Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[JBowie]

Mushroom deaths: Why families of the three lunch guests killed in Leongatha lunch have been forced to delay their funerals​

The families of three people who died after eating a poisonous mushroom lunch have been forced to wait for further police inquiries before they can bury their loved ones.

It is unclear how long the grieving family members of the three dead lunch guests will have to wait for further police inquiries into their deaths.

'The deaths are still being treated as unexplained,' a police spokesperson said.

Investigators have also said Erin remains a person of interest.

Nothing new here as to why. Another great clickbait headline by the Daily Mail.

Why families of deadly mushroom victims were forced to delay funerals

Erin Patterson, 48, cooked a beef wellington at her home in Leongatha, in Victoria's Gippsland region on July 29, that contained death cap mushrooms.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MrJ]

Haven't been keeping up with this case for quite a bit, as there's a bit of a lack of updates last time I checked and lost interest. Any new revelations in the case, or any new statements?

 

[bearbear]

So is it tonight a tv show airs in Australia?

Do we think it will have anything we don’t know?

yes tonight, i dont think therell be anything new, except in their ad theyre implying there were a number of dc mushrooms, not just one

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, I think it is good news. There should (thankfully) be a survivor - and a living witnesses about the lunch, who may be able to speak with the police soon/now. They will also be able to clarify if the children were there or not.

Has it said anywhere how old the children are?

ETA: I have found the answer, the children are in Years 7 and 5. Link
So, likely 12/13 years old and 10/11 years old.

So are they year 7 and 5 now?
The article is written in 2023 and uses the word "are".

All I can say, maybe the kids drew something, but other parts were written by adults. JMO.

The height, too...how tall do they have to be?

BTW, kids have the right to draw things. Adults, though...

 

[bearbear]

My feelings exactly. Her husband accused her of using the dehydrator in poisoning. If she didn't use the dehydrator in poisoning, what is she panicking about?

maybe protecting a family member who went foraging with her and picked the wrong mushrooms?
didnt want that person to carry that stigma all their life?

 

[SouthAussie]

So are they year 7 and 5 now?
The article is written in 2023 and uses the word "are".

All I can say, maybe the kids drew something, but other parts were written by adults. JMO.

The height, too...how tall do they have to be?

BTW, kids have the right to draw things. Adults, though...

They are in Years 7 and 5 in school. Not 7 and 5 in age.
We don't call it Grade 7 and Grade 5 in Australia. We call it Year 7 and Year 5.

In Victoria, Year 7 students are 12/13 years old, and Year 5 students are 10/11 years old.

I was interested in their ages as I wanted to see if they were old enough to go to the movies (presumably) on their own.

https://www.concordsch.vic.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Student-Age-and-Year-Level-Policy1.pdf

 

[bearbear]

in the ad for tonights under investigation, they are saying 10 or more dc musgrooms possibly used in the meal,
if thats true it might point more to intent, easy for one or two to accidentally end up in the dish but 10 is a stretch

 

[sceawian]

God help me, every time I catch up with this thread, I get the phrase "Dial M for Mushroom" stuck in my head.

 

[Ellery84]

I’d be interested to know when the dehydrator was taken to the tip. Was it before or after the guests died?
After EP’s own hospital visit? (She must have recovered quickly?)
Also, why panic about the dehydrator but willingly hand over left over beef Wellington for testing?
And how much leftovers would there have been after the Saturday luncheon and Sunday leftovers for the children? A quick google search of recipes suggests beef Wellington serves 4-6 people. I think she cooked two. One with DC mushrooms and one without.

AFAIK it was the day after the lunch.

 

[Ellery84]

Motive … retire detective says need motive. We’ve just seen baby nurse Lucy Letby convicted of murdering those babies with no motive. Possibly EP just angry about something & wanting to teach those people a lesson. She’s not much of an evil genius planner. She just wanted them ALL dead but hadn’t really thought it through.

Lucy L had a motive and so does Erin (allegedly)….

IMO

Jmo

 

[Ellery84]

They are in Years 7 and 5 in school. Not 7 and 5 in age.
We don't call it Grade 7 and Grade 5 in Australia. We call it Year 7 and Year 5.

In Victoria, Year 7 students are 12/13 years old, and Year 5 students are 10/11 years old.

I was interested in their ages as I wanted to see if they were old enough to go to the movies (presumably) on their own.

https://www.concordsch.vic.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Student-Age-and-Year-Level-Policy1.pdf

DBM

 

[JennieM]

Memorial service planned for suspected mushroom-poisoning victims Don and Gail Patterson​

[…]

A public memorial for the couple will be held at Korumburra Recreation Centre on August 31.

In a statement, a spokesperson for the family said the Pattersons were known for "their humility and the positive impact they had on those around them".

"The Patterson family has expressed their deep gratitude for the outpouring of love, support, and understanding during this challenging time," they said.

"They have been touched by the many memories and stories shared by friends, acquaintances, and even strangers who were touched by Don and Gail's kindness and generosity."

[…]

MSN

 

[jepop]

Haven't been keeping up with this case for quite a bit, as there's a bit of a lack of updates last time I checked and lost interest. Any new revelations in the case, or any new statements?

Nothing major Imo. No statements from police other than it's going to take some time. Funerals delayed. Some bits and pieces reported from unnamed family/friends re EP. A few features/stories behind paywalls. Jmo

 

[jjleroche]

maybe protecting a family member who went foraging with her and picked the wrong mushrooms?
didnt want that person to carry that stigma all their life?

Sounds plausible to me. If this occurred, I can certainly imagine panic occurring.

 

[jepop]

So are they year 7 and 5 now?
The article is written in 2023 and uses the word "are".

All I can say, maybe the kids drew something, but other parts were written by adults. JMO.

The height, too...how tall do they have to be?

BTW, kids have the right to draw things. Adults, though...

I think as with much else there are conflicting reports on how old the kids are. I've read in various sources that both are teens and recall another source saying they are 12 and 14 years old. I will try to find that source - Not the ABC - but maybe the Daily M or some other globalised news service like news.com. All to say, Imo their ages are unverified.

Personally my impresssions on the whole from my readings are that they are both in their teens Moo. As to them being reported as being in year 7 and year 5, I have no idea why other than that possibly being the age they were when the family resided in the house with the wall drawings. I don't think we know when that was exactly either though. All speculation and Moo.

 

[Ellery84]

They are in Years 7 and 5 in school. Not 7 and 5 in age.
We don't call it Grade 7 and Grade 5 in Australia. We call it Year 7 and Year 5.

In Victoria, Year 7 students are 12/13 years old, and Year 5 students are 10/11 years old.

I was interested in their ages as I wanted to see if they were old enough to go to the movies (presumably) on their own.

https://www.concordsch.vic.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Student-Age-and-Year-Level-Policy1.pdf

They are in my opinion, old enough to go to the movies on their own.

Moo

 

[Memento Mori]

There are many hard-to-explain things in the story, but her not falling seriously ill is not one of them, IMO. Firstly, were there some poison planted by someone else, it might have not been in the main dish at all, but in something more specific that she did not consume. And, secondly - and I am surprised no-one else has mentioned this - whenever (rarely) I cook elaborate meals, I simply cannot eat more than a few bites by the time the meal starts. I just feel so full from the cooking, mostly from being in the smell of the food for a long time (but also might be tasting some stuff and eating some scraps etc).

Does it look suspicos? Of course, like any time that there is a lone survivor of, well, anything. But are there lone survivors of stuff that are not murderers? Yes.

77 instances of lone survivors of aviation accidents since 1929...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sole_survivors_of_aviation_accidents_and_incidents#Notable_examples

So being a lone survivor doesn't necessarily prove anything.

 

[jjleroche]

Lucy L had a motive and so does Erin (allegedly)….

IMO

Jmo

Motive is the thing that has got me stumped from the start in this case.
There have been numerous suggestions, mainly related to revenge/financial matters.

It doesn't strike me at all that either of those things fit. IMO a financial motive does not exist.
Certainly there is evidence that she is quite comfortable financially, and as an ex in-law of the victims, would be unlikely to inherit, on the victims' passing. (JMO).

Regarding revenge, IMO it would take an extaordinarily vindictive streak to actually murder people, which (MOO) doesn't jump out at me from what I've seen re EP. Some posters have commented on EP's "suspicious" demeanour (for want of a better word). I don't think her behaviour is necessarily "suspicious" if other factors are considered.

There have been comments from some who allegedly know her, that she is a "loner". If so, the illness and deaths
of the victims could be a terrible loss for her. They had been part of her life for many years, and were her children's grandparents and great aunt and uncle.

IMO, it could be expected that she would be in a terrible state emotionally, trying to support her children in their grief, as well as her own grief.

IMO she doesn't have motive. I can't see her benefitting from their passing.

 

[AmandaSkis]

Of course there’s a financial motive! She might have to split assets in a divorce. We have read so many cases here at Websleuths where the husbands kill the wives because they do not want to give up money. I am not sure why people are failing to see this as a motive just because it is the woman who has the money in this case.

 

[Estelle]

Motive is the thing that has got me stumped from the start in this case.
There have been numerous suggestions, mainly related to revenge/financial matters.

It doesn't strike me at all that either of those things fit. IMO a financial motive does not exist.
Certainly there is evidence that she is quite comfortable financially, and as an ex in-law of the victims, would be unlikely to inherit, on the victims' passing. (JMO).

Regarding revenge, IMO it would take an extaordinarily vindictive streak to actually murder people, which (MOO) doesn't jump out at me from what I've seen re EP. Some posters have commented on EP's "suspicious" demeanour (for want of a better word). I don't think her behaviour is necessarily "suspicious" if other factors are considered.

There have been comments from some who allegedly know her, that she is a "loner". If so, the illness and deaths
of the victims could be a terrible loss for her. They had been part of her life for many years, and were her children's grandparents and great aunt and uncle.

IMO, it could be expected that she would be in a terrible state emotionally, trying to support her children in their grief, as well as her own grief.

IMO she doesn't have motive. I can't see her benefitting from their passing.

I explored the idea of EP having a financial motive early in the case. But when we found out that EP inherited from her mother and is reasonably wealthy now, that doesn't seem to be a strong motive.

However, "Patterson said in the statement that she was worried she would lose custody of their children". I realise that was in the context of her husband accusing her of poisoning his parents so she "dumped the hydrator in the tip and panicked".

Leongatha suspected mushroom poisoning: Erin Patterson says media has portrayed her as an ‘evil witch’

Woman at centre of Victoria mushroom lunch that left three dead says she feels trapped in her home because reporters are camped outside

www.theguardian.com

"Erin’s in-laws and several church elders had reportedly gone to her home on the 29th to discuss new arrangements for Simon to see the former couple’s children."

Inside the mushroom-lunch death mystery that’s gripping Australia

An alleged poisoning is captivating Australia, where authorities suspect Erin Patterson intentionally laced a lunch of mushrooms and beef Wellington for her former in-laws, killing three and sicken…

nypost.com

I have never been aware before that child custody was the reason for the three deceased and the survivor to attend the lunch. I had only read in the media that it was a "mediation".

We have not been given any information as to what the present child custody arrangements are. Maybe EP had argued her case and received full custody of the children previously (perhaps due to SP's illness). Perhaps since he recovered, he has been talking to his parents about gaining shared custody or even full custody of their children which has angered EP. So maybe her in-laws suggested meeting over a lunch and invited the Minister and his wife to mediate the discussions. Perhaps SP had already set up a court date to proceed with this so he didn't think there would be any value gained by his presence so he cancelled the lunch at the last minute.

What is the definition of an unstable parent?

Examples of unfit parents include those who have drug or alcohol problems and foster an unsafe living environment as a result or a parent with a mental illness who is unstable.

Can a mother lose a custody battle in Australia? - Movement Legal

A mother can lose custody of a child if the Court determines that custody would not be in the child's best interest.

movementlegal.com.au

Only about 11% of fathers gain full custody of their children in Australia. Perhaps SP has evidence of EP's mental instability? Maybe the children would rather live with their father?

What age can a child choose to live with a parent in Australia?

The Family Law Act 1975 in Australia doesn't provide a defined age when a child can single-handedly choose which parent they want to reside with.

What Age Can A Child Refuse To See A Parent In Australia?

Australian law does not have a set age for children to refuse parental visits. Discover what courts consider when making custody orders.

justicefamilylawyers.com.au

IMO if child custody was the reason for their mediation, if EP thought that SP's parents were going to argue against her having joint of full custody in court, and she thought there might be a chance of the child custody arrangements changing to her disadvantage by something that the in-laws had evidence of, could that be a strong motive for murder?

ALL IMO