ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #11

[Dushi]

And from what I've read, the reason Baby Beach is popular is because the waters are shallow and calm. Not Nanki / Rogers Beach, but Baby Beach, as you say, they are separate.

My point I guess is that GG had done the research and knew the difference.

So are you now leaning towards RG did go into the water in this area?

Because regardless of currents carrying a body to or from shore, there are still witnesses who say they left and never got in the water


I am more confused than ever:banghead:

 

[neesaki]

So are you now leaning towards RG did go into the water in this area?

Because regardless of currents carrying a body to or from shore, there are still witnesses who say they left and never got in the water


I am more confused than ever:banghead:

Lol, sorry about the confusion. No, not at all. In my previous post I was just looking at it from a "what if" standpoint in which I stated,

I also think that if this is what happened, it was no accident. jmo

I just believe that GG chose that area to claim that's where they went in the water. Since it has less people and has different conditions, currents, etc., maybe he believed it would make his story more plausible and his lies less unbelievable. Versus Baby Beach which is too shallow, calm and more populated.

 

[LambChop]

We know for sure GG is a con artist. If he did not want her body to be found it would stand to reason he would have S&R and LE looking in the wrong direction. This would go along with witnesses reporting they saw him leave. The fact LE never found her body gives more credibility that the witnesses were correct. GG's experience with diving and snorkeling (for years) makes his story that this was a good place to bring someone inexperienced to snorkel suspect. There are many, many reasons to believe RG did not go into the water at Baby Beach and only one reason (GG's statement) to think she did. GG is a person who has no credibility, none and apparently his story of what happened was so bad LE was able to detain him for over 3 months.

One of the witnesses was a fisherman who was in his boat and reports he saw them leave. If they had been in the water and we know he was fishing at that spot where she supposedly disappeared wouldn't he have noticed. Wouldn't GG have noticed the boat? GG claimed on GMA that LE said there was a boat in the water but he did not see it. Just another hole in his story. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I don't believe I ever heard T. Stein state it was his personal opinion about the current activity that day. Since S&R would depend on instrumentation to tell them wind direction, currents, tides, etc. in order to determine where it is best to look for a body IMO T. Stein went to the experts to gather that information to present to the judge. If there is information otherwise I would certainly be interested in reading it. With so much scientific information available today I can't see LE raising a finger in the air to determine the wind velocity while they are in the process of conducting a very serious investigation into a possible murder. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Lol, sorry about the confusion. No, not at all. In my previous post I was just looking at it from a "what if" standpoint in which I stated,

I just believe that GG chose that area to claim that's where they went in the water. Since it has less people and has different conditions, currents, etc., maybe he believed it would make his story more plausible and his lies less unbelievable. Versus Baby Beach which is too shallow, calm and more populated.

SO appreciate the what if!!

 

[Dushi]

We know for sure GG is a con artist. If he did not want her body to be found it would stand to reason he would have S&R and LE looking in the wrong direction. This would go along with witnesses reporting they saw him leave. The fact LE never found her body gives more credibility that the witnesses were correct. GG's experience with diving and snorkeling (for years) makes his story that this was a good place to bring someone inexperienced to snorkel suspect. There are many, many reasons to believe RG did not go into the water at Baby Beach and only one reason (GG's statement) to think she did. GG is a person who has no credibility, none and apparently his story of what happened was so bad LE was able to detain him for over 3 months.

One of the witnesses was a fisherman who was in his boat and reports he saw them leave. If they had been in the water and we know he was fishing at that spot where she supposedly disappeared wouldn't he have noticed. Wouldn't GG have noticed the boat? GG claimed on GMA that LE said there was a boat in the water but he did not see it. Just another hole in his story. jmo

Yeah, the man is an accomplished liar
Yet, you base so much of your theory on him

looking at all of the info has been quite good, its not an opinion as much as it is an elimanation
Its been so refreshing and its really good to hear ALL theories and opinions

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, the man is an accomplished liar
Yet, you base so much of your theory on him

looking at all of the info has been quite good, its not an opinion as much as it is an elimanation
Its been so refreshing and its really good to hear ALL theories and opinions

Of course theories are based on what he has said. How else can you prove or disprove his statement? He is the only one who knows what happened. I base my theories on the possibilities with information we have available to come to a conclusion and all views are helpful. I trust more on the side of LE than anything GG has said but in order to look at what the inconsistencies are you first have to consider what he has stated compared to what has been reported (which we know is very little). We really don't have much of anything but theories.

I don't think LE set out to disprove GG's statement until the witnesses started to come forward. I believe the witness statements are very important and I would certainly trust their statements against GG. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Of course theories are based on what he has said. How else can you prove or disprove his statement? He is the only one who knows what happened. I base my theories on the possibilities with information we have available to come to a conclusion and all views are helpful. I trust more on the side of LE than anything GG has said but in order to look at what the inconsistencies are you first have to consider what he has stated compared to what has been reported (which we know is very little). We really don't have much of anything but theories.
I don't think LE set out to disprove GG's statement until the witnesses started to come forward. I believe the witness statements are very important and I would certainly trust their statements against GG. jmo

But isn't it nice to look at all scenarios rather than get stuck on a thought and never budge?

All views are helpful whether they support our personal theory or not

So much that has been reported has been sketchy so if we accept it without question..


I would believe witness statements also but as of yet, I have not seen them, only bits that have been reported , some , many , by a source close to the investigation

The man is a criminal and a liar IMO , I am still not 100% sure he is a murderer
Too many questions still remain for me.
But, whatever... How much can you argue....

I appreciate all of those who are certain of his guilt
I expect a crime has been committed , but I am still looking at all scenarios and not just those that are drilled into me

I am still willing to look at everything rather than discard what doesn't fit how I think

If someone comes to me and says a S and R person says there are currents, well, I will look at it , not about to throw it away because someone who has no experience repeats over and over it can't be

I may not believe it to be fact, but I am going to consider it
Dam* right

 

[LambChop]

No one is drilling anyone and if that is their preception they can just choose not to read a person's post. Someone presents a theory and someone else comes back to counter that theory. That is the purpose of a forum. At some point these theories form some type of logic and begin to make sense. Unless someone provides a link to disprove a post or a theory it's just bouncing info back and forth, one theory against another. They're all just different points of view.

No one has to believe the witnesses, that is a personal choice but they were a big part of why GG was detained for further investigation, IMO. We heard from Mr. Silva's own mouth that he saw them leave but if someone chooses to believe Mr. Silva was not being truthful that is their opinion. I have mine which I feel Mr. Silva was being truthful, I feel the fisherman on the boat was being truthful, I feel the fisherman on the beach was being truthful and the dive shop owner, too. I believe they all were being truthful when they gave their statements. When it comes to LE I don't think most people would volunteer a statement (and it appears they did all came forward voluntarily) and then lie about it. They were all pretty consistent according to GMA who read those statements. I think we all believe there are still honest people in this world.

I guess I'm more inclined to believe 3 or 4 people who said GG and RG left in their rental car than I am to believe that they were there all the time on the beach as GG has stated. In the US if GG were in court this would be considered the preponderence of evidence to prove GG was lying.

We all want to find out what happened to Robyn and exploring all the possibilities should be considered and this is what I see. When I put JMO at the end of my post I am expressing my opinion, only. And this is all JMOO. FYI: One of the courses I took in college was Oceanography and that included currents. It was not my major so I'm not an expert but know enough that most bodies come back into shore when a person drowns that close to the beach and that is why I'm inclinded to believe what T. Stein is saying is true.

 

[neesaki]

[/B]But isn't it nice to look at all scenarios rather than get stuck on a thought and never budge?

All views are helpful whether they support our personal theory or not

So much that has been reported has been sketchy so if we accept it without question..


I would believe witness statements also but as of yet, I have not seen them, only bits that have been reported , some , many , by a source close to the investigation

The man is a criminal and a liar IMO , I am still not 100% sure he is a murderer
Too many questions still remain for me.
But, whatever... How much can you argue....

I appreciate all of those who are certain of his guilt
I expect a crime has been committed , but I am still looking at all scenarios and not just those that are drilled into me

I am still willing to look at everything rather than discard what doesn't fit how I think

If someone comes to me and says a S and R person says there are currents, well, I will look at it , not about to throw it away because someone who has no experience repeats over and over it can't be

I may not believe it to be fact, but I am going to consider it
Dam* right

ITA at least with what is in bold. I'm sure it's no secret that I personally hold the opinion that Robyn is a victim at the hand of what I consider to be a guilty man, Gary Giordano. I also realize there are very few hard and true facts in this case and see it as really unfortunate that all we have to go on is the little information we have gotten from the MSM and the non-MSM (NE, etc.). And then there is of course, our own gut instincts which may be more valuable than we think.

Regardless of the opinion if it does or doesn't agree with mine, I still appreciate hearing them and think we should discuss them all. Anything that keeps those neurotransmitters firing and the discussion going. After all, when we stop talking about it, what will happen to Robyn? Will she just completely disappear and become one of those forever cold cases??? Which is exactly what Gary Giordano would want. :twocents:

 

[neesaki]

No one is drilling anyone and if that is their preception they can just choose not to read a person's post. Someone presents a theory and someone else comes back to counter that theory. That is the purpose of a forum. At some point these theories form some type of logic and begin to make sense. Unless someone provides a link to disprove a post or a theory it's just bouncing info back and forth, one theory against another. They're all just different points of view.

No one has to believe the witnesses, that is a personal choice but they were a big part of why GG was detained for further investigation, IMO. We heard from Mr. Silva's own mouth that he saw them leave but if someone chooses to believe Mr. Silva was not being truthful that is their opinion. I have mine which I feel Mr. Silva was being truthful, I feel the fisherman on the boat was being truthful, I feel the fisherman on the beach was being truthful and the dive shop owner, too. I believe they all were being truthful when they gave their statements. When it comes to LE I don't think most people would volunteer a statement (and it appears they did all came forward voluntarily) and then lie about it. They were all pretty consistent according to GMA who read those statements. I think we all believe there are still honest people in this world.

I guess I'm more inclined to believe 3 or 4 people who said GG and RG left in their rental car than I am to believe that they were there all the time on the beach as GG has stated. In the US if GG were in court this would be considered the preponderence of evidence to prove GG was lying.

We all want to find out what happened to Robyn and exploring all the possibilities should be considered and this is what I see. When I put JMO at the end of my post I am expressing my opinion, only. And this is all JMOO. FYI: One of the courses I took in college was Oceanography and that included currents. It was not my major so I'm not an expert but know enough that most bodies come back into shore when a person drowns that close to the beach and that is why I'm inclinded to believe what T. Stein is saying is true.

Good points, thanks LC. :seeya:

 

[neesaki]

Yes Neesaki its an area
Its that whole area from baby Beach, over to rogers


And as far as the view,thats reality
Regardless of the refinery, Baby Beach is very popular with tourists

Its an eyesore but has employed many people long before tourism was viable on the Island
Nato went to Aruba for many years because of the refinery


Nanki is separate from Baby Beach but right beside it and yes, the other side of the breakwater

Speaking of which, I came across this during my research. Not good, certainly not for the Aruban job market. Another sign of the times.

March 19, 2012
Valero to close Aruba refinery
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57399799/valero-to-close-aruba-refinery/

 

[Blueskies]

No one is drilling anyone and if that is their preception they can just choose not to read a person's post. Someone presents a theory and someone else comes back to counter that theory. That is the purpose of a forum. At some point these theories form some type of logic and begin to make sense. Unless someone provides a link to disprove a post or a theory it's just bouncing info back and forth, one theory against another. They're all just different points of view.

No one has to believe the witnesses, that is a personal choice but they were a big part of why GG was detained for further investigation, IMO. We heard from Mr. Silva's own mouth that he saw them leave but if someone chooses to believe Mr. Silva was not being truthful that is their opinion. I have mine which I feel Mr. Silva was being truthful, I feel the fisherman on the boat was being truthful, I feel the fisherman on the beach was being truthful and the dive shop owner, too. I believe they all were being truthful when they gave their statements. When it comes to LE I don't think most people would volunteer a statement (and it appears they did all came forward voluntarily) and then lie about it. They were all pretty consistent according to GMA who read those statements. I think we all believe there are still honest people in this world.

I guess I'm more inclined to believe 3 or 4 people who said GG and RG left in their rental car than I am to believe that they were there all the time on the beach as GG has stated. In the US if GG were in court this would be considered the preponderence of evidence to prove GG was lying.

We all want to find out what happened to Robyn and exploring all the possibilities should be considered and this is what I see. When I put JMO at the end of my post I am expressing my opinion, only. And this is all JMOO. FYI: One of the courses I took in college was Oceanography and that included currents. It was not my major so I'm not an expert but know enough that most bodies come back into shore when a person drowns that close to the beach and that is why I'm inclinded to believe what T. Stein is saying is true.

Really a good post Lambchop and i agree with you on all points.

What did you mean in the bold "and then lie about it"? TIA

I also think they left in the car and its why I was so intrigued with mr.Silva and his detailed story...And also that Amigoe article about GG arriving and leaving after 10 minutes.

But I still fail to see anyone else besides Mr.Silva saying they saw them leave in the car. If it's true then the ALE would not have been searching the ocean two months later..IMO..I think it's likely but from everything I've read no one else saw them leave in the car or go in the water. The NE articles are not real to me and I dont count that beating and burial by the dog graves as a real witness that came forward to the ALE.

 

[neesaki]

Really a good post Lambchops and i agree with you on all points.

What did you mean in the bold "and then lie about it"? TIA

I also think they left in the car and its why I was so intrigued with mr.Silva and his detailed story...And also that Amigoe article about GG arriving and leaving after 10 minutes.

But I still fail to see anyone else besides Mr.Silva saying they saw them leave in the car. If it's true then the ALE would not have been searching the ocean two months later..IMO..I think it's likely but from everything I've read no one else saw them leave in the car or go in the water. The NE articles are not real to me and I dont count that beating and burial by the dog graves as a real witness that came forward to the ALE.

The witnesses are not always named, as in this article, making it difficult to discern who the witness actually is:
New Witness Disputes Gary Giordano's Claims in Case of Missing Woman in Aruba
http://abcnews.go.com/International...-missing-woman/story?id=14350220#.T2f1Em2jKSp

 

[neesaki]

Have yet to find the link for the other fisherman witness /witnesses. But here is one for Silva:

Robyn Gardner Missing: Aruban Fisherman Says He Saw Maryland Tourist And Gary Giordano On Beach

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/26/robyn-gardner-fisherman_n_938285.html

Interesting, this in bold: (BBM)

Last year, Giordano launched a $5 million lawsuit against a staffing company, according to a separate ABC News report. A lawyer representing that company told the network that Giordano falsified a contract and sued when the company didn't abide by it.

"I absolutely believe that Mr. Giordano, based on my experience defending my client, that he is capable of manufacturing out of whole cloth a story and then pursuing it to abnormal ends," attorney Thomas Murphy told ABC News.

 

[Blueskies]

The witnesses are not always named, as in this article, making it difficult to discern who the witness actually is:
New Witness Disputes Gary Giordano's Claims in Case of Missing Woman in Aruba
http://abcnews.go.com/International...-missing-woman/story?id=14350220#.T2f1Em2jKSp

The witness says he was fishing on a beach on that day and he saw the two take a walk along the reef around 4 p.m., but they never went in the water.

A short time later, the couple drove away and he never saw either of them again, the witness says.
============

Your right as that article mentions a fisherman who saw them leave. It's the same reports about the same guy Mr.Silva..IMO..Granted there were other witnesses who saw them walking,or at the shore or in the restaurant. And even another fisherman..But only this one witness saw them leave the area in a car. And no one saw them in the water. IMO

If they never left in the car and they never went in the water. The only other scenario that makes sense to me is she left in another car or she took a boat ride off the shore or by that nearby pier/dock a couple hundred yards away. Maybe thats why he changed his story about how his shoes and socks got soaking wet? JMHO

 

[Blueskies]

Have yet to find the link for the other fisherman witness /witnesses. But here is one for Silva:

Robyn Gardner Missing: Aruban Fisherman Says He Saw Maryland Tourist And Gary Giordano On Beach

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/26/robyn-gardner-fisherman_n_938285.html

Interesting, this in bold: (BBM)

It is interesting. His defense Atty from his divorce said nothing Giordano did wasn't well planned out as he thought out everything.

I still believe GG committed a crime and it was meticulous and planned this out. Makes sense after seeing the dry run two says in row and everything else we have discussed..IMO

 

[neesaki]

Strange, I still haven't found any reports about the other fisherman witnesses. :waitasec: This is an interesting one though.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/12/robyn-gardner-missing-fbi_n_925213.html

Robyn Gardner Missing: FBI Aids Aruba In Investigation Of American Tourist's Disappearance

Giordano told police Gardner disappeared while snorkeling, but Forester, Jones and Gardner's brother Andrew Colson all said she wasn't usually that adventurous.

"Robyn's more of a lay-by-the-pool kind of gal," Jones said.

The prosecutor would not disclose their specific doubts, fearing it could undermine the investigation, but one of them is fairly basic: So far, there are no witnesses who saw the pair go snorkeling.

 

[Blueskies]

Speaking of which, I came across this during my research. Not good, certainly not for the Aruban job market. Another sign of the times.

March 19, 2012
Valero to close Aruba refinery
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57399799/valero-to-close-aruba-refinery/

Sign of the times is right as that was a big part of the old Aruba that did employ a lot of people. Valero had been struggling for years and unfortunately i think this was inevitable.

As you know there's a great view of the smoke stacks from the location GG and Robyn were last seen at.

 

[neesaki]

I can't believe it. I still can't find the links for the reports about the other fisherman. I must be losing it, lol:::banghead: