AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

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Puggle said:
Funnily enough Trooper you may not even realise there could be a connection ..... Weirder things in life happen all the time.
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Statistically... it isn't an impossibility, its only improbable.. South Australia has a very small population in relation to area. .. and in some ways, so does the ACT but it is overall more densely populated.. there are about 1.7 million people in South AU, and about 387,ooo in the ACT... so it could be argued that there is more relativity in SA , than in the ACT. and also, more in both of those than in the 7 states. Although less that in the Northern territory.

On that basis, its a bit disturbing to find so many murderers in small catchment area, population wise, really. But since Holdom originally comes from Orange NSW and Hazel comes from Tin Can Bay , QLD, its not as if either of them have a long generational attachment to either the ACT or SA.
 
Trooper said:
Statistically... it isn't an impossibility, its only improbable.. South Australia has a very small population in relation to area. .. and in some ways, so does the ACT but it is overall more densely populated.. there are about 1.7 million people in South AU, and about 387,ooo in the ACT... so it could be argued that there is more relativity in SA , than in the ACT. and also, more in both of those than in the 7 states. Although less that in the Northern territory.

On that basis, its a bit disturbing to find so many murderers in small catchment area, population wise, really. But since Holdom originally comes from Orange NSW and Hazel comes from Tin Can Bay , QLD, its not as if either of them have a long generational attachment to either the ACT or SA.
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I have to agree that there are certainly less than 6 degrees of separation here in SA. More like 4.
 
JLZ said:
I take it that Trooper's point wasn't that this or that other criminal might be responsible, but that the factors I mentioned are widespread and therefore their being common to Snowtown and Karlie/Khandalyce is of no significance.
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Never be to sure... or discount an Idea because it may seem "Far Out of left Field"...or even what others may consider wacky..

I love it when people think outside the box...
 
Puggle said:
Never be to sure... or discount an Idea because it may seem "Far Out of left Field"...or even what others may consider wacky..

I love it when people think outside the box...
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That's true. You never can tell what or who might be connected.
 
JLZ said:
I take it that Trooper's point wasn't that this or that other criminal might be responsible, but that the factors I mentioned are widespread and therefore their being common to Snowtown and Karlie/Khandalyce is of no significance.
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yes, JLZ. the common factor is bodies, plural, and triple, etc. One of the factors against bringing Snowtown into this is those blokes killed men and women.. you could say their tastes were gender-equalised. Whereas , this crime has two female victims, one a very small child. But Female. And the Family 's victims were young men, so I gave a wrong steer there.. and of course, the Truro bloke was into killing women, but as we all know now he is dead, and so is his accomplice..

Each murderer is unique but murder, in and of itself is as old as humanity, and the only variation a murderer can achieve is by technological advances, and progressive ease of access to weaponry, really. For centuries, the murderer had to make his exit by foot or on horse.. it's only in the last 130 years that he/she has access to the combustion engine driven vehicle. Which means, he/she can transport the body elsewhere, often quite a long way away from the murder location. The heart and mind of a murderer is the same as it ever was. Nothing new there.
 
Panda said:
Good question Puggle. Personally, I think the police would have found some evidence in the houses that they searched (specifically, the sister's). I remember them saying the searches were "very productive" or words to that effect. I also suspect they have credible witnesses who came forward. I remember also the police saying they had located people that they believed knew what had happened to Karlie and Khandalyce - once again, I don't remember exactly, but it was something along those lines - which made me think they found out a lot from someone who spilled the beans. I expect Daniel Holdom didn't have an alibi for the timeframe as well, plus the police information about him having previously been found to have Karlie's key card in his possession. They've probably got quite a list I would think. How much is hard evidence and how much is circumstantial is a matter only they know. But I feel quite confident they wouldn't have arrested him unless they had very good cause and are quite confident themselves. I note also that Daniel Holdom didn't co-operate, which to me is telling. If he was innocent, I would have thought he would want to make his case quite strongly, as well as apply for bail. But that's just my own personal take.
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Thank you for the considered reply Panda ...... I wonder if someone spilled the beans - if they have been granted immunity in some way. I agree the police wouldn't charge him without compelling evidence.... but then again I can't help wondering if there is *More* to this case....as in what may appear cut and dry...isn't or at least could possibly not be correct.

I have trouble fixing my opinion based on what has been presented so far.....and what I mean by that is...Everything as it stands centres on three Adults (and Kandalyce of course) ...but the adults...It's hard to see that their world didn't involve more interactions....and taking into consideration some MSM articles be they correct or not....gives room to have reasonable doubt and lingering questions.

For now..
 
Trooper said:
yes, JLZ. the common factor is bodies, plural, and triple, etc. One of the factors against bringing Snowtown into this is those blokes killed men and women.. you could say their tastes were gender-equalised. Whereas , this crime has two female victims, one a very small child. But Female. And the Family 's victims were young men, so I gave a wrong steer there.. and of course, the Truro bloke was into killing women, but as we all know now he is dead, and so is his accomplice..

Each murderer is unique but murder, in and of itself is as old as humanity, and the only variation a murderer can achieve is by technological advances, and progressive ease of access to weaponry, really. For centuries, the murderer had to make his exit by foot or on horse.. it's only in the last 130 years that he/she has access to the combustion engine driven vehicle. Which means, he/she can transport the body elsewhere, often quite a long way away from the murder location. The heart and mind of a murderer is the same as it ever was. Nothing new there.
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You hit the nail on the head about "technological" advances such as ATM cards, text messaging, pre-paid cell phones all used to cash in on the relatively recently created "social" welfare net - in which a single parent's identity is worth nearly $100k that we know about. People have murdered for much much less.

And if the drug debt bounty of $5k for information turns out to be true what was the payment for an extermination that also had the added benefit of years worth of a vacant identity.
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Wolfinator said:
You hit the nail on the head about "technological" advances such as ATM cards, text messaging, pre-paid cell phones all used to cash in on the relatively recently created "social" welfare net - in which a single parent's identity is worth nearly $100k that we know about. People have murdered for much much less.

And if the drug debt bounty of $5k for information turns out to be true what was the payment for an extermination that also had the added benefit of years worth of a vacant identity.
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One of the many fascinating things about this case is the number of potential motives.
 
Puggle said:
Thank you for the considered reply Panda ...... I wonder if someone spilled the beans - if they have been granted immunity in some way. I agree the police wouldn't charge him without compelling evidence.... but then again I can't help wondering if there is *More* to this case....as in what may appear cut and dry...isn't or at least could possibly not be correct.

I have trouble fixing my opinion based on what has been presented so far.....and what I mean by that is...Everything as it stands centres on three Adults (and Kandalyce of course) ...but the adults...It's hard to see that their world didn't involve more interactions....and taking into consideration some MSM articles be they correct or not....gives room to have reasonable doubt and lingering questions.

For now..
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I understand exactly what you're saying Puggle. Unfortunately I don't know what the answer is - I appreciate your view though, and by all accounts, you may be right. I try to live by the KISS principle, so my view is more limited until I have something more concrete to go on. No doubt there will be a lot of "umming" and "ahhing" when we eventually find out all the facts that go with this tragic case.
 
Trooper said:
yes, JLZ. the common factor is bodies, plural, and triple, etc. One of the factors against bringing Snowtown into this is those blokes killed men and women.. you could say their tastes were gender-equalised. Whereas , this crime has two female victims, one a very small child. But Female. And the Family 's victims were young men, so I gave a wrong steer there.. and of course, the Truro bloke was into killing women, but as we all know now he is dead, and so is his accomplice..

Each murderer is unique but murder, in and of itself is as old as humanity, and the only variation a murderer can achieve is by technological advances, and progressive ease of access to weaponry, really. For centuries, the murderer had to make his exit by foot or on horse.. it's only in the last 130 years that he/she has access to the combustion engine driven vehicle. Which means, he/she can transport the body elsewhere, often quite a long way away from the murder location. The heart and mind of a murderer is the same as it ever was. Nothing new there.
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(BBM) That would be an objection to the theory that the perpetrators are the same and the motives are the same. I'm not saying that at all. The Snowtown perpetrators are locked up or dead, I think. If they planned the K & K crime from gaol it would be from very different motives to the crimes against the earlier victims. As I said, it could be for revenge against a co-offender who later testified against them. And the similarities are not involuntary, but so that that person knows that the crimes against his relatives or connections are done by his former mates and for what reason. Alternatively, the K & K perpetrator could be a living victim of Snowtown, say a child of one of the people murdered, and K & K related to a Snowtown perpetrator. Again the reason for the similarity would be to send a message to K & K's family--this has happened to your people because of what you did to mine.

This is highly fanciful and tenuous and I've no reason to suppose that Karlie and Khandalyce were related to murderers.
 
Wolfinator said:
I see one. Money.


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it's a common principle, that people are murdered for one of three reasons, Sex, Money , and Religion.. when it's all boiled down, that's what left..

So I'm with you, Wolf ... Money ( and not a great deal of it , either.. ) .. the murder of Khandalyce , I think , is a matter of money, too.. hideous. I just don't see Sex as the driving force here. , and I discount Religion entirely.
 
JLZ said:
(BBM) That would be an objection to the theory that the perpetrators are the same and the motives are the same. I'm not saying that at all. The Snowtown perpetrators are locked up or dead, I think. If they planned the K & K crime from gaol it would be from very different motives to the crimes against the earlier victims. As I said, it could be for revenge against a co-offender who later testified against them. And the similarities are not involuntary, but so that that person knows that the crimes against his relatives or connections are done by his former mates and for what reason. Alternatively, the K & K perpetrator could be a living victim of Snowtown, say a child of one of the people murdered, and K & K related to a Snowtown perpetrator. Again the reason for the similarity would be to send a message to K & K's family--this has happened to your people because of what you did to mine.

This is highly fanciful and tenuous and I've no reason to suppose that Karlie and Khandalyce were related to murderers.
Click to expand...

well. I love a bit of the fanciful and tenuous.....:thinking: :doh: :dunno:
 
Some interesting articles give food for thought:

"In five of those 10 years, the single month with the highest incidence of murder was December."

"Police explain the warm-weather peak as resulting from anger induced by discomfort. It's hot, one citizen offends another with a hair-trigger temper, and gunshot settles the issue. Opportunity is also a factor: The woodsy, isolated areas frequented by those escaping the heat are convenient murder locales."

"Jesse sets up six categories: murder for gain, revenge, elimination, jealousy, lust of killing, and from conviction. The last category covers homicide by the state - capital punishment." (Obviously an American site - I haven't been able to find anything Australian based).

http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/murder-article.html

And this article:

"Generally speaking, homicide motives can be broken down into instrumental or expressive. According to Drawdy, Myers and Myers ("Homicide Victim/Offender Relationship in Florida Medical Examiner District 8"), instrumental homicides are motivated by gain (i.e. money or similar forms), whereas expressive homicides are emotionally-based, namely fueled by anger, and may be impulsive."

http://www.criminaljusticeschoolinfo.com/homicide.html

http://www.drsohail.com/essays.aspx/essays/seven_reasons_to_kill
 
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