Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[SouthAussie]

She has never claimed she forged them. She purchased mushrooms from an Asian store. So nice of her to thrown an ethnic group under the bus especially one still recovering from Covid and the racism that brought.

But as we know no other groups of people have dropped dead from Death Cap poisoning so her story is full of holes.


MOO

Yes, I know. EP claimed two sources. Fresh button mushrooms from a supermarket, and dried mushrooms from an Asian grocer.

I have never subscribed to the idea that EP dried Death Cap mushrooms at some time in the past. It seems more logical to me that (if she is complicit), these were fairly fresh DC mushrooms due to the long and bountiful foraged mushroom season this year.

 

[LordCyrus]

I have never subscribed to the idea that EP dried Death Cap mushrooms at some time in the past.

Disposing of the dehydrator would however indicate a fear of Death-Cap residue being found on it.

 

[Neet_Mc]

I may have missed something here. Did Erin say that the mushrooms bought from the Asian store were "fresh"? Those stores tend to sell imported dried product.

EP had two types of mushrooms - locally store bought fresh button mushrooms and dried mushrooms from the Asian grocer. Deadly mushroom chef ‘very good at foraging’ for wild fungi

 

[SouthAussie]

Disposing of the dehydrator would however indicate a fear of Death-Cap residue being found on it.

My thought is that the dehydration would have happened closer to the lunch and the prep of the beef wellington. Not some time in the past. (Thinking back to the theories that DC mushrooms were previously dried and kept somewhere else.)

Sorry ... I don't seem to always get my complete thought across.

 

[Neet_Mc]

Mushroom Growers?

@ACriticalThinker The Sewing Needles in Strawberries case was quite bizarre.

"So much information missing" here???
Respectfully, we (General Public) only know what the LE has publicly RELEASED. To date, it's not been much, and we don't know what LE KNOWS.

LE "checking" w commercial growers as possible source?
Trying to imagine.
"Good morning. I'm Detective ___. Have you grown any DC's in the past __ months? Sold any to markets or individuals?"
Would any owner, manager, or employee admit to that?
How would LE try to verify? Perhaps various methods.
Is there probable cause for search warrants to be issued for numerous* growers?

Initial goal (w no arrest made) would be to find a grower who sold DC's to a mkt where she bought them, which presumably would let LE cross EP off the homicide-suspect list.

As investigation progresses perhaps toward an arrest of EP, later goal would be to gather evidence for poss. use at trial. That part of the investigation would basically be collecting evidence to try to prove a negative, but that's another post.

And if EP is charged, she may "recall" having bought them at a roadside stand at a location she does not remember, not from a typical mkt or commercial grower. Or maybe admits to having foraged the mushrooms but did not realize that they were DC's.

I'm confident that LE is undertaking an extensive investigation and has amassed volumes of info to determine all the circumstances of these deaths and illness. And whether criminal charges will be filed. imo.

imo jmo moo icbw
_______________________
* What EP Said about Source of Mushrooms; Difficulty re
Number of Mushroom Growers & Markets to Check?

EP said she was unable to remember the store at which (she said) she bought the mushrooms.
If she could pinpoint the exact store, LE's inquiries would move relatively quickly on that point, tho we/GP would not be made aware of results now.
Imo LE's inquiries of commercial growers may move at a glacial pace simply because of their sheer number. How many stores, where she could have purchased mushrooms in person, are there?
EP said, she purchased from Asian mkt in Melbourne neighborhood.
If unable to identify the "right" mkt there, LE would have to expand search area to question mkts from her home area and btwn there and Melbourne.
And then possibly growers across Australia.
How many growers supply mushrooms to ALL these mkts? IDK. Maybe dozens of mkts?

Yep! As it’s basically been said a few times already - EP’s coverup story isn’t actually very good at all! But, perhaps being so ridiculous and with so many gaping holes in it, her coverup story is actually quietly brilliant. EP introduced room for doubt and error - which, in itself, requires such a substantial amount of investigative work to get a watertight case which will hold up in court to unequivocally point finger at EP that it is seemingly VERY difficult and time consuming! IMHO Ofcourse.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yep! As it’s basically been said a few times already - EP’s coverup story isn’t actually very good at all! But, perhaps being so ridiculous and with so many gaping holes in it, her coverup story is actually quietly brilliant. EP introduced room for doubt and error - which, in itself, requires such a substantial amount of investigative work to get a watertight case which will hold up in court to unequivocally point finger at EP that it is seemingly VERY difficult and time consuming! IMHO Ofcourse.

If the dehydrator has death cap mushroom DNA on it, then the link between EP prepping the mushrooms and serving them is created. However, I imagine she showered it down with bleach before dumping it ... leastways that's what I'd do!

I'm not sure what a dehydrator is or how it works or how long it would take to dry out mushrooms into a dehydrated state or why one would need to dehydrate poisonous mushrooms before serving them up? As I believe I read on here that just a small amount of 'juice' of a DC mushrooms alone is enough to kill.

I wonder if LE searched the grounds of her property to see if there was any sign of DC mushrooms that had been recently disturbed / picked?

I wonder if EP's online searches will show in depth research into plant based poisons and DC mushrooms?

I appreciate EP has been named as a 'person of interest' but what actual detection work have LE conducted thus far? They went to her home and removed a few items I recall reading but is that... it??

 

[TootsieFootsie]

My thinking is that she did pick them herself, mistaking them for ok ones, and when her guests started becoming unwell she panicked and stupidly made up a story of having bought them.

She dug a hole for herself which she couldn't get out of.

I doubt very much that she set out to kill anyone, or even just make them sick.

I'm not convinced yet that I want to join the tarring and feathering.

 

[SouthAussie]

My thinking is that she did pick them herself, mistaking them for ok ones, and when her guests started becoming unwell she panicked and stupidly made up a story of having bought them.

She dug a hole for herself which she couldn't get out of.

I doubt very much that she set out to kill anyone, or even just make them sick.

I'm not convinced yet that I want to join the tarring and feathering.

John Silvester pointed out in The Age article that the court of public opinion has been wrong before. He gave Vanessa Robinson and Lindy Chamberlain as examples.

We can add to the wrongful convictions list Kathleen Folbigg, Ronald Ryan, Andrew Mallard, Ray, Peter and Brian Mickelberg, and John Button (whose convictions were all later quashed).

imo

 

[Neet_Mc]

If the dehydrator has death cap mushroom DNA on it, then the link between EP prepping the mushrooms and serving them is created. However, I imagine she showered it down with bleach before dumping it ... leastways that's what I'd do!

I'm not sure what a dehydrator is or how it works or how long it would take to dry out mushrooms into a dehydrated state or why one would need to dehydrate poisonous mushrooms before serving them up? As I believe I read on here that just a small amount of 'juice' of a DC mushrooms alone is enough to kill.

I wonder if LE searched the grounds of her property to see if there was any sign of DC mushrooms that had been recently disturbed / picked?

I wonder if EP's online searches will show in depth research into plant based poisons and DC mushrooms?

I appreciate EP has been named as a 'person of interest' but what actual detection work have LE conducted thus far? They went to her home and removed a few items I recall reading but is that... it??

Dehydrator dumping, and subsequent change of tack with story surrounding it, seems too good to be true! Even if it was bleached/burned/nuked!
I’m more for EP playing a long game - given there has been a long separation etc, I think this idea may have been festering away for a while. I’m a firm believer of EP having foraged the mushrooms previously, perhaps 12 months or more ago, and dehydrating them then and storing away until an opportune time/circumstance arose (ie planned ‘mediation’ - change to the status quo regarding children/finances etc - may have been trigger). Technically she hasn’t lied in her statement - button mushrooms may have been purchased locally and dried ones from random Asian store. Omission would be DC’s that she had prepared earlier and stored away which she then also included.
Based on this long game, EP could have disposed of all evidence prior which would now be long gone.
In my mind, the dehydrator is either a red herring which will turn up nothing when it is tested OR potentially positive for some other toxin (maybe it was used to dehydrate other items - potentially whatever was used when SP experienced poisoning symptoms - which EP only thought of after the fact and got rid of it just incase). If it is positive for death cap mushrooms then I will be flawed - for someone who is a real crime enthusiast it’s like amateur move 101. IMHO ofcourse

 

[ch_13]

My thinking is that she did pick them herself, mistaking them for ok ones, and when her guests started becoming unwell she panicked and stupidly made up a story of having bought them.

She dug a hole for herself which she couldn't get out of.

I doubt very much that she set out to kill anyone, or even just make them sick.

I'm not convinced yet that I want to join the tarring and feathering.

This is not a bad theory. And I think it's more probable than the mushrooms being bought at a market.

However, I think it has two flaws:

First, I can see her panicking in the moment and lying to the cops in the immediate aftermath of the poisoning. However, months have now passed. She's had plenty of time to reconsider and to tell the truth. Instead she submitted a new statement to the police doubling down on the claim that the mushrooms were store-bought. I'm sure when she spoke to her solicitors, they would have warned her of the danger of continuing with a lie that would likely be exposed by the extensive investigation.

Second, and more detrimentally, it doesn't explain how she (and her children) didn't become seriously ill.

That's not to say the theory can't be true. The flaws are explainable. But I agree that if this theory is true, she's dug herself quite a hole with her statements and actions. Few will believe her if the cops are able to prove that she foraged the mushrooms and she later tries to change her story.

 

[Ellery84]

My thinking is that she did pick them herself, mistaking them for ok ones, and when her guests started becoming unwell she panicked and stupidly made up a story of having bought them.

She dug a hole for herself which she couldn't get out of.

I doubt very much that she set out to kill anyone, or even just make them sick.

I'm not convinced yet that I want to join the tarring and feathering.

I can definitely get on-board with your theory!

 

[Ellery84]

Second, and more detrimentally, it doesn't explain how she (and her children) didn't become seriously ill.

IMO she may have had an eating disorder and simply didn’t eat lunch that day.

Jmo

 

[MsMarple]

My thinking is that she did pick them herself, mistaking them for ok ones, and when her guests started becoming unwell she panicked and stupidly made up a story of having bought them.

She dug a hole for herself which she couldn't get out of.

I doubt very much that she set out to kill anyone, or even just make them sick.

I'm not convinced yet that I want to join the tarring and feathering.

I was right there with you up until the “tarring and feathering” comment.

IMO what some are missing is that those of us who are suspicious of EP are basing our opinions on EP’s own statements and actions. If she has chosen to lie to LE and felt it necessary to obstruct justice by attempting to destroy potential evidence then it’s her fault, not anyone else’s, if those following the case find it difficult to believe her.
MOO

 

[al66pine]

EP. Cover Up Story?

... EP’s coverup story isn’t actually very good at all!
.... so many gaping holes in it, her coverup story is actually quietly brilliant.
....requires such a substantial amount of investigative work to get a watertight case which will hold up in court to unequivocally point finger at EP that it is seemingly VERY difficult and time consuming!

snipped for focus @Neet_Mc Thx for your post.

I had not thought about EP's stmts from your ^ angle and agree her stmts may be brilliant. IDK.

Regardless, hoping that LE's investigation continues at full speed.

______________________________________
BTW.
My earlier post addressed a post asking why doesn't LE check w mushroom farms? <---my paraphrasing.
My post just tried to point out:
- Likely more than just a couple growers to "check" with.
- "Checks" process could possibly run into legal hurdle(s).
Sorry that my post took so soooooo long to say that.

 

[ch_13]

IMO she may have had an eating disorder and simply didn’t eat lunch that day.

Jmo

Except why go through that whole rigamarole of claiming that she put the plates out, everyone chose their own and she got the last one? If she had simply said that she didn't eat the meal it would have been clear why she didn't become ill.

Of course, this also presumes that Ian will attest to her not eating the food. (As well as the others before they passed away.) We'll see, but I tend to think they will have said otherwise.

Unfortunately for her, all her claims just serve to make her look more guilty, not less (IMO).

 

[AussieIan]

If she's guilty, this speaks to a hurried plan executed without much due care and attention. Or, as I have said many times before, one where she no longer cares about the outcome or what consequences will be laid on her. Possible mental health issues or possible substance misuse could explain such clumsiness. Or a level of arrogance that is so mind-blowing she imagined nobody would investigate these deaths and that if they did, nobody would suspect her. If she is that arrogant, then it will be public knowledge already as that level of narcissism is hard to go unnoticed by ones peers.

I wonder if the discussions at the meal took an unexpected turn for the worse and outcomes not in her favour. Maybe she got really angry and shook up. Perhaps she already had the death cap mushrooms dried out and stored for other nefarious reasons (as the police mention something that could align with this aspect) and in a fit of temper after her life seems to be collapsing around her, she made everybody a cup of coffee and added mushroom powder to it.

Otherwise, she's been set up in a manner that is quite hard to fathom.

We know she's an intelligent and thoughtful woman so she's clever enough to make a plan that makes sense. This one makes no sense.

The scenario that makes the most sense to me is that she intended to make them all ill to 'get them off my back' for a bit and this all went terribly pear shaped. Actually setting out to kill them doesn't make much sense but considering what happened previously with Simon I think aiming to make people sick is in line with previous behaviour.

 

[AussieIan]

Mushroom Growers?

@ACriticalThinker The Sewing Needles in Strawberries case was quite bizarre.

"So much information missing" here???
Respectfully, we (General Public) only know what the LE has publicly RELEASED. To date, it's not been much, and we don't know what LE KNOWS.

LE "checking" w commercial growers as possible source?
Trying to imagine.
"Good morning. I'm Detective ___. Have you grown any DC's in the past __ months? Sold any to markets or individuals?"
Would any owner, manager, or employee admit to that?
How would LE try to verify? Perhaps various methods.
Is there probable cause for search warrants to be issued for numerous* growers?

Initial goal (w no arrest made) would be to find a grower who sold DC's to a mkt where she bought them, which presumably would let LE cross EP off the homicide-suspect list.

As investigation progresses perhaps toward an arrest of EP, later goal would be to gather evidence for poss. use at trial. That part of the investigation would basically be collecting evidence to try to prove a negative, but that's another post.

And if EP is charged, she may "recall" having bought them at a roadside stand at a location she does not remember, not from a typical mkt or commercial grower. Or maybe admits to having foraged the mushrooms but did not realize that they were DC's.

I'm confident that LE is undertaking an extensive investigation and has amassed volumes of info to determine all the circumstances of these deaths and illness. And whether criminal charges will be filed. imo.

imo jmo moo icbw
_______________________
* What EP Said about Source of Mushrooms; Difficulty re
Number of Mushroom Growers & Markets to Check?

EP said she was unable to remember the store at which (she said) she bought the mushrooms.
If she could pinpoint the exact store, LE's inquiries would move relatively quickly on that point, tho we/GP would not be made aware of results now.
Imo LE's inquiries of commercial growers may move at a glacial pace simply because of their sheer number. How many stores, where she could have purchased mushrooms in person, are there?
EP said, she purchased from Asian mkt in Melbourne neighborhood.
If unable to identify the "right" mkt there, LE would have to expand search area to question mkts from her home area and btwn there and Melbourne.
And then possibly growers across Australia.
How many growers supply mushrooms to ALL these mkts? IDK. Maybe dozens of mkts?

Friend of mine is a manager at Australia's largest mushroom grower/supplier outside of Adelaide, I mentioned the case to him and he hadn't even heard about it. I don't think they're shaking the tree too hard. From what he said it would be impossible for death caps accidentally enter the supply chain.

 

[LordCyrus]

I think aiming to make people sick is in line with previous behaviour

if the intention was just to make people sick and suffer a bit, then Erin would not have expected the level of scrutiny she's now getting. That would explain the dehydrator not discarded earlier and her muddled explanations.

 

[LordCyrus]

he hadn't even heard about it

Typical mushroom grower- always in the dark.

 

[Ellery84]

if the intention was just to make people sick and suffer a bit, then Erin would not have expected the level of scrutiny she's now getting.

Maybe she likes taking care of sick people and nursing them back to health?

Jmo