Agatha_C
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Az, I wonder if LE, did forensics on the mold from the WC floor with the smudge mark under the train room window?
Aphrodite Jones, JonBenet, and Lou Smit?
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3- Latest: Charlot123
Az, I wonder if LE, did forensics on the mold from the WC floor with the smudge mark under the train room window?
I doubt it. We all know no one went OUT through that window.
Agatha_C
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Regarding the pineapple -- an intruder could easily convince a child to reveal a favourite food to eat and if they had been in the home for a few hours, would have known the pineapple was there.[/QUOTE]
You have to look at JonBenet's personality. She was no shrinking violet, and as John so adamately said, she would have screamed bloody murder if she opened her mouth to eat pineapple.
You have a six-year old who would have screamed if there was anyone there that should not have been. So the pineapple is the big bugaboo.
You have to look at JonBenet's personality. She was no shrinking violet, and as John so adamately said, she would have screamed bloody murder if she opened her mouth to eat pineapple.
You have a six-year old who would have screamed if there was anyone there that should not have been. So the pineapple is the big bugaboo.
wonderllama
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The problem with an intruder easily getting a child to reveal their favourite food is the follow up point that they have to then wait til the child digests it some of the way before killing them.
It's a completely nonsensical situation.
It's a completely nonsensical situation.
Agatha_C
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I think people either forget or dont know, that forensics place BR at the table with Jonbenet, the tea glass and pineapple/bowl. When you place BR at that table, how do you see that intruder theory playing out?
BR is alive and unhurt...
Told his parents he heard nothing...
Said in an interview, he maybe heard some noise down stairs that night...
One maybe two intruders, jonbenet and BR all sat around eating, drinking and talking and the parents did not hear a thing....
You have to ask yourself, why would the/se intruders only take one child, when two were worth more? When they killed Jonbenet, why didnt they go up and get their new bff BR?
Why would BR keep it a secret all of these years, when that information, could have cleared his parents?
There was no intruder!
BR is alive and unhurt...
Told his parents he heard nothing...
Said in an interview, he maybe heard some noise down stairs that night...
One maybe two intruders, jonbenet and BR all sat around eating, drinking and talking and the parents did not hear a thing....
You have to ask yourself, why would the/se intruders only take one child, when two were worth more? When they killed Jonbenet, why didnt they go up and get their new bff BR?
Why would BR keep it a secret all of these years, when that information, could have cleared his parents?
There was no intruder!
eileenhawkeye
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Jessica Lunsford was kidnapped from her bedroom and according to Couey, she didn't put up a struggle at all. However, JonBenet definitely seems like the type of kid who would basically be like "WTF!" (not those exact words haha) if some random person appeared in her doorway. Even if this intruder threatened her (which probably happened in Jessica's case), him making JBR eat pineapple is ridiculous. Plus IDI believe that JBR was stun gunned, so the intruder waited for her to awake and then they ate pineapple together and then he killed her? I could believe an intruder stunning her and taking JBR out of the house, but that didn't happen.
Whaleshark
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i think there's a couple big bugaboos....pineapple and RN for two.
The thing about the pineapple is, it would have been easier to just say that someone had some pineapple before bed or whatever: yes, of course that's our bowl, spoon, and pineapple...one of us had a quick snack last night, and you'll probably find our fingerprints on it, as you should... but even if the kids got up on their own and got the snacks, and the parents didn't know about it, why not ask your son if he knew about it, or got it, and note that it wouldn't be unusual for one of them to want a pineapple and cream snack? But it was not stated that way. Patsy claimed she didn't even recognize the bowl at first, and JR said that JonBenet couldn't reach the bowls, and they wouldn't have used that large of a spoon, and no one would have drank tea that way, hinting that it had to be indicative of an intruder going through their stuff while they slept and preparing the food, but only BRs and PRs fingerprints were on those items...maybe the intruder used gloves while doing all that then?
So since they have purposely distanced themselves from their own kitchenware, pineapple, and tea - the whole snack event - we are forced, as intended, to look at the intruder scenario: so then we have to add that scene into the equation. If it's not the Ramseys, it's an intruder..Lou Smit said so himself, right?
So the intruder has got a bowl out of the cabinet, put pineapple and cream from their kitchen in it, got a glass and tea bag out, and is casually and quietly doing this while John, Patsy, and Burke are upstairs sleeping?
If there were no related pineapple in Jonbenet's stomach either, that would be one thing...but she is connected because there is pineapple in her stomach, and there's a bowl of pineapple sitting on the table.
JR also went from saying that he didn't think his children ever even drank tea at all (just like he didn't even know about JonBenet's bedwetting at all), then that Burke wouldn't have drank tea like that in a glass, to saying Burke did occasionally like to drink tea. Can't be all three. Burke's fingerprints were found on the tea glass. Patsy did say that pineapple was JonBenet's favorite, and she liked to have it cut fresh...and we could even go into the other levels of meaning pineapple may have in Patsy's life...but for the purposes of simply looking at the intruder fixing the snacks in the Ramsey kitchen while they are all there at the same time?...try picturing it. see what that looks like to you.
yes, pineapple definitely a bugaboo...but moreso because the Rs said they were NOT the ones who were eating it and knew nothing about it.
who is going to calmly make themselves at home, and quietly go thru the Rs kitchen doing all that while the Rs just sleep upstairs and not expect or fear that any one of the Rs, especially Burke, could possibly come down the stairs at any minute? Especially since Burke could hear the fridge door open from his room, and other sounds in the house and kitchen.... And since the pineapple is in her stomach, the intruder also was in the kitchen with JonBenet while she ate some of it, chillin' and hangin' until the rest of the events occurred?
The thing about the pineapple is, it would have been easier to just say that someone had some pineapple before bed or whatever: yes, of course that's our bowl, spoon, and pineapple...one of us had a quick snack last night, and you'll probably find our fingerprints on it, as you should... but even if the kids got up on their own and got the snacks, and the parents didn't know about it, why not ask your son if he knew about it, or got it, and note that it wouldn't be unusual for one of them to want a pineapple and cream snack? But it was not stated that way. Patsy claimed she didn't even recognize the bowl at first, and JR said that JonBenet couldn't reach the bowls, and they wouldn't have used that large of a spoon, and no one would have drank tea that way, hinting that it had to be indicative of an intruder going through their stuff while they slept and preparing the food, but only BRs and PRs fingerprints were on those items...maybe the intruder used gloves while doing all that then?
So since they have purposely distanced themselves from their own kitchenware, pineapple, and tea - the whole snack event - we are forced, as intended, to look at the intruder scenario: so then we have to add that scene into the equation. If it's not the Ramseys, it's an intruder..Lou Smit said so himself, right?
So the intruder has got a bowl out of the cabinet, put pineapple and cream from their kitchen in it, got a glass and tea bag out, and is casually and quietly doing this while John, Patsy, and Burke are upstairs sleeping?
If there were no related pineapple in Jonbenet's stomach either, that would be one thing...but she is connected because there is pineapple in her stomach, and there's a bowl of pineapple sitting on the table.
JR also went from saying that he didn't think his children ever even drank tea at all (just like he didn't even know about JonBenet's bedwetting at all), then that Burke wouldn't have drank tea like that in a glass, to saying Burke did occasionally like to drink tea. Can't be all three. Burke's fingerprints were found on the tea glass. Patsy did say that pineapple was JonBenet's favorite, and she liked to have it cut fresh...and we could even go into the other levels of meaning pineapple may have in Patsy's life...but for the purposes of simply looking at the intruder fixing the snacks in the Ramsey kitchen while they are all there at the same time?...try picturing it. see what that looks like to you.
yes, pineapple definitely a bugaboo...but moreso because the Rs said they were NOT the ones who were eating it and knew nothing about it.
who is going to calmly make themselves at home, and quietly go thru the Rs kitchen doing all that while the Rs just sleep upstairs and not expect or fear that any one of the Rs, especially Burke, could possibly come down the stairs at any minute? Especially since Burke could hear the fridge door open from his room, and other sounds in the house and kitchen.... And since the pineapple is in her stomach, the intruder also was in the kitchen with JonBenet while she ate some of it, chillin' and hangin' until the rest of the events occurred?
Maikai
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I tend to believe Lou Smit---most crimes are as they appear to be. He only knew of one case out of hundreds where there was staging. I think they were amateurs who thought they could pull off a kidnapping---and it's because of that JBR was murdered. She probably was more than they could handle in the basement, and one or more became enraged, which would explain the overkill. They knew the basement window wasn't armed....they couldn't be sure on the doors. If they did panic, and killed her the plan would have been dropped. They just wanted to get as far away as possible. I don't know where the person or persons lived---not necessarily a group home.
An amateurish attempt at a kidnapping would explain why there was a body and a note.
roseofsharon
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Just wondering if the R's garbage was collected by Forensics. Since it was xmas, the pick-up day would have changed that week?
Someone into mountain climbing would have a great deal of agility/strength and could have easily entered that basement window and then hoisted themselves back up to leave the scene. The garrote was fashioned after the Prusik knot, a rope used to ascend a mountain.
Historically, when children are murdered by a parent, thinking logically, they would have gotten rid of the body, especially if they were going to stage a kidnapping.
I can't imagine parents murdering their child, place them in a wine cellar and then call 911 knowing the police were going to find her.
I know JR found her, but it could have just as easily been LE.
Does not make sense -- just MOT & O's.
Someone into mountain climbing would have a great deal of agility/strength and could have easily entered that basement window and then hoisted themselves back up to leave the scene. The garrote was fashioned after the Prusik knot, a rope used to ascend a mountain.
Historically, when children are murdered by a parent, thinking logically, they would have gotten rid of the body, especially if they were going to stage a kidnapping.
I can't imagine parents murdering their child, place them in a wine cellar and then call 911 knowing the police were going to find her.
I know JR found her, but it could have just as easily been LE.
Does not make sense -- just MOT & O's.
Agatha_C
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Rose, the Rs oldest son was a hiker/mountain climber. A bag with mountain climbing rope was found in his bedroom.
Maikai
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You would think the garbage would have been looked into....I know they took leaves and cigarette butts into evidence. I didn't know that the knot was a Prusik knot---a lot has been speculated about it, but I never really knew what the conclusion was--thanks. JBR was a trophy child---it doesn't make sense to me either that a parent would murder a child the way she was. Especially with no history. The Access article came out on l2/21---I think that was the trigger. The Ramsey's phone number and address was publically listedd. Whoever did it would have cased the house beforehand, and most likely was watching their activities. He/she/they got lucky---I doubt even the perp would have thought the police would target the Ramseys---and I don't believe they just waltzed around the house not worried about detection.
roseofsharon
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I don't know if the knot was conclusively deemed to be the Prusik, just an attempt at making that type of knot -- so someone with knowledge of it.
If I heard a child scream in the wee hours, I would immediately call the police, so IMO, the neighbour sleeping with her window open a crack, is not credible.
So, a child screams and you roll over and go back to sleep!!!! REALLY!!!
Footnote: If I heard a child scream at ANY time!!!
IMO:loser:
If I heard a child scream in the wee hours, I would immediately call the police, so IMO, the neighbour sleeping with her window open a crack, is not credible.
So, a child screams and you roll over and go back to sleep!!!! REALLY!!!
Footnote: If I heard a child scream at ANY time!!!
IMO:loser:
Whaleshark
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for an intruder scenario, evidence suggests otherwise.
roseofsharon
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Possibly, the writer composed the RN in their own home and then copied it onto R's notepad, using R's pen, in order to make the R's look like the guilty persons, perhaps knowing PR and how she spoke, so composed the RN to sound like her.
Whoever the writer was, did not know JR was from Michigan, not from the south - hmmm?
The phrase regarding growing a brain is from the movie Speed, according info online.
The RN sounds very juvenile IMO. If that 911 call made by PR is fake, then she was a good actress.
It would be interesting to start a list of knowns and a list of unknowns.
IMO
Whoever the writer was, did not know JR was from Michigan, not from the south - hmmm?
The phrase regarding growing a brain is from the movie Speed, according info online.
The RN sounds very juvenile IMO. If that 911 call made by PR is fake, then she was a good actress.
It would be interesting to start a list of knowns and a list of unknowns.
IMO
Maikai
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Lou Smit thought the perp purposely didn't have a note in case he was caught going into the house. I don't necessarily think that's the case. I think most of it was typed out beforehand and then recopied because there was time. That way it couldn't be traced back to a printer or typewriter or paper. The note typed is less then one page. Some of the crossouts look like it was copied, and they lost their place. Most of the note is just instructions---I think the last paragraph was adlibbed---there's a change of tone---sarcasm. I really don't think in a million years the perp would have thought the police would target the Ramseys---otherwise, they wouldn't have had to leave a note...they could have planted *advertiser censored* magazines in the house.
If you take the movie references out of the note, there's not much there. If this hadn't ended so tragically, it could have been a bad joke. I never ruled out a "small foreign faction"---someone from another country, trying to sound American by using movie lines...although I think that was deliberate---the perp wrote his own movie line contest.
Good idea about a thread of known facts vs speculation and rumor.
Maikai
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Yes, a lot of the note could have been gleaned from the Access article l2/21. ie: Dixie Jazz band was playing---southern. We don't know what they may have seen in the house in the way of southern influences.
The note did not address a wife....it only said "your daughter." The perp didn't seem to know JBR's name, and only referenced "your business." I don't think they really knew what Access did. I also find it interesting, that there was no mention of JBR and the pageants or reference to her in sexual tones--one reason I don't think it was a pedophile, and the sexual assault done out of anger.
The note did not address a wife....it only said "your daughter." The perp didn't seem to know JBR's name, and only referenced "your business." I don't think they really knew what Access did. I also find it interesting, that there was no mention of JBR and the pageants or reference to her in sexual tones--one reason I don't think it was a pedophile, and the sexual assault done out of anger.
So sad to check in for updates and see this .... being a RDI I HATE this type of spin continues. When did we as a society stop being interested in truth?
Feel better Tricia, and thank you for always pursuing the truth even when it isnt the popular thing to do.
Kathy
Feel better Tricia, and thank you for always pursuing the truth even when it isnt the popular thing to do.
Kathy
roseofsharon
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If the truth were known, person or persons would be in prison right now!!!!!
Sorry you don't appreciate the spin, but the last time I looked, I believe this website was a forum to voice one's own opinions and respect another's opinions, with plenty of room for agreeing to disagree.
This case needs many minds to help solve it and an open mind at that!!
All the "what ifs" are what make this website an interesting place to explore. They are only "what if's", that's all they are -- different scenarios to see if something else comes out of someone's thought or idea that perhaps may relate to something else that just maybe might add up to 1 plus 1 equals 2!!!
No one's thought or opinion should be disregarded, just because someone else has their own thoughts on the case shut water tight.
There is another thread for posting for those who feel there was no intruder. Many of us do not have an opinion one way or the other; we are just posting our thoughts on a horrific crime with no justice for 14 years.
I would appreciate a comment from a moderator regarding being constantly slapped on the wrist because someone doesn't agree with what another has to offer. We are all out for the same cause -- justice for JB or we wouldn't be here or dare I say maybe even justice for the R's - ooops -- hope that is okay:maddening::maddening: or is this forum just a clique????
The above are MY thoughts and MY opinions ONLY!!!!!!
Sorry you don't appreciate the spin, but the last time I looked, I believe this website was a forum to voice one's own opinions and respect another's opinions, with plenty of room for agreeing to disagree.
This case needs many minds to help solve it and an open mind at that!!
All the "what ifs" are what make this website an interesting place to explore. They are only "what if's", that's all they are -- different scenarios to see if something else comes out of someone's thought or idea that perhaps may relate to something else that just maybe might add up to 1 plus 1 equals 2!!!
No one's thought or opinion should be disregarded, just because someone else has their own thoughts on the case shut water tight.
There is another thread for posting for those who feel there was no intruder. Many of us do not have an opinion one way or the other; we are just posting our thoughts on a horrific crime with no justice for 14 years.
I would appreciate a comment from a moderator regarding being constantly slapped on the wrist because someone doesn't agree with what another has to offer. We are all out for the same cause -- justice for JB or we wouldn't be here or dare I say maybe even justice for the R's - ooops -- hope that is okay:maddening::maddening: or is this forum just a clique????
The above are MY thoughts and MY opinions ONLY!!!!!!