They have found that a lot of people, esp children will not wake to that sound. They even tested it on people who were drunk, they wouldn't wake to the high pitched, but they could easily hear the lower one.

Almost certainly he would have been able to hear the phone. My father, who is VERY deaf at the age of 98, can still hear the phone ring, and actually takes his hearing aids out to answer the phone. I also have a friend who has a condition called otosclerosis, and is quite profoundly deaf at ALL frequencies, not just the higher ones. Yet he can still hear and use the phone without his hearing aids in. In fact, with them in, the squealing he gets by covering them with the phone is unbearable to him, so he takes them out too.

Interesting that you've heard about moves to lower the frequency of smoke detectors. I've not heard that, but it has concerned me for years - mainly because of my Dad who lives alone in the UK. He has smoke detectors, but with his aids out, and putting the detectors onto test beep, he can't hear a thing. So we got them hooked into a monitored alarm service, and if one goes off, they ring - you guessed it - his phone. Which he CAN hear..

I have no doubts that NBC would have typical "gunfire" or industrial deafness, that gets worse with age, and would have absolutely normal hearing up to 2, 3, or 4 KHz at least.

 

[linette]

Almost certainly he would have been able to hear the phone. My father, who is VERY deaf at the age of 98, can still hear the phone ring, and actually takes his hearing aids out to answer the phone. I also have a friend who has a condition called otosclerosis, and is quite profoundly deaf at ALL frequencies, not just the higher ones. Yet he can still hear and use the phone without his hearing aids in. In fact, with them in, the squealing he gets by covering them with the phone is unbearable to him, so he takes them out too.

Interesting that you've heard about moves to lower the frequency of smoke detectors. I've not heard that, but it has concerned me for years - mainly because of my Dad who lives alone in the UK. He has smoke detectors, but with his aids out, and putting the detectors onto test beep, he can't hear a thing. So we got them hooked into a monitored alarm service, and if one goes off, they ring - you guessed it - his phone. Which he CAN hear..

I have no doubts that NBC would have typical "gunfire" or industrial deafness, that gets worse with age, and would have absolutely normal hearing up to 2, 3, or 4 KHz at least.

Re the smoke alarms: It was on one of our shows here {actually an Aussie one} but I can't for the life of me remember which one. I have a feeling it was in the morning though. It was quite detailed. So at least they are recognising it at last!!

 

[Mani]

Sleuthers, just noticed an important detail about the placement of the body on the stretcher present in this footage which gives a clue about the location of the body. At 2.45-2.50 you will see visual evidence that the stretcher is placed up on the concrete base between the two first pylons. It is then moved down onto the mud in preparation for winching up to the road. In a subsequent video, the winching happened from this spot in the mud. My opinion only.

I have just had a look - I can only see the forensic team standing down in the mud. I can see the stretcher when it is in the air and it looks like it is between the pylons. Is that what you mean? MOO

 

[alioop]

When the prosecution team gives the defense team the information tomorrow where will it happen ? Xxxx

I expect that the prosecution will either deliver it to the defence lawyers office or the lawyer will go and collect it from the prosecution's office. It will be low key I expect, just delivery or collection. They would have been in touch in the last few days to make arrangements that suited both teams.

 

[Mani]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24711&d=1342823193
this picture here is taken at around 2.00pm in the afternoon...the sun is to the right of the bridge...maybe upstream towards the scout camp, where Kholo turns? the shadow from the sign might help to compare the shadows in the photos we have been discussing? It doesnt seem quite as long as the shadows cast by the people on the bridge...so maybe 3pm??

The one thing that stands out for me from that day is the news reports about Mt Crosby Road being closed, and they extended into the late afternoon and then I heard the full story on the evening news.IMO

 

[linette]

I expect that the prosecution will either deliver it to the defence lawyers office or the lawyer will go and collect it from the prosecution's office. It will be low key I expect, just delivery or collection. They would have been in touch in the last few days to make arrangements that suited both teams.

Just wondering who would be responsible for any 'leaking' of info which we often see. Am I right in assuming the defence wouldn't leak anything other than what appeared as circumstantial?

 

[minni]

The one thing that stands out for me from that day is the news reports about Mt Crosby Road being closed, and they extended into the late afternoon and then I heard the full story on the evening news.IMO

thats right. They would have been there from at least 11.30 am - 12pm until well after dark I would think, maybe 7pm even? if they retrieved Allison's body by 5.30, there would probably be a fair bit left to do still, before everyone could go home or leave. IMO

 

[alioop]

Just wondering who would be responsible for any 'leaking' of info which we often see. Am I right in assuming the defence wouldn't leak anything other than what appeared as circumstantial?

My feeling is neither side will "leak" much if any info at all. We will just pick up snippets of info from these court appearances leading up to the committal. At the committal is where we will hear lots of information. Most committals are open to the public unless they relate to an accused minor or if have graphic details of sexual assault, neither of which I think apply here.

 

[minni]

My feeling is neither side will "leak" much if any info at all. We will just pick up snippets of info from these court appearances leading up to the committal. At the committal is where we will hear lots of information. Most committals are open to the public unless they relate to an accused minor or if have graphic details of sexual assault, neither of which I think apply here.

Thanks Alioop. The september 9 thing...is that just a mention? when is the committal, or is it not set yet? what is the hearing? is it the committal? sorry, haha I dont know what is what!

 

[Makara]

Sleuthers, just noticed an important detail about the placement of the body on the stretcher present in this footage which gives a clue about the location of the body. At 2.45-2.50 you will see visual evidence that the stretcher is placed up on the concrete base between the two first pylons. It is then moved down onto the mud in preparation for winching up to the road. In a subsequent video, the winching happened from this spot in the mud. My opinion only.

Fuskier, below are screen caps from the video. They are in sequence from 2:44to 2:50 and show the stretcher being lifted from the 2:44 position. There is nowhere in the video that you see the stretcher placed on the concrete base and then moved down on the mud. IMO Allison's body was placed on the stretcher at the 2:44 position (where she was found). It's also interesting to note the police on the bridge hauling the cable attached to the stretcher. I wonder what must have been going through their minds at this critical recovery stage.

2:44


2:47


2:48


2:49


2:50

 

[they'll get you]

Thanks Alioop. The september 9 thing...is that just a mention? when is the committal, or is it not set yet? what is the hearing? is it the committal? sorry, haha I dont know what is what!

Yay Minnie ! Love love all those questions , september 9 ! bring them on cause we all are so ready for our sweet Allison's justice.
The absolute rot that came from that family. Oh running from the cameras like some film star, quivering chin of a 'little bit hurt' fool, b#stards that wouldn't help the search. All pretenders. The cops aren't stupid. Can you imagine the first morning when the grub called the police. Quivering, a bit little bit hurt, extremely nervous, cut and bitten all over, oh please! Yes bring on September 9th cause I'm getting angry:banghead::jail:


Poss back yet?

 

[linette]

Yay Minnie ! Love love all those questions , september 9 ! bring them on cause we all are so ready for our sweet Allison's justice.
The absolute rot that came from that family. Oh running from the cameras like some film star, quivering chin of a 'little bit hurt' fool, b#stards that wouldn't help the search. All pretenders. The cops aren't stupid. Can you imagine the first morning when the grub called the police. Quivering, a bit little bit hurt, extremely nervous, cut and bitten all over, oh please! Yes bring on September 9th cause I'm getting angry:banghead::jail:

haha, they wouldn't even make it into a B grade movie. Someone should have told them "If you're going to act, then do it convincingly."