Armchair psychology - How many of these traits fit Misty?

[dodie20]

There's a reason why the DSM limits diagnoses to those above 18. Even average 18-year olds are often very shallow and narcissistic. They have difficulty seeing the consequences of actions and still engage in risky behaviors (binge drinking, sexting, driving under the influence, cutting classes in college, stupid pranks, etc.)

While Misty barely makes the grade, age-wise, remember that her developmental age is probably younger than 18. Kids who begin using drugs at an early age halt normal development--psychologically, socially, and emotionally. In addition, they may damage their incomplete physical maturation, particularly in regard to brain development, which is often not complete until the mid-twenties. One reason addicts often "seem" immature is that they are; they halted normal maturation when they began using drugs.So with Misty, there is the terrible upbringing, the almost non-existent education, an absence of adult role models, a family history of drug abuse, and her own early involvement with drugs and sexual promiscuity. She has almost no life skills and is surrounded by people who have many of the same issues. It almost doesn't matter if she is psychopathic; how would she ever find the resources to get psychiatric help, let alone the will to do so or the fortitude it takes to look inward?

& @ her age & maturity level, I doubt that she'd have a desire to change. She'd just think that anybody who had a problem with her, needed to mind their own business.

 

[pip]

Sociopaths also tend to have high IQ's. We can scratch poor Misty from that list. I don't think she is a sociopath for many reasons. She acts by impulse rather than by plotting or reasoning. I think she has anti-social tendencies, by nature of her upbringing but not full blown sociopathy. She also shows signs of addictive personality. Depression and anxiety.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'm not at all sure that she has a low "IQ," if by that you mean a score on the Stanford-Binet test; she is certainly almost uneducated, by today's standards, and she may have very poor or negligible literacy skills, but none of that means she doesn't have mental capacity.

 

[pip]

I'm not at all sure that she has a low "IQ," if by that you mean a score on the Stanford-Binet test; she is certainly almost uneducated, by today's standards, and she may have very poor or negligible literacy skills, but none of that means she doesn't have mental capacity.

Undeveloped capacity.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Undeveloped capacity.

Yes, or capacities in areas that aren't measured on the Stanford-Binet, which is aimed at things that can be tested on paper. For example, someone may have high "intelligence" in areas like music, interpersonal relations, "body-kinesthetics" (to list a few of Howard Gardner's "multiple intelligences"). I would also count "intelligence" in areas that are no longer significant for many in highly developed post-industrial societies, like farming (not agri-business farming, but farming as it was done before practices like keeping chickens in cages, raising animals in pens where they can't move, etc.) and the ability to "read" aspects of the natural world (e.g., in the 2004 tsunami, how some people recognized that the ocean receding from the shore signaled a tsunami).

I'm not saying that Misty is intelligent, or not intelligent. I'm saying that even if she took the most recent Stanford-Binet, which claims to have corrected for cultural biases (in Misty's case, in regard to social class and economic strata) and literacy skills (testing aspects of intelligence in non-verbal tasks), there may be "intelligence," developed or otherwise, that wouldn't be "measured". I am a great skeptic in regard to the way many young people are marked as "low intelligence" based on school performance and standardized tests. It would seem to me that her impoverished emotional and social development, early drug abuse, as well as a family background that almost certainly did not prepare her well for schooling, might well explain her school failures--and might predict school failure even for someone with measurably high intelligence. I am also thinking here about possible pre-natal damage, given her mother's history of drug abuse, that might impair brain functioning, which could affect capacity, especially when coupled with an early childhood that is impoverished in terms of the kind of mental stimulation common for middle-class children from homes in which parents are not addicts or criminals. That is, Misty's background, both pre- and post-natal, might have an impact on "intelligence," both in terms of capacity and in making something of that capacity, including compensating for developmental delays.

What's really discouraging is how many Mistys and Tommys and Rons there are out there--kids who may start out with developmental issues because of their parents' alcohol or drug abuse, and then are raised in chaotic homes that don't prepare kids well for school or for life, who then abuse drugs an alcohol and bring children into the world who have the same handicaps to try to overcome (e.g., Ron, Jr., whose mother is an addict and whose father is now incarcerated). We just don't see these kids because their lives either don't land them in the public eye or they just get their few lines in the paper when they end up arrested, convicted, or dying young.

There's a group of four teenagers (16-17) who were arrested for shooting a retired firefighter who was walking his dog. They wanted money for drugs and decided to "rob the first person they saw." They used the pretext of asking if the dog would bite to approach the man but after he said the dog was "friendly," shot the man twice and killed him. Having not thought the matter through, they ended up NOT robbing the man because...they were afraid of the dog, who had just seen his master shot and killed. This, of course, is an extreme example. It's hard to imagine how they wouldn't have thought through the consequences of shooting a man walking a pit bull--what they would have to risk to pull the wallet out of his pocket, for example--or that they gave no thought to the ubiquitous security cameras on city streets. But they had made a "decision" and followed it through--right to jail.

These punks are getting their few lines in the paper now, but soon they will be tried, convicted and sent to prison for life. There's a video of them stalking the man they killed, and all four of them are pointing the finger at the others. No one outside this city will ever know their names, and most of us will (I hope) remember the man they killed and not the names of the killers. But they are, more or less, like Misty, kids being lost to gross negligence by their parents, communities rotten with drugs and guns, their own addictions, schools totally unprepared to deal with their problems, and their own total lack of empathy for others--whether the result of psychopathy or more simply the fact that no one ever taught them to care about anyone except themselves.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10100/1049254-53.stm#ixzz0ko1K01FV

 

[Whisperer]

How did we attain information about Lisa's drug/alcohol abuse? Is it fact that she used drugs when pregnant with misty? I just don't know.

 

[Whisperer]

I don't know about misty's intelligence. She appears normal in intelligence and thinking at least concretely since she can stop herself before she incriminates. Her emotional self is what is the problem. I doubt she has insight or can think abstractly. She is impulsive.

She deludes herself with her feelings and I am not sure if delude is the correct word. She doesn't appear to "Get it". She is sociopathic according to my standards and she will use and gravitate towards anyone who can give her what she think she deserves. She needs a strong arm and strict limits but it appears it is too late. The structure of prison is her best bet now, imo. She won't thrive there but she will remain out of getting herself in more trouble or dying prematurely.

She may be a case of disassociation...I hate to say it but it appears it's possilbe.

 

[Peliman]

I have a different take on Misty. I think she's loosely associated with gang culture. Her extended family was saturated with it on facebook. Lots of ganging examples, JO, her cousin B.O in daytona, I think she's been looking for acceptance into this group of people because after all gangs are about acceptance, a place to belong.

I just see her as influenced by this sub-culture where she owes more allegiance to her sub-culture core of people than someone else.

I'm not saying she's full fledged gang member but sees and associates herself with the culture.

Oh yeah, this whole case opened my eyes to the gang culture present in the beginning of this case, the my space pages have been tamed down now.

The dilemma she faces is if she talks, her whole "gang" goes down and shes remaining loyal to them. " (At the moment)

BTW - A gang can be three or more people associated with criminal activity but it's all a debatable subject. JMO

 

[stilettos]

I have a different take on Misty. I think she's loosely associated with gang culture. Her extended family was saturated with it on facebook. Lots of ganging examples, JO, her cousin B.O in daytona, I think she's been looking for acceptance into this group of people because after all gangs are about acceptance, a place to belong.

I just see her as influenced by this sub-culture where she owes more allegiance to her sub-culture core of people than someone else.

I'm not saying she's full fledged gang member but sees and associates herself with the culture.

Oh yeah, this whole case opened my eyes to the gang culture present in the beginning of this case, the my space pages have been tamed down now.

The dilemma she faces is if she talks, her whole "gang" goes down and shes remaining loyal to them. " (At the moment)

BTW - A gang can be three or more people associated with criminal activity but it's all a debatable subject. JMO

Grifters..just add the illegal drugs in. Lots of that in multi generations in families down there....and NO you do not turn on them.

 

[stilettos]

There's a reason why the DSM limits diagnoses to those above 18. Even average 18-year olds are often very shallow and narcissistic. They have difficulty seeing the consequences of actions and still engage in risky behaviors (binge drinking, sexting, driving under the influence, cutting classes in college, stupid pranks, etc.)

While Misty barely makes the grade, age-wise, remember that her developmental age is probably younger than 18. Kids who begin using drugs at an early age halt normal development--psychologically, socially, and emotionally. In addition, they may damage their incomplete physical maturation, particularly in regard to brain development, which is often not complete until the mid-twenties. One reason addicts often "seem" immature is that they are; they halted normal maturation when they began using drugs.So with Misty, there is the terrible upbringing, the almost non-existent education, an absence of adult role models, a family history of drug abuse, and her own early involvement with drugs and sexual promiscuity. She has almost no life skills and is surrounded by people who have many of the same issues. It almost doesn't matter if she is psychopathic; how would she ever find the resources to get psychiatric help, let alone the will to do so or the fortitude it takes to look inward?

Having been a theraputic foster parent and victims advocate...I can tell you that many Psychiatrists will lean towards a diagnosis in a child as young as 9 with the proviso that continued symptomatic behavior continues past 18. Inpatient, Locked Group facilities and out patient. Getting these children all the resources they need for help is the best we could do. We were successful ingetting help for two...and lost out on the chance to help one who according to her psychiatrist from 5 on was indicating attachment disorder and sociopathy. Same diagnosis remains today at 28.

 

[Kimster]

Stilettos, I was once told by a psychologist friend of mine that untreated Attachment Disorder can lead to being a sociopath. Is that just one of those "opinions" out there, or do you know it to be a fact?

 

[pip]

I think mixed viewpoints of her psychiatric diagnosis/s here go hand in hand with beliefs as to whether she is guilty of murder, an accomplice to the murder, an accomplice by lying only, or is a patsy for the crime and not involved at all.
It's easy to see what potential psychiatric issues may arise when raised in a family like hers, but it is not an absolute that she does or will have those diagnosis/s.
JMO.

 

[stilettos]

Stilettos, I was once told by a psychologist friend of mine that untreated Attachment Disorder can lead to being a sociopath. Is that just one of those "opinions" out there, or do you know it to be a fact?

In the opinion of the five psychiatrists that worked with my child....from 9-19 when she legally was able to refuse treatment....she had attachment disorder/possible BPD or sociopathy. During the first years when three diagnosed her as attachment/sociopathic awaiting continued symptomatic behavior, they were in agreement. I am sure that there are dissenting views in the mental health community on diagnosing children this young...the issues of releasing these medical opinions were the safety in the home of the parents and other children. We are still in contact with 4 of the five Doctors who actually became friends of our family. we continue in support groups to help adult parents of grown children with these disorders. Since that time we have both been certified Mental Health Counselors and Ordained Ministers trained to help children in crisis. many of the children that present with these symptoms are not accepted in stable foster homes...not adopted and left in group locked facilities for many, many years. One of our Foster children we later adopted was either in a locked residential facility or passed back their from foster parents who found her to difficult to love...from 2-11. We took her and yes, she did have to go back to residential once and juvie once....but she knew love and that we fought for her to get help...she is now 29. Lives in Jax and makes jewelry and has a gourmet Dog treat shop.

 

[Tinsel]

If you can let goons walk out of a house with a baby girl and not dial 911, play innocent for over a year, actually go about life having fun--you are the same as a murderer, IMO.:twocents:

 

[OneLostGrl]

In the opinion of the five psychiatrists that worked with my child....from 9-19 when she legally was able to refuse treatment....she had attachment disorder/possible BPD or sociopathy. During the first years when three diagnosed her as attachment/sociopathic awaiting continued symptomatic behavior, they were in agreement. I am sure that there are dissenting views in the mental health community on diagnosing children this young...the issues of releasing these medical opinions were the safety in the home of the parents and other children. We are still in contact with 4 of the five Doctors who actually became friends of our family. we continue in support groups to help adult parents of grown children with these disorders. Since that time we have both been certified Mental Health Counselors and Ordained Ministers trained to help children in crisis. many of the children that present with these symptoms are not accepted in stable foster homes...not adopted and left in group locked facilities for many, many years. One of our Foster children we later adopted was either in a locked residential facility or passed back their from foster parents who found her to difficult to love...from 2-11. We took her and yes, she did have to go back to residential once and juvie once....but she knew love and that we fought for her to get help...she is now 29. Lives in Jax and makes jewelry and has a gourmet Dog treat shop.

That is great- that she is doing so well!! :blowkiss:

 

[abbra]

Comments posted here are typical of Generational Welfare Famlies and their patterns of behavior. Does anyone know if Misty Croslin is an offspring of such a lifestyle?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Comments posted here are typical of Generational Welfare Famlies and their patterns of behavior. Does anyone know if Misty Croslin is an offspring of such a lifestyle?

Probably. Drugs too probably.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I took an Abnormal Psych course back in college, and when I first read the Antisocial Personality Disorder description then, my first thought was- Wow, that describes a lot of the over-indulged, under-disciplined teenagers I've known. I feel no different now than I did then. And I was basing this on observations of their regular life over a span of time, not just their behavior since a certain incident had occured.

Yeah.. a lot of people confuse ASPD and psychopath/sociopath. A huge amount of the prison population has ASPD.

~snip~

" Prevalence studies suggest that up to 70-80% of prison inmates meet criteria for ASPD but only 20% display elevated psychopathic traits (Hare, 1998)."...
http://www.psychotherapybrownbag.com/psychotherapy_brown_bag_a/2009/04/what-is-a-psychopath.html

 

[mistressammie]

I think Misty is a very immature teenager, who suffers from a lack of education & coping skills. I think she was victimized as a child, & learned to disconnect from problems & I think this is why she seems shallow. She chooses to NOT FACE NEGATIVITY, & since her life is full of nothing but negativity right now, she resides in la la land. I think she lets men & other adults use her, because being victimized is the norm for her. So, when Ron hired 2 lawyers, to her 0, & she flippantly popped off, that innocent people didn't need lawyers, she didn't realize that she was being victimized & left in the dust. She said that Ronald wasn't calling her the 'dumb bi**h', but was referring to the 911 operator. He obviously gave her that glib explanation, & she bought it. She has very little reasoning skills, & doesn't see farther into the future, than the front of her face. Promiscuous? Yes, but most molest survivors are. The same with the drug use. Plus, she was raised in a home, where drugs weren't the exception to the rule. I think most of her control problems, stem from lax parenting, as does her lack of life plan & parasitic lifestyle. Her whole family lives like that. As for being manipulative? no more than the average teenager, especially one who was deprived as a child & has been fending for herself. I do see her as being easily manipulated. As for lack of remorse shame or guilt? I don't know about that one.

I couldn't agree more with this assessment. I think it's possible that Misty has an attachment disorder and issues stemming from childhood. I don't see her as cold or callous and in my opinion, the poster child for sociopaths (Casey Anthony) and Misty are like night and day.

I've gone back and forth and back and forth on what Misty may be responsible for when it comes to poor Haleigh's disappearance and while I still don't have a firm belief in that regard, I do feel this: if Misty did something terrible to Haleigh, or (the more likely scenario) helped cover for someone who did something terrible to Haleigh, it probably wasn't for her own benefit.

More likely, she did what she did to remain loyal/stay on the good side of/hold on to the affection from someone else. I can't help but feel sorry for Misty. I don't think she ever had a chance, either. That said, if she was in any way responsible for Haleigh's disappearance, she deserves to be punished accordingly. But as for being a sociopath, no I don't think she is. MOO

 

[Granna6]

Grifters..just add the illegal drugs in. Lots of that in multi generations in families down there....and NO you do not turn on them.

I've listened closely to Misty's published jailhouse conversations with her mom. I think that her mom has babied, enabled, and coddled Misty from day one. It's almost as though her mom is afraid of her in some way. She affirms any and everything that Misty says, with comments like "I know, baby," "You're right, baby." And Misty orders her around like she's her personal servant. Who's the parent here! I've also taken note of all the actions by the seemingly increasing number of feral kids in American society who do unconscienable things to the elderly and others. Seems that in every case, parents step in as the enablers that they've always been. In these so-called multigenerational welfare families, sometimes it takes just ONE person to look at him- or herself and saying, "This whole thing ends with ME. I refuse to perpetuate it anymore. The problem is with ME, not LE and everyone else in the society."