Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell, 18, Reported Missing from Norfolk, VA - 3 March 2015

[Mountain_Kat]

That is still up for debate. Suffolk county PD says it was accidental, but the family has requested another autopsy, I believe.

Well, her cause of death has always been up for debate. But the official cause of death is still "undetermined", isn't it? Or did I miss something?

 

[FindHG]

I don't think she was shot, I don't think he owned a gun. I do think he would use someone elses gun.
IMO the amo the scale were all brought over from the house when AJ vanished.
The body was not really hidden and would eventually have been found. I don't think WES left her there.

So, to jump off your post, you think Hadsell set himself up to draw attention from a guiltier party to muddy the investigation, that there is a cover up, but the actual perp isn't known yet at all, which may explain other's confidence in him still as being innocent? He strikes me as neither that magnanimous nor trusting of others, maybe his family as in the other times he abducted and beat young women before, certainly he would trust them more than an estranged wife.

 

[Luvrosco]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/1...erial-killers-dumping-ground-likely-murdered/

 

[Mountain_Kat]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/1...erial-killers-dumping-ground-likely-murdered/

Right, and not to belabor the point or anything, but the official cause of death is still "undetermined". It was never officially classified as an accidental death. LE said they felt it was accidental, but the autopsy has always said "undetermined".

(Sorry...not trying to hijack the thread. I've just worked that case for 4 years, so the facts are important to me.)

 

[DexterMorgan]

Too many stories in the news show that male and female suspects will try to lessen their involvement by saying they were having consented drug fueled sex with the victim and things got out of hand.

They say the victim became unresponsive due to accidental od or accidental sexual asphyxiation, blah blah blah.

But since the victim is dead; They are not there to tell their side of the story. Like

I was drugged

I said stop

They kept laughing and wouldn't help me

Etc etc etc

3 cases this is in reference to

The teen baby sitter who the couple injected with meth and heroin and disposed of her after she died during a tryst.

A female college student who went to hang with some newly found woman friend and her husband to have drinks and supposedly play s&m sex games.

The 8month pregnant woman who met the indian doctor on Craigslist. She told her mother she was going to clean his house. But we now know he shot her up with heroin and whatever after that.

So imo. It doesn't matter if a victim in certain situations have drugs in their system. I will not let suspects try to sell me on the idea of a accidental overdose at all. Especially after body dumps are meant for the victim to not be found in most cases.

 

[here]

Yes, very possible.
Beverly Carter case is perfect example. Her body was found within 5 days of her kidnapping in September. 2 people charged with her murder but cause of death is unknown to the public.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/arkansas-realtor-beverly-carter-targeted-woman-worked/story?id=25860583

Suspect possibly texted BC's husband

Haynes would not specifically say if he believes Lewis was the one to text Carter's husband from her phone hours after he allegedly abducted her,

Suspect once worked where body was found. killer’s awareness space

Carter's body was found in a shallow grave at the Argos Concrete Co., about 20 miles from the town of Scott, Arkansas, where Carter had an appointment to show a house for sale. The Associated Press reported that Lewis once worked at the concrete company.

 

[Eileen730]

We cant ignore that fact that there are other ppl in AJ's life sadly Wes is the only one that opened his mouth!
We really do not know where anyone was that day.
We don't know who lives in that house.
I think something happened to her way before the family left for school that morning.
To me when her social media stopped AJ was no longer with us!
But this is all JMO

 

[Eileen730]

I do not .think drugs had anything to do with what happened to her.

I think someone got mad at her!

 

[FindHG]

Too many stories in the news show that male and female suspects will try to lessen their involvement by saying they were having consented drug fueled sex with the victim and things got out of hand.

They say the victim became unresponsive due to accidental od or accidental sexual asphyxiation, blah blah blah.

But since the victim is dead; They are not there to tell their side of the story. Like

I was drugged

I said stop

They kept laughing and wouldn't help me

Etc etc etc

3 cases this is in reference to

The teen baby sitter who the couple injected with meth and heroin and disposed of her after she died during a tryst.

A female college student who went to hang with some newly found woman friend and her husband to have drinks and supposedly play s&m sex games.

The 8month pregnant woman who met the indian doctor on Craigslist. She told her mother she was going to clean his house. But we now know he shot her up with heroin and whatever after that.

So imo. It doesn't matter if a victim in certain situations have drugs in their system. I will not let suspects try to sell me on the idea of a accidental overdose at all. Especially after body dumps are meant for the victim to not be found in most cases.

Correct. I've heard of more than one tragic situation after another where a persons traits or background have been used as red herrings in setting up their murders, say they had a drug habit at some point in life, or sexual promiscuity, or gambling debts, or mental illness, or liked to go hiking, hunting or fishing, even driving, that I can think of, but never laundry and doing their chores.

 

[DexterMorgan]

That is still up for debate. Suffolk county PD says it was accidental, but the family has requested another autopsy, I believe.

That's the tricky part. It's weird how in some cases LE will request that they put undetermined down for the sake of just in case.

Some examiner's also like to hear other circumstantial evidence before putting down the manner of death.

Just like when a person is shot. They need more information to say homicide, accidental or suicide.

So it's never cut and dry.

 

[FindHG]

That's the tricky part. It's weird how LE will request they put undetermined down for the sake of just in case.

Some examiner's also like to hear other circumstantial evidence before putting down the manner of death.

Just like when a person is shot. They need more information to say homicide, accidental or suicide.

So it's never cut and dry.

The forensic anthropologist would have more to say about the manner of death, I guess? Is that the same as COD? They may be able to determine previous medical conditions, like nutrition, sexual activity, etc...

 

[Phoebeb]

I don't think she was shot, I don't think he owned a gun. I do think he would use someone elses gun.
IMO the amo the scale were all brought over from the house when AJ vanished.
The body was not really hidden and would eventually have been found. I don't think WES left her there.

If the ammo was brought over (to the hotel) from the house when AJ vanished, why list ammo on the Missing Persons Report?
Do we know if WH was present when the family filed the MPR?

 

[Luvrosco]

Right, and not to belabor the point or anything, but the official cause of death is still "undetermined". It was never officially classified as an accidental death. LE said they felt it was accidental, but the autopsy has always said "undetermined".

(Sorry...not trying to hijack the thread. I've just worked that case for 4 years, so the facts are important to me.)

Yes, I'm sorry. I was confusing the cause of death with the manner. I'm a Long Islander, and taught 5 minutes from where the first bodies were found. It's so frustrating that no one has been arrested.

 

[DexterMorgan]

The forensic anthropologist would have more to say about the manner of death, I guess? Is that the same as COD? They may be able to determine previous medical conditions, like nutrition, sexual activity, etc...

The cod is drowning. The manner of how they drowned is either accidental or homicidal or suicidal. Jmo. But i could be wrong.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If the ammo was brought over (to the hotel) from the house when AJ vanished, why list ammo on the Missing Persons Report?
Do we know if WH was present when the family filed the MPR?

Good question. Maybe he told JH prior to make her think it was a break-in and she relayed that information. If anything a person will say the gun is missing which will set off alarms. But not the ammo if a gun hasn't been in the house for months.

I'm sure LE asked them about the gun once the ammo was stated missing.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/arkansas-realtor-beverly-carter-targeted-woman-worked/story?id=25860583

Suspect possibly texted BC's husband



Suspect once worked where body was found. killer’s awareness space

I'm glad you brought up the subject of "awareness space". This is a concept that someone (Vail maybe) brought to my attention during this case. In a nutshell, it's defined as " a personal perimeter created by the paths taken to and from personal nodes. Personal Pathway: the route that an individual takes to and from typical locations of activity in his or her daily life." Applied to certain crimes, it's brilliant, imo. I've recently started to take a look back at some of the cases I've worked here on WS, with a particular eye for awareness space. And let me tell you, it can totally change the way you view suspects and evidence.

Looking at awareness space in AJ's case, for instance, I've made note of several key locations.

1. The Millard St. residence (where she was last seen by mother)
2. S Battlefield Blvd. (where clothing was found)
3. the home that was broken into (where her jacket was found/planted)
4. the pond in Carrsville, IOW
5. the s hampton county home where her remains were found

The first 3 are all in WH's awareness space. He had previous lived in the Millard St. home, and even after he moved out, was there frequently to change vehicles. He knew S Battlefield Blvd. because this is a common route to Dare County, NC., and he knew the home of Texty, because he had been there on at least one occasion prior to the break in, and passed this house on his way to and from Millard St.

And while #4 and #5 can't be specifically tied to a common route WH travelled , we do know that a white quality plumbing van was seen near the pond in Carrsville, and WH drove a white Quality Plumbing van. We know that AJ's remains were found at a house in Franklin, and WH was working in Franklin at the time of her disappearance.

So, in terms of "awareness space", I can't think of any other person close to Anjelica, except for Wesley Hadsell, who hits on all 5 locations.

JMO

 

[CookieM]

I just jumped back on the thread and had to leap to the last page due to lack of time, but I'm seeing all this talk of cause of death. Have they released a COD for Anjelica????

 

[Eileen730]

So, to jump off your post, you think Hadsell set himself up to draw attention from a guiltier party to muddy the investigation, that there is a cover up, but the actual perp isn't known yet at all, which may explain other's confidence in him still as being innocent? He strikes me as neither that magnanimous nor trusting of others, maybe his family as in the other times he abducted and beat young women before, certainly he would trust them more than an estranged wife.

I don't think he set himself up to draw attention away from this other person but I do think he tried to divert everything. Only thing it all came back at him.

If WH killed her there would have been no planting a jacket no pieces of debit cards. N there would have been nothing....and he would have been silent. I just feel there is a lot more to this tragedy!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The forensic anthropologist would have more to say about the manner of death, I guess? Is that the same as COD? They may be able to determine previous medical conditions, like nutrition, sexual activity, etc...

BBM

No, FHG. Cause of death is the physiological changes which bring about death. Heart attack, gunshot wound to the head (massive hemmorhage), liver failure, etc. etc. Manner of death are the circumstances which caused the death. Accidental death, suicide, natural death, homicide, etc.

So, in this case...let's say AJ's cause of death was asphyxiation. What caused her death would simply be that there was an obstruction of the airways which resulted in death. Manner of death could be accidental (choking on food, vomit, etc), suicide (hanging), natural death (copd), or homicide (manual strangulation).

Make sense?

 

[Eileen730]

I'm glad you brought up the subject of "awareness space". This is a concept that someone (Vail maybe) brought to my attention during this case. In a nutshell, it's defined as " a personal perimeter created by the paths taken to and from personal nodes. Personal Pathway: the route that an individual takes to and from typical locations of activity in his or her daily life." Applied to certain crimes, it's brilliant, imo. I've recently started to take a look back at some of the cases I've worked here on WS, with a particular eye for awareness space. And let me tell you, it can totally change the way you view suspects and evidence.

Looking at awareness space in AJ's case, for instance, I've made note of several key locations.

1. The Millard St. residence (where she was last seen by mother)
2. S Battlefield Blvd. (where clothing was found)
3. the home that was broken into (where her jacket was found/planted)
4. the pond in Carrsville, IOW
5. the s hampton county home where her remains were found

The first 3 are all in WH's awareness space. He had previous lived in the Millard St. home, and even after he moved out, was there frequently to change vehicles. He knew S Battlefield Blvd. because this is a common route to Dare County, NC., and he knew the home of Texty, because he had been there on at least one occasion prior to the break in, and passed this house on his way to and from Millard St.

And while #4 and #5 can't be specifically tied to a common route WH travelled , we do know that a white quality plumbing van was seen near the pond in Carrsville, and WH drove a white Quality Plumbing van. We know that AJ's remains were found at a house in Franklin, and WH was working in Franklin at the time of her disappearance.

So, in terms of "awareness space", I can't think of any other person close to Anjelica, except for Wesley Hadsell, who hits on all 5 locations.

JMO

Only because we know everything about WH and nothing about anyone else.