Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[Karin1974]

They were never going to be poisoned. Weren’t even present at the house at the time. Suggesting they survived is kinda like they dodged a bullet which isn’t the case - not even in line of fire (to stick with the analogy). Personally, I think her dog is one lucky hound as there’s more likelihood of him/her having eaten or been handed some of the meal.

IMO - You have brought up something very interesting to me, I wonder if anyone was told during the meal not to give any scraps to the dog? MOO

 

[sceawian]

In her statement that was made public she claimed that "she served the meal and allowed the guests to choose their own plates and then took the last plate and ate a serving herself."

Which is kind of a weird way to serve Beef Wellington if you think about it. I think the most common way to serve it would bring it to the table, carve it in front of the guests and hand each person their plate.

However, doing it this way allowed her to suggest that by picking the last plate she couldn't have possibly known if she'd get a poisoned serving.

I wonder if part of it was the "illusion of choice", like you see in magic tricks. Most simply in this instance that could be: the choice of plate with the Beef Wellington ultimately didn't matter because the poison wasn't in that part of the meal.

As some of the wonderful comments have mentioned up thread, poisoners often think of themselves as smarter than those around them, so it wouldn't surprise me if she a) picked a Beef Wellington in the first place because of the duxelles and thinking she was oh so clever with the deliberate red herring, and b) loved the feeling she was tricking the guests with the illusion of choice.

With what we now know, she had likely tried to murder Simon multiple times and failed... she was probably wary of both Simon becoming more suspicious of her cooking, and the fact that this intervention meal was possibly her last chance of getting easy access to his food. So this illusion of choice could be super important to first try and lower his guard enough that he would even eat food she prepared, and secondly to try and delay possible suspicion when he did start to get sick, so he(/they) wouldn't raise concerns until it was too late to communicate again. When he cancelled, it may have caused immense rage that he apparently got spooked (made her feel like she wasn't as sneaky as she believed she was?), and that her final, Hail-Mary plan was thwarted.

We know one of the three that died did manage to have a convo with the paramedic that made them alert the police. Wonder if it was one of his parents, who he may have shared his fears with - even if in the broadest terms? If so, it may be that "paranoia" was the reason one of the victims was able to make the connection and alert the paramedics, even before Simon even got to the hospital, got his bearings and made himself heard. Now it may be deathcap poisoning is so specific that it would've never gone under the radar, but this was a woman was likely emboldened (and frustrated) by the previous attempts that hadn't kicked up too much dust.

IMO.

 

[bearbear]

Erin Patterson's texts leak: Mushroom chef's messages about her inheritance and buying house where she cooked deadly lunch - as estranged husband's reaction to her being charged with murder is revealed​

Erin Patterson's secret text messages leaked as mushroom chef charged

Text messages sent by Erin Patterson to a friend have been leaked after the Leongatha mushroom chef was charged with murder and attempted murder .

www.dailymail.co.uk

interesting article but why has her friend shared these old personal texts? they only show she was happy and sharing her happiness about her dream home?

 

[Salah11]

IMO - I’m not sure about this, how can you control who wants gravy or not & wouldn’t it be odd if you’re offering around a gravy boat that then you yourself don’t even have any of? I think the only way to have done this was with 2 x Beef Wellington’s & I don’t think anyone else at the lunch knew that there were 2 cooked. MOO

If she had eaten with them loads over the years she would know what they liked. Most people would have gravy with a meal like this as well.

Two beef wellingtons would involve a ton of work as even making 1 takes many hours and she had two inquisitive kids underfoot as well.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Her text exchange doesn’t really given me vibes of suffering a mental disorder. Planned and calculated.

Erin Patterson's secret text messages leaked as mushroom chef charged

Text messages sent by Erin Patterson to a friend have been leaked after the Leongatha mushroom chef was charged with murder and attempted murder .

www.dailymail.co.uk

Motives:
1. getting rid of SP makes her center of the family. But he was un-killable so she upped the dose, & when he cancelled she punished him by killing his parents.
2. resented that SP had caring & involved family that were no longer “her” family after divorce (secret texts suggests bad relationship with her own mum)
3. Maybe financial if her inheritance doesn’t cover her real estate investments.
4. Just angry that her life is unchanged despite building dream house in woods
5. maybe her family didn’t want to live out in the woods … with her.

 

[Salah11]

I think it’s safe to say she won’t get Kitchen Duty in jail.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMO - You have brought up something very interesting to me, I wonder if anyone was told during the meal not to give any scraps to the dog? MOO

That's what I keep thinking. She must have had the dog locked out in a separate area of the house or something because there is literally no labrador on earth that doesn't want dinner.

However, I've said it a million times, I personally do not believe the toxic mushrooms were in the BW main meal, I think it's a total red herring. IMO possibly in sauce / gravy and my bets are on in maybe a dessert that EP didn't eat as 'full up' or 'dieting' or a strong cup of coffee before they all left.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Erin Patterson's texts leak: Mushroom chef's messages about her inheritance and buying house where she cooked deadly lunch - as estranged husband's reaction to her being charged with murder is revealed​

Erin Patterson's secret text messages leaked as mushroom chef charged

Text messages sent by Erin Patterson to a friend have been leaked after the Leongatha mushroom chef was charged with murder and attempted murder .

www.dailymail.co.uk

interesting article but why has her friend shared these old personal texts? they only show she was happy and sharing her happiness about her dream home?

I was wondering same. Old friend has royally betrayed her, obv thinks she's guilty, or is desperate for money money money

Only pertinent bit is that there are 'family stories' and that EP 'deserved' her inheritance. You could imagine if she had an abusive or traumatic upbringing and yet nursed her mother to the end, that she would feel very entitled and compensated by a large inheritance. The idea of splitting it with a feckless lazy husband (from her viewpoint) would really hurt. Maybe half of everything her mother worked really really hard for and became a notable academic in her field, going to some lazy bloke and his new girlfriend, wow I'd be spitting feathers.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Motives:
1. getting rid of SP makes her center of the family. But he was un-killable so she upped the dose, & when he cancelled she punished him by killing his parents.
2. resented that SP had caring & involved family that were no longer “her” family after divorce (secret texts suggests bad relationship with her own mum)
3. Maybe financial if her inheritance doesn’t cover her real estate investments.
4. Just angry that her life is unchanged despite building dream house in woods
5. maybe her family didn’t want to live out in the woods … with her.

Or... they all ate something that was only ever intended for him... but what and how !?

It is possible that this poisoning went wrong and she didn't actually intend to kill *everyone*, more so because that makes more sense.

For example: Maybe she poisoned a portion of his favourite dessert but they all liked their portion so much they divided up the remaining one.

 

[SouthAussie]

Or... they all ate something that was only ever intended for him... but what and how !?

It is possible that this poisoning went wrong and she didn't actually intend to kill *everyone*, more so because that makes more sense.

For example: Maybe she poisoned a portion of his favourite dessert but they all liked their portion so much they divided up the remaining one.

I am guessing that EP was given the opportunity to go for manslaughter, during the 5 hour interview.

Eg:
"Is it that you intended to harm SP, and accidently harmed the others instead? That they were not supposed to consume the item containing the toxin?'

It could be that (like Borce Ristevski) EP could plead manslaughter at the last minute, right before trial.

 

[Amalgam]

I haven't seen Simon with hair.

No hair on his head. Underarm or leg hair has the same forensic value, however.

Fingernails are also forensically useful.

 

[Amalgam]

Or... they all ate something that was only ever intended for him... but what and how !?

It is possible that this poisoning went wrong and she didn't actually intend to kill *everyone*, more so because that makes more sense.

For example: Maybe she poisoned a portion of his favourite dessert but they all liked their portion so much they divided up the remaining one.

Hard to imagine that she would serve a single poisoned portion intended only for Simon given he didn’t turn up for the meal.

 

[Reneemaree88]

The Bitter Nature of Homicidal Poisonings

Read common misconceptions of people who poison and the psychological profile of a homicidal poisoner.

www.aetv.com

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, I clarified this just a few posts later when I was queried on it.

The information I gave is considered inaccurate in 2023. I based my initial post upon expert and witness evidence given by two prominent Melbourne based professors of psychiatry (one a forensic psychiatrist) in 2014, who both told the court in evidence that cPTSD is the newer less stigmatising name for BPD.

Clearly the two terms are not considered to be congruent today.

IMO those two disorders are entirely separate conditions and not co-extensive: a person can have either, neither, or both.

 

[MrJ]

EP"s hearing is about to start.

https://x.com/cassiezervos/status/1720218134802821495?s=20

 

[Amalgam]

"Patterson’s lawyer, Ophelia Hollway, left the police station about 7.20pm after five hours of questioning."

Five hours? So they were serious and going at her. I am surprised her attorney let them question her for so long.

With the lawyer there to veto which (if any) questions Erin answers, there is little to lose by allowing the interview to run its course. Doing so will also give Erin’s legal team some insight into the Police’s case, their evidence and avenues of enquiry. Intelligence gathering.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It could be that if EP was given the choice to go for manslaughter she turned it down because in her mind "I did nothing wrong".
She could very likely believe she is innocent. Maybe she is, or maybe she isn't.

Like @SouthAussie says, she may change her plea to guilty later on.

IMO her guilt has yet to be proved.

 

[RickshawFan]

Erin Patterson's texts leak: Mushroom chef's messages about her inheritance and buying house where she cooked deadly lunch - as estranged husband's reaction to her being charged with murder is revealed​

Erin Patterson's secret text messages leaked as mushroom chef charged

Text messages sent by Erin Patterson to a friend have been leaked after the Leongatha mushroom chef was charged with murder and attempted murder .

www.dailymail.co.uk

interesting article but why has her friend shared these old personal texts? they only show she was happy and sharing her happiness about her dream home?

Those texts actually gave me the idea that Erin hurried along her mother's death. It sounded like she'd been drooling over this property before her mother died?

 

[ch_13]

If she is found of sound mind I will be blown away.

RSBM.

Actually, I feel the opposite. Everything she’s done seems very cold and calculating. I’d be very surprised if she was found unable to stand trial due to mental illness.

According to Wikipedia, the standard in Victoria fora defense of criminal insanity is:

the accused was suffering from a mental impairment; and the mental impairment affected the accused so they either did not understand the nature and quality of the conduct, or did not know that it was wrong.

I think she knew full well what she was doing was wrong and would have terrible consequences. That’s why she tried so hard to cover up her crimes.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Hard to imagine that she would serve a single poisoned portion intended only for Simon given he didn’t turn up for the meal.

yep it's quite difficult to logistically see how that'd work

All the same if it's true she badly wanted shot of Simon, somehow the end result has been he's fine and everybody else died bar one who nearly died. A very odd outcome that makes her look guilty as heck of murder and doesn't get rid of Simon. It terms of dynamics or game theory... there's been a serious system fail somewhere.

For this reason, I believe if she can admit to wanting to harm Simon and that the deaths were accidental due to a mix up she could convince a judge and jury as it's almost impossible to believe she wanted to kill four elderly folks. Unless we find out a whole load of new stuff, which is possible.