AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #6

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Imo bikies while involved in criminal activities and the drug trade wouldnt of done this. Ive grown up amongst some of them and known a lot of them for most of my life .
I have never known any to actually hurt children in fact the opposite . The ones ive known have always been protective of children .
It goes against most of their codes .
I think it was drug running but not for bikers . For another group entirely

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You're right, it doesn't make sense, yet people do it. There was another case in the last couple of months where a young woman was murdered and a relative(?) of the killer was caught on cctv accessing her bank account. I can't remember the name or many details but it was recent and I think it was in SA. There are lots of cases where murder and fraud go hand in hand.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-30/woman-accused-of-using-jody-meyers-atm-card-in-court/6816126

I think the point of that ATM withdrawal was to make the police think Jody was still alive the next day.
Certainly there are parallels.
 
A labourer is someone who should be on wages. It doesn't denote you have a business. There is criteria that must be fullfilled via the ATO website.

Some businesses hire all sorts of people on ABN's all the time as independent contractors so they don't have to pay wages and all the associated costs, I absolutely agree that labourers should be on a wage, but many employees find their way around it, and people go along and work under these conditions because they would rather have the work than not.

It totally sucks, but that's the reality of todays workforce, especially in country areas.
 
A labourer is someone who should be on wages. It doesn't denote you have a business. There is criteria that must be fullfilled via the ATO website.

Thanks Crabby. I'm still a bit lost. You don't have to be an employee to be a labourer - you can get an ABN and work as a contractor.
 
Imo bikies while involved in criminal activities and the drug trade wouldnt of done this. Ive grown up amongst some of them and known a lot of them for most of my life .
I have never known any to actually hurt children in fact the opposite . The ones ive known have always been protective of children .
It goes against most of their codes .
I think it was drug running but not for bikers . For another group entirely

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Agreed. But I also don't think it's the direct cause for the murder.

I think we are reading way too much into this "story" and drug debt palaver. It's a red herring and bordering on victim abuse and quite cruel to K&K's surviving family. The unnamed source is far from credible in my view.

I'm going to reserve judgement until the next police statement. Whenever that may be.


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I don't think it was the dentistry that made them think she was foreign, it was the isotope analysis.

"Detectives had made enquiries with dentists local to the Southern Highlands in the hope dental comparisons might help to identify the female, but had so far been unsuccessful.

“The female’s teeth show signs of dental work typical of Western dentistry and commonly carried out in Australia, but so far we’ve been unable to match them with dental records,” he said."

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...glo-state-forest/story-e6frfkvr-1226212134175

Thank you. That makes so much more sense and obviously a wrong assumption on my part :-( I am not as familiar with Karlie's case as I am with the Wynarka part of the case.
 
They compared her teeth to dental records in the Southern Highlands (the area of NSW near the Belanglo Forest) - they probably didn't even think of looking as far afield as Alice Springs.

IMO the killer is quite brazen.
i mean, you have to keep your parameters wide open, but placement in Belanglo to me screams, 'look at me, look what I've done'

And the person started using the card straight after. 16th and 19th in Canberra and then 22nd in Adelaide.

Arrogant? Stupid? Or two different people.
 
Agreed. But I also don't think it's the direct cause for the murder.

I think we are reading way too much into this "story" and drug debt palaver. It's a red herring and bordering on victim abuse and quite cruel to K&K's surviving family. The unnamed source is far from credible in my view.

I'm going to reserve judgement until the next police statement. Whenever that may be.


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I agree . Its too easy for this story to turn against karlie . Ultimately whoever did this and why they did this is wrong. No matter what spin people put on it (crimestoppers caller)

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-30/woman-accused-of-using-jody-meyers-atm-card-in-court/6816126

I think the point of that ATM withdrawal was to make the police think Jody was still alive the next day.
Certainly there are parallels.
yep, although when someone is going to be missed its the dumbest thing you can do. do people not know there are cameras at ATMs?

its very hard to remember the timeline of everything but did KPS card get used more after her body was found and was not able to be identified? this would make sense for those with access to start being bolder and take more risks with the money, they've just been damn lucky she wasn't identified earlier as this would have been discovered straight away similar to the Jody Meyers case.
 
I think it is best to stick to the facts as we know them. There is no indication, nor has it been reported that bikies are involved in this case. Continuing a discussion about the involvement of bikies is only going to move the thread way off topic.
 
What are you saying? Bikers aren't involved in crime? Or bikers arent involved in drag racing?

http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/...-methamphetamine-seized-in-joint-wa-operation

No that is definitely not what I'm saying LOL. In fact I'm saying just the opposite. From the beginning I have thought the violence of the killing and possible fraud and drug links were very likely to be at the hands of outlaw bikie gangs. As a result I've been looking for all the usual hallmarks associated with bikie crime (the most important one being that some some of the suspects and persons of interest have some sort of interest or ownership of motor bikes). It is entirely my own opinion but my general impression is that everyone discussed in MSM seems to be associated with cars rather than motor bikes. Bikie links could very well become evident as more is revealed of course.

EDIT: Just read Makara's post above and now zipping my mouth entirely on the subject of bikies :shush:
 
If there was a debt--it might have been to short-term lenders with high interest rates who added interest to principal and let it accumulate, then sent some rough collectors after Karlie. Whether she spent the money on drugs or living expenses might have nothing to do with it.
 
I think it is best to stick to the facts as we know them. There is no indication, nor has it been reported that bikies are involved in this case. Continuing a discussion about the involvement of bikies is only going to move the thread way off topic.

There is some sort of link though, as Puggle pointed out in a post earlier.

Earlier in her life in Alice Springs, Karlie was involved in a relationship with a man (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4337535.htm) who later murdered his estranged wife.

When his wife's body was discovered in her home, the man claimed she had been murdered by "bikies" with whom they were both associated (http://www.supremecourt.nt.gov.au/documents/judgements/2014/NTSC-26-R-v-Darren-Ashley.pdf)

Turned out the evidence to convict the estranged husband was easily found in that case.

But is it a stretch to think that if they associated with bikies perhaps Karlie did too.

MODS: By all means, delete this post if you think it is irrelevant, but I just wanted to point out a tenuous link.
 
There is some sort of link though, as Puggle pointed out in a post earlier.

Earlier in her life in Alice Springs, Karlie was involved in a relationship with a man (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4337535.htm) who later murdered his estranged wife.

When his wife's body was discovered in her home, the man claimed she had been murdered by "bikies" with whom they were both associated (http://www.supremecourt.nt.gov.au/documents/judgements/2014/NTSC-26-R-v-Darren-Ashley.pdf)

Turned out the evidence to convict the estranged husband was easily found in that case.

But is it a stretch to think that if they associated with bikies perhaps Karlie did too.

MODS: By all means, delete this post if you think it is irrelevant, but I just wanted to point out a tenuous link.

Darren Ashley murdered his wife years after Karlie's murder. His alleged involvement with bikies has nothing to do with this case and has no sound basis or reasoning whatsoever.
 
Some businesses hire all sorts of people on ABN's all the time as independent contractors so they don't have to pay wages and all the associated costs, I absolutely agree that labourers should be on a wage, but many employees find their way around it, and people go along and work under these conditions because they would rather have the work than not.

It totally sucks, but that's the reality of todays workforce, especially in country areas.

When ATO does audits, especially relating to sub contractors with ABNs, working for a company, it can often find that the sub contractors are in fact employees, and will deem them as such. It all depends how much control the subcontractors have over the work they perform. If they actually have little control over the aspects of their work and are directed by the principal on a daily basis, down to wearing uniform with company logo etc, then their work basis is deemed to be that of an employee, and the company will become liable for workcover, superannuation, annual leave, sick leave and PAYG withholding tax, just the same as an employee. Companies do this to avoid all the above taxes and conditions of having an employee. But as aforesaid the test is about control and how much control the 'subcontractor' has. If little or no control, then deemed an employee. If can decide when to work and when to not work etc, then a subcontractor. ABNs will be cancelled by the ATO when a 'subcontractor' is found/deemed to be an employee.
 
Not following?


Apologies for the extreme vagueness of that post & late response with this one. I posted a fuller explanation with links in the last thread & wasn't sure about doing it a second time. This thread's so fast-moving though that I guess it's best to err on the side of caution, so if it happens in future, I'll just link my old post.


In the meantime I'll try & make a bit more sense here :




Before the calls came in that identified Karlie & Khandalyce & linked the 2 cases, I'd been wondering why they were discussing all sorts of cross-checking between govt records & going to extremes with data- matching etc that had never been used in an Aus unidentified case before, yet they never even mentioned facial reconstruction as a possibility? (I have some background in physical & forensic anthropology, partial only, didn't finish my degree, but I have friends who work in the field & it remains an interest of mine, so these weren't completely random wonderings).

I moved on though & didn't think much about it until someone posted in the last thread re the "missing item". At that point I thought back to those early appeals by police, where they asked for the person who may have removed something important from the suitcase, to please come forward. Like many others I wondered what item could be removed in a situation like this, that by it's very absence, from a scene police had never viewed before made immediately clear the following things :

the fact it existed at all, it's general importance, it's relevance to the case, AND the knowledge that it went missing after the suitcase was left by the road, rather than being taken beforehand by the person who dumped it.


A while ago the Canadian case of Ramsey Rioux & Kenneth Lutes ran on CI down here, & when I thought about the missing item this time, I found myself suddenly remembering this case & why it had stalled for years - a man found Kenneth's skull in the woods & thought it looked cool, so rather than calling police, he took it home where he promptly forgot all about it

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-darker-side-of-stanley-park/article13942211/

http://lawandordnance.com/The-Mystery-Of-Stanley-Park.html




If
something like this had happened at Wynarka, it would explain why/how police knew something was missing & that it was taken after the suitcase was placed by the road & not before. It would explain them not discussing facial reconstruction as a future possibility if the child remained unidentified. It would also explain how so many people could rummage through/around the suitcase & fail to realise the bones were human.

**Overnight though I've become a lot less worried that this might've happened. I hadn't seen the police quote using the word "value" or "valuable" in relation to the missing item. I agree with others that this makes it sound as though the missing item had a monetary value


- & if that's the case, we can immediately dismiss all of the above.



Edit & obviously, as hideoustroll points out "complete skeleton" is a pretty good reason for dismissal too
 
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