Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#13

[aa9511]

As I said earlier, I think I have a higher opinion of the competence of Perugian police. Fingerprinting is what the police do when they're investigating a burglary.

That still doesn't mean that we know they fingerprinted the lawyer's office.

 

[aa9511]

I did miss when AK admitted a previous 'prank' against a friend using ski-mask and faking a robbery :banghead: <modsnip>

What did everyone think about that? I almost fell off my computer chair.

Do tell.

I think that is exactly the reason the murder occured - prank gone wrong. Accident happened. Then they had to cover for the accident.

 

[aa9511]

I don't understand this comment. If you mean, why would he carry broken glass into another room, I have no idea. Why would he line up tools on top of a briefcase?

I mean, handling broken glass. You were saying he was stacking glass neatly, etc.. Broken glass is not the same as tools.

 

[aa9511]

IIRC EVERYONE, including the step-dad said the previous 'prank' wasn't true. I do understand why they would say that but it might have worked out better admitting it and saying "see, nobody got hurt". No way IMO her lawyers would have ever let her admit that... she seems to be on the loose. At least for the time being.

They denied it for a reason. That reason being, IMO, they didn't want the details of it getting out. Because the details might match up with what actually happened at the cottage, re: how the prank got started, what it involved, and also similarities with staging burglary.

 

[sherlockh]

There are prints consistent with Knox's 37-38 shoe size is on the pillow. There are footprints consistent with Guede shoe on the pillow, and there is a hand print on that pillow. Guede either stepped on the pillow and then touched it, or more likely moved the pillow with his bloody hand, put it on the floor, and then stepped on the pillow.

*Snipped*. Why would Guede put a pillow on the floor to step on it? I think Meredith was on her bed when they came in, and a first reaction was to use the pillow so it could have been on the floor when Guede stepped on it. There are half prints on the pillow, which logically must mean there are half prints on the floor. Maybe one of those prints by the bed can be matched up with a half print on the pillow? In that case you would know exactly the position of the pillow. There are no other prints in the room which give an indication where Guede stepped on the pillow so that is my best guess. AFAIK nobody ever tried to match up the floor prints with the pillow prints.

 

[aa9511]

Hey otto. I remember a long time ago I mentioned on PMF that her neck wound looked just like a thumb scratch when she (or Meredith) pulled up a ski mask.

Put one of those mask on... then quickly use your thumb to take it off your head.
Or just make the motions and you will see what I mean.

That is EXACTLY the kind of scratch/wound it looks like to me.

Wow yes that is a very good theory.

 

[quesarita]

I mean, handling broken glass. You were saying he was stacking glass neatly, etc.. Broken glass is not the same as tools.

The glass was laid out in the copier room and the tools were laid out on the briefcase. I don't know why.

 

[otto]

Yes, that is what I meant - I do not see why either of those would require removing gloves, especially when the purpose of the gloves would be precisely to avoid leaving fingerprints/evidence of himself (more on this below). But as to the above, as for the former (digital penetration), I do not see why it would be necessary to remove gloves. Further, I do not know why that would even occur - as why would he digitally penetrate, when he could just vaginally penetrate with his penis (sorry I do not know the formal term)? I do not see what arousal he would get from digitally penetrating. I would assume that most rapists would go immediately to whatever would bring him the most arousal.

The semen - there is no verified semen. But if hypothesize that it was semen, and if we hypothesize that it was Rudy, and then deduce that it was masturbation, then yes I can see that he would remove gloves for that, although not necessary.

I still don't understand why the rapist would not just vagiinally or anally penetrate with his penis and ejaculate in the interior. Why the need for digital penetration and then masturbation, when I would assume that a rapist would fully violate the victim's body for his full arousal?

But as for the gloves, the entire purpose of him wearing gloves in the first place would be because he didn't want to leave evidence of himself during the burglary. So I would assume that during the sexual assault, he would not suddenly choose to remove gloves, seeing as how now with a murder and sexual assault, it would be even more imperative for him to not leave evidence. Especially direct contact with the victim's body.

Sorry for the sensitive discussion, but it is an aspect of this case.

Knox must have been wearing gloves too, as there's no trace of her anywhere.

 

[otto]

I mean, handling broken glass. You were saying he was stacking glass neatly, etc.. Broken glass is not the same as tools.

Oddly, the broken glass was stacked, or rather lined up side by side, in the same pattern that one would expect if the exterior shutter was closed when the window was broken.

If the rock was thrown inside Filomina's room, from between the desk and the door, it could hit the corner of the shutter and the window with a rebound. If the exterior shutter was closed, then the glass will line up in a neat row that is now being attributed to OCD.

Has Guede been lining anything up since the murder? When he was arrested, was he reorganizing anything? Is there any other evidence of obsessive compulsive disorder?

 

[otto]

They denied it for a reason. That reason being, IMO, they didn't want the details of it getting out. Because the details might match up with what actually happened at the cottage, re: how the prank got started, what it involved, and also similarities with staging burglary.

Prank gone wrong, similar staged burglary ... just need to think about this for a minute. April 1, 2007, there was a prank between Knox and her roommate. The prank involved convincing a couple of friends to participate in a bedroom attack and staged break in ... a prank according to Knox. The initial stories, which may not be true, claim that costumes and head coverings were used ... but that may not be true. What is true is that the roommate was upset.

Imagine Meredith, confronted with one of Knox's pranks ... Knox and her knife carrying friends in the bedroom. Fun and Games interpreted as danger, meaning flight or fight. According to her father, Meredith would have fought hard. That didn't go over as planned ... Meredith, perhaps attacked by three persons that suddenly wanted to subdue her as she reacted badly to a bad prank. It's not a stretch to believe that she was struggling with people with knives and she was fatally injured during that struggle.

 

[aa9511]

To me, the fingerprint evidence is just mind-boggling. Amanda - 1 print even though she was the last person using the house. Even though she was supposedly using the house in the morning up until discovery of the body. We see Laura's door and Laura's bedroom has numerous prints all over (14), even though she hadn't been using the house for I believe 2 days? And Meredith - 16 prints. Filomena - 2- on account of her bedroom being cleaned. And Meredith, Laura, Amanda, and Filomena - out of the combined 4, only 1 fingerprint found in the entire kitchen/living area. So under Innocent theory, that would mean that Meredith/Laura's all activities were confined to their bedrooms and they never used the kitchen/living area. And furthermore, it would mean Filomena and Amanda did not really live there. Since someone (Raffaele) who didn't live there, had more fingerprints than either Filomena or Amanda. Even though we know that Amanda had just used the cottage that morning, by her own words. She had used her bedroom and the bathroom just earlier that morning. Also Amanda herself states she was using the kitchen the day before at the cottage for her pasta lunch, and Amanda herself states that Meredith was outside of her room because she was taking her clothes to the machines and she had a conversation with Meredith in the kitchen.

I think the evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. JMO.

 

[otto]

*Snipped*. Why would Guede put a pillow on the floor to step on it? I think Meredith was on her bed when they came in, and a first reaction was to use the pillow so it could have been on the floor when Guede stepped on it. There are half prints on the pillow, which logically must mean there are half prints on the floor. Maybe one of those prints by the bed can be matched up with a half print on the pillow? In that case you would know exactly the position of the pillow. There are no other prints in the room which give an indication where Guede stepped on the pillow so that is my best guess. AFAIK nobody ever tried to match up the floor prints with the pillow prints.

The pillow was found underneath Meredith. Could the prints on the pillow case indicate that Guede was pushing the pillow into a particular location with his foot? There are at least three prints in the upper left corner, and another print that is folded fabric or a smaller print. The prints on the pillow tell us that Guede wasn't just standing on the pillow. He moved his foot several times in the corner of the pillow case. Was he was changing directions, turning from here to there, or did he use his foot to push the upper left corner of the pillow underneath Meredith.

Or perhaps Knox did it ... put the pillow under Meredith to stage a sexual assault after Guede ran out the front door. There was a sexual assault, so how did that happen? Was that when Sollecito left his barefoot print in the bathroom and Knox left barefoot luminol revealed prints in the hallway ... did they leave Guede left in the bedroom while they scooted around on the bathmat?

 

[otto]

The glass was laid out in the copier room and the tools were laid out on the briefcase. I don't know why.

There's some discrepancy regarding the interpretation of the word "mat". As it turns out, the electronic translation says that glass was laid next to the mat in front of the computer. I don't think it was a copier room, but if it was a copier room, then the glass was found next to the mat in the copier room (nothing about a mouse, mat assumed to be on the floor).

Apparently, there is some interest in translating "mat" to "mouse pad". If we believe that the "mat" is a mouse pad, then we have the OCD problem of putting things in order, like an autistic child. If we believe that glass was at the edge of the mat under the computer desk, then there's nothing OCD about the glass at the Law Office either.

I'm confused about tools being lined up at the lawyer's office. What sort of tools did the lawyer have in his office? Did he have a hammer, or just a screw driver? What tools were lined up and where did they come from?

 

[sherlockh]

The pillow was found underneath Meredith. Could the prints on the pillow case indicate that Guede was pushing the pillow into a particular location with his foot? There are at least three prints in the upper left corner, and another print that is folded fabric or a smaller print. The prints on the pillow tell us that Guede wasn't just standing on the pillow. He moved his foot several times in the corner of the pillow case. Was he was changing directions, turning from here to there, or did he use his foot to push the upper left corner of the pillow underneath Meredith.

Or perhaps Knox did it ... put the pillow under Meredith to stage a sexual assault after Guede ran out the front door. There was a sexual assault, so how did that happen? Was that when Sollecito left his barefoot print in the bathroom and Knox left barefoot luminol revealed prints in the hallway ... did they leave Guede left in the bedroom while they scooted around on the bathmat?

The heel of his shoe is on the corner of the pillow. That is a strange way of pushing it The shoe prints on the floor however are the top of his shoe. So I was wondering if they could be matched up. If one matches up then you know where Guede stepped on the pillow.
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-04.html

 

[otto]

To me, the fingerprint evidence is just mind-boggling. Amanda - 1 print even though she was the last person using the house. Even though she was supposedly using the house in the morning up until discovery of the body. We see Laura's door and Laura's bedroom has numerous prints all over (14), even though she hadn't been using the house for I believe 2 days? And Meredith - 16 prints. Filomena - 2- on account of her bedroom being cleaned. And Meredith, Laura, Amanda, and Filomena - out of the combined 4, only 1 fingerprint found in the entire kitchen/living area. So under Innocent theory, that would mean that Meredith/Laura's all activities were confined to their bedrooms and they never used the kitchen/living area. And furthermore, it would mean Filomena and Amanda did not really live there. Since someone (Raffaele) who didn't live there, had more fingerprints than either Filomena or Amanda. Even though we know that Amanda had just used the cottage that morning, by her own words. She had used her bedroom and the bathroom just earlier that morning. Also Amanda herself states she was using the kitchen the day before at the cottage for her pasta lunch, and Amanda herself states that Meredith was outside of her room because she was taking her clothes to the machines and she had a conversation with Meredith in the kitchen.

I think the evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. JMO.

It is inexplicable that the bedrooms of Knox and Filomina are stripped of fingerprints, moreso since those two bedrooms, in addition to Meredith's bedroom, are of particular interest in the murder. It's peculiar that Sollecito touched Laura's door. His story would be that after Knox alerted him to the strange situation at her apartment, after they had lunch, after they mopped the floor, then they walked to the cottage, where he checked all the bedrooms. Then he smoked a cigarette in the kitchen ... or was that left from the day before ... when they were stoned and Meredith was having dinner with friends ... returning home at about 9.

What did she do with the mop that she took to Sollecito's apartment to clean up the water spill from 16 hours earlier? Was that found as an extra mop at the Sollecito residence according to the cleaning lady? We know about the extra bleach, but the mop ... does Knox claim that it is the mop found outside the cottage by the Postal Police?

I meant to say ... yes, beyond a reasonable doubt, especially in light of the copper rich soil argument.

 

[otto]

The heel of his shoe is on the corner of the pillow. That is a strange way of pushing it The shoe prints on the floor however are the top of his shoe. So I was wondering if they could be matched up. If one matches up then you know where Guede stepped on the pillow.
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-04.html

I can match it up if someone can show me the shoe prints on the floor that need to be matched up on the shoe prints on the pillow. I have large format images of the pillow case. Do I need to click on the link to see the bloody shoe prints on Meredith's bedroom floor?

 

[sherlockh]

I can match it up if someone can show me the shoe prints on the floor that need to be matched up on the shoe prints on the pillow. I have large format images of the pillow case. Do I need to click on the link to see the bloody shoe prints on Meredith's bedroom floor?

Yes, or download the Vinci report. The prints are not so clear though.
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Vinci.pdf (8MB)
I just noticed Vinci calls the 3 corner pillow prints A,B,C matching with the letters of the 3 shoe prints by the bed, so maybe he already noticed that they match up? Not sure if he came to that conclusion.

 

[redheadedgal]

otto said: It all comes down the conclusions in the Massei report. Hellman's decisions have been annulled, so it doesn't really matter what he concluded.

dgfred said: Since C and V are discarded... why argue over it's meaning and analysis?

SMK said: So I presume Hellmann accepted their [C&V] conclusions, and this current Nencini court overturned and rejected them.

from ABC News Jan. 28, 2014:

The judge, Alessandro Nencini, has made it clear that this court's decision will be based on all the evidence and arguments used and presented in the previous trials.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knoxs-countdown-verdict/story?id=22257625

 

[redheadedgal]

Amanda confides in Ryan Ferguson:

"I wanted to reach out to her because I&#8217;ve looked at the facts in her case, and I believe in her innocence 100 percent,&#8217;&#8217; Ferguson told TODAY.com. &#8220;She was very supportive and helpful when I got out, and I want to be able to give back. I believe she&#8217;s nervous and a little scared, but overwhelmingly, I would say she has been positive."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/28/amanda-knox-ryan-ferguson_n_4682801.html


also,

"The only thing that&#8217;s scary, and this is a quote from me and not her, is the political aspect of it,&#8217;&#8217; Ferguson told TODAY.com. &#8220;What I&#8217;ve seen in the justice system in the situation I was in is that it&#8217;s not always about facts and circumstances; it&#8217;s about politics.&#8221;

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/ryan-ferguson-amanda-knox-a-little-scared-as-new-verdict-looms

 

[MichaelSmith]

New book out yesterday which I just bought on Kindle.

Amazon.com: The Forgotten Killer: Rudy Guede and the Murder of Meredith Kercher eBook: Douglas Preston, John Douglas, Mark Olshaker, Steve Moore, Judge Michael Heavey, Jim Lovering, Thomas Lee Wright: Kindle Store