Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #6

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If info received is correct, the criminal lawyer was present when the police arrived (unverified source)

The police arrived in response to a summons by the husband who claimed his wife was missing (police and media sources)

The husband called the police quite early in the day. Many of us have asked why he called the police so quickly

Would a top criminal lawyer advise his client to call the police so early if there was a chance the police would find incriminating evidence within the residence?

Wouldn't a criminal lawyer cover all bases: computers, phones, physical evidence of a struggle, files and documents, etc. etc.?

So, how long had the criminal lawyer been there before the police were called?

In order to cover all bases, tutor his client in what to do and say, wouldn't the criminal lawyer have needed to be there several hours before the police were called?

And wouldn't the lawyer have spoken with his client for some time before even deciding to set off for the client's home?

This pushes back the time frame even further, doesn't it ?

If we do some rough arithmetic in this hypothetical scenario:

* 7.30 police arrive ?

* 7.15 the children arrive back home ? (unverified source, time unknown)

* 7.00 a.m. the husband phones the police? (pure guesswork. could be totally wrong)

* 5.00 a.m to 7.00 a.m. the lawyer covers bases by deleting info on computers, arranging other material to be picked-up and removed from premises by his junior ? Tutors his nervous-wreck client in what to say to police? Instructs client to shower and change, clean-up bedroom, etc.?

* 4.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m. for lawyer to leave home and get to client's place?

* 3.00 a.m. to 4.00 a.m. discussing situation with client by phone ?

* 1.00 a.m. to 2.30 a.m. for husband to phone around frantically seeking assistance. Is finally provided criminal lawyer's contact details ?

* midnight to 1.00 p.m. for husband to get from wherever to home, quick whip-around the vehicle to clean up. Pacing up and down. Deciding to who to call ?

* wife died before midnight ? Phone ditched. Other items dumped, hidden

* wife departed hairdresser approx. 8.30 p.m.?



I thought Allison finished the Hairdressers at 7pm but not sure where i got that from. I've had it in my mind the whole time so maybe the first person to post about this did mention the time. If it's correct then there would have been a bit more time for the murder and body disposal to take place - which i think would have been needed, especially for the body disposal.

Also, I've been meaning to point his out for a while now each time there is confusion about the girls being at home in the morning, or going to school on particular days. Their school is very close to the house, close walking distance, so even if they have had a sleep over it might not be that unusual for them to be dropped back at home before going to school.
 
Some people have said they think it's understandable that GBC might have called a lawyer early because the husband is always suspected in these types of cases.

But if his story is correct, and he is innocent, then it would go something like like this -

. GBC sees his wife watching the footy show at 10pm and goes to bed

. He wakes up at what time - say, 6am, or 5am at the earliest would be reasonable

. he raises the alarm at 7.30am, supposedly when Allison hasn't returned from what he presumed was her morning walk

. Police arrive at 8am

So at what time does he call the Lawyer in order for the the Lawyer to be able to have discussion and then get showered and dressed and drive to Brisbane from the Gold Coast. It's more like 1hr 30 mins drive from Gold Caost to Brookfield.

Lawyer would have need to be there for at least 30 minutes before GBC called police so there was time to discuss and get organised (unless GBC just called them after speaking on the phone with lawyer).

So best case scenario is that Lawyer arrives at GBC's at 7am, so would have had to have been phoned by GBC at 5am or possibly earlier. So why would GBC call Lawyer at 5am when at that stage, if his story is true, he would only have thought Allison was still on her walk, or in actual fact he might not have even woken to know if she was there or not?

The times just don't work out, and it would seem premature, if you were protecting yourself from suspicion, to be calling the Lawyer at that stage as there wasn't really anything to protect himself from - she was on a walk, or at the worst missing for one hour or so. Why would GBC think he would be under suspicion at that stage?

That said, we don't have official confirmation that the Lawyer was there when police arrived. However the info did come from what i consider a reliable source.
 
Well i see there are only 4 members and 26 guests here right now. Time to go to bed. Thanks for an interesting day and night peeps :)

Allison I hope you are feeling more at peace about not being on the earthly plane any more. You've been farewelled in fitting style and your girls have got to experience the love of a big community who care. Prayers again tonight for these little girls who are going to have such a challenge on their hands in the coming days.
 
SB wrote a condolence message in one website, which was very much supporting Allison and her family/girls, with no mention of the husband. I don't think she is involved at all (other than providing info to the police).
With respect, how do you knowit was the real SB that left a message on that condolence website. I could register on this website with the name SB - wouldn't believe everything on the Internet.
 
I thought Allison finished the Hairdressers at 7pm but not sure where i got that from. I've had it in my mind the whole time so maybe the first person to post about this did mention the time. If it's correct then there would have been a bit more time for the murder and body disposal to take place - which i think would have been needed, especially for the body disposal.

Also, I've been meaning to point his out for a while now each time there is confusion about the girls being at home in the morning, or going to school on particular days. Their school is very close to the house, close walking distance, so even if they have had a sleep over it might not be that unusual for them to be dropped back at home before going to school.


Can't remember which thread contained the post about the visit to the hairdresser's, but the same poster returned shortly afterwards in response to further discussion and from memory he/she confirmed/established the time of departure. Maybe tomorrow someone will remember the time stated

Agree with you about being dropped at home before going to school (after the sleepover) and if BrookieLocal's source is correct, they were home and able to contradict claims they'd spent the night at home

Regarding the murder and body-disposal - only takes a few minutes (even less) to kill someone and depending upon where the murder took place, the disposal may have been brutal and swift. No grave to dig, victim only 55kg or so, 20 mins or less drive each way
 
Some people have said they think it's understandable that GBC might have called a lawyer early because the husband is always suspected in these types of cases.

But if his story is correct, and he is innocent, then it would go something like like this -

. GBC sees his wife watching the footy show at 10pm and goes to bed

. He wakes up at what time - say, 6am, or 5am at the earliest would be reasonable

. he raises the alarm at 7.30am, supposedly when Allison hasn't returned from what he presumed was her morning walk

. Police arrive at 8am

So at what time does he call the Lawyer in order for the the Lawyer to be able to have discussion and then get showered and dressed and drive to Brisbane from the Gold Coast. It's more like 1hr 30 mins drive from Gold Caost to Brookfield.

Lawyer would have need to be there for at least 30 minutes before GBC called police so there was time to discuss and get organised (unless GBC just called them after speaking on the phone with lawyer).

So best case scenario is that Lawyer arrives at GBC's at 7am, so would have had to have been phoned by GBC at 5am or possibly earlier. So why would GBC call Lawyer at 5am when at that stage, if his story is true, he would only have thought Allison was still on her walk, or in actual fact he might not have even woken to know if she was there or not?

The times just don't work out, and it would seem premature, if you were protecting yourself from suspicion, to be calling the Lawyer at that stage as there wasn't really anything to protect himself from - she was on a walk, or at the worst missing for one hour or so. Why would GBC think he would be under suspicion at that stage?

That said, we don't have official confirmation that the Lawyer was there when police arrived. However the info did come from what i consider a reliable source.


Exactly

Just as importantly, why would the lawyer think the husband would be under suspicion at that point?

Can you imagine the lawyer after being awakened by a phone that wouldn't stop ringing pre-dawn. He answers, groggy with sleep only to hear a guy begging for help and claiming his wife's disappeared

The lawyer would have snapped something about 'Make an appointment with my secretary', before disconnecting. So whatever the husband said, it must have been persuasive OR he was dropping names that mattered

Only other explanation I can think of to explain the lawyer's swift and unusual response (i.e., 'home visit') is if he was already engaged by the husband in relation to other matters (remembering he's a criminal lawyer, not garden-variety, reportedly)

All the above hinges upon whether or not the lawyer actually was already present when the police arrived, of course. If he was though, it must have sent alarm-bells ringing for the police
 
Can't remember which thread contained the post about the visit to the hairdresser's, but the same poster returned shortly afterwards in response to further discussion and from memory he/she confirmed/established the time of departure. Maybe tomorrow someone will remember the time stated

Agree with you about being dropped at home before going to school (after the sleepover) and if BrookieLocal's source is correct, they were home and able to contradict claims they'd spent the night at home

Regarding the murder and body-disposal - only takes a few minutes (even less) to kill someone and depending upon where the murder took place, the disposal may have been brutal and swift. No grave to dig, victim only 55kg or so, 20 mins or less drive each way

Just popped back before turning off computer and couldnt resist replying! God this is such a compelling issue!

Re the murder/body disposal time, I'm thinking about say, an argument at home, then the actual murder in the house, then he realises god - she is really dead, then he has to think for a while about what to do, possibly go on the internet about disposing of body, maybe looking at the best way for there to be the least amount of evidence (such as submersion in water). Then he has to wait for a time when he feels the coast is clear, to get her body into the car from the house without anyone seeing.

Same once he drives to location to dump body, and we're not sure if he had it planned in advance where he would go, or just got in car and possibly drove around looking at a few different places. Not sure of all the topography where he would have dumped the body, but this might also have involved sitting in the car for a while getting himself together before actually getting the body out of the car and then carrying/dragging to the final dumping spot. After that there is also getting rid of the mobile phone and possibly other items, this might have happened on the way home or he might have gone straight home and then realised the phone was there so had to go out again to remove it further away from the house and somewhere where it wouldnt be found. I think this would all take much longer than you think and I would say he didnt sleep that night at all.

As for where the accomplice fits in, I have no idea. Perhps just getting someone to help with body disposal, or someone to provide an alibi, or it could be something much more complicated.

I am now going to bed!
 
Maverick.au said the police knew GBC had sent sms messages that evening, and that is why there were possible multiple suspects involved. I just have this gut feeling what Maverick.au said all along has been gospel. A few posters have made me feel like this ( Bayside - do not go AWOL!!)

I too had a feeling Maverick.au & Bayside are in the know, I hang off their every word and have noticed Maverick.au's deleted posts from earlier threads. I was trying to find the post mentioning something was found at/in the back of one of the cars - perhaps that was... a tow ball?

I think the screenshot of the roundabout that someone took on the night of the police road block has taken on a life of it's own! It was not a reinactment, it was a roadblock, and several ppl sat up during delerium hours watching the image refresh. The captured screenshot is just some random vehicle that was passing. No connection to this case, IMO.

Having said that, I'm not disputing the fact that a trailer could have been used, but I doubt it. bringing me back to what was found at the back of one of the cars. Can anyone find that gem of a post from Maverick.au. Was the wording 'at' or 'in' the back of the car?

The ONE thing that struck me the most from all the funeral photos is GBCs massive hands resting on his daughters. And to think that those strong hands could have done this...
 
In his role as principal of a real estate franchise, one would presume he would maintain a clean shaven, professional appearance at all times. As such, his persistent inability to locate a razor, even on the day of his wife's funeral, distinguishes his behaviour as most out of the ordinary.

His beard was tidied up if you have a look at the pics. very sharp edges around his jawline. He found a razor alright... just didn't put it into full use
 
:lurk: from Sweden,
Hi been reading for the last 2 weeks non stop. I grew up in Brisbane and alot of my time as a child was in Brookfield. I still have friends there, So I was so shocked to hear about what had happened to Allison Baden-Clay. I have been on google maps to get to know brookfield again,(left Oz 1981) the roundabout, Allison's house and so on. Read about something strange seen at the roundabout, BC 's car or something. Maybe car and trailer. Googled BC family home in kenmore Hill's and found a trailer.http://g.co/maps/qamyq

Hope thats right, the link I mean. First time doing this. The past 2 weeks have been about Allison and her girls for me. So very very sad and so strange the whole story. Can't make heads or tails of it.:banghead: Allison's mother and father and the 3 little girls have made it through today. God bless them all.

Sorry about my english:blushing:, I know its not that good any more.
Hope something good happens tomorrow:please:
 
:lurk: from Sweden,
Hi been reading for the last 2 weeks non stop. I grew up in Brisbane and alot of my time as a child was in Brookfield. I still have friends there, So I was so shocked to hear about what had happened to Allison Baden-Clay. I have been on google maps to get to know brookfield again,(left Oz 1981) the roundabout, Allison's house and so on. Read about something strange seen at the roundabout, BC 's car or something. Maybe car and trailer. Googled BC family home in kenmore Hill's and found a trailer.http://g.co/maps/qamyq

Hope thats right, the link I mean. First time doing this. The past 2 weeks have been about Allison and her girls for me. So very very sad and so strange the whole story. Can't make heads or tails of it.:banghead: Allison's mother and father and the 3 little girls have made it through today. God bless them all.

Sorry about my english:blushing:, I know its not that good any more.
Hope something good happens tomorrow:please:

:welcome:

:wagon:

So glad to have you aboard! :woohoo:
 
Read about something strange seen at the roundabout, BC 's car or something. Maybe car and trailer. Googled BC family home in kenmore Hill's and found a trailer.http://g.co/maps/qamyq


Holy crapola! so where is that trailer now?

I had a lightbulb moment before. I've always found it odd that they asked for roundabout sightings from 11.30pm to 4am - pretty succinct timing (half past an hour) that must indicate that they have electronic evidence (google searching) to suggest he was at the home at 11.25pm and 4.05am.

IMO, 11.25pm was how to dispose of a body.
and after being unable to sleep... 4.05am how to find a good lawyer
 
very strange times. Do people have alarms in there houses down there? Maybe he put it on then took it of and it shows the times:waitasec:
 
There's something else that's not sitting right, or maybe it's just the late hour. Her clothing ...

The husband provided quite specific detail of what she'd been wearing when allegedly he saw her last. It's been much discussed already in the threads, with many saying their husbands wouldn't have a clue what they were wearing, even five minutes later

No judgement calls here at all, but would ABC have worn trackie-type pants and work-out top to the hairdresser (these were items in which ABC's remains were discovered and which tally with the description provided police by the husband)? Maybe she did. The hairdresser was just down the road, basically. But then we have her best friend reportedly describing ABC as beautiful, always looking beautiful, always striving to look her best. Pride. And discipline. Consideration for others, very often

So maybe ABC went home from the hairdressing appointment and changed into the trackies and top (although as others have already said, it seems more likely she would have returned home, showered and changed into PJs, ready for an early night pre the next day's conference)

Or, did she never make it home after the hairdressing appointment? Was she killed and did the killer change her into trackies and top to substantiate an already planned alibi involving her disappearing whilst walking? If the latter occurred - to substantiate the husband's claims/alibi - the clothes she wore to the hairdresser's would have had to be planted at her home to make it look as if she'd returned home, changed, watched tv and then gone for a walk sometime between 10 p.m. and approx. 7 - 7.30 the following morning

If she was killed in the clothing she'd worn to the hairdresser's (afterwards stripped and changed by the killer/s) there's always the chance forensics were able to lift the killer/s Dna from the clothes in which she was killed (although it's natural the husband's Dna would be present). If he had an accomplice however, their Dna would be much more difficult to explain (and may be one of the reasons police announced the possibility of two killers)

Almost certainly, ABC would have worn several different 'walking/exerise' outfits. They very likely consisted of simple tops and bottoms, tossed in the wash after each use -- not terribly distinctive and with little to differentiate them. Difficult to understand why what she was wearing (nondescript) whilst watching tv (dim light?) made such an impact upon the husband to the point he was able to accurately describe it, considering he must have had a great deal on his mind if reports of business worries are correct

Or, is it the case that ABC was wearing the same clothes she'd worn to the hairdresser's when he last saw her (more dress-up type outfit) and he just happened to precisely guess and describe a particular exercise outfit for detectives (the same outfit in which her body was discovered) based on his claimed assumption that she must have gone for a walk because she was 'missing' when he awakened the following morning - even though almost certainly she had a variety of knock-about and exercising outfits?

Very possibly, a killer would retain an indelible memory of how their victim appeared when last viewed. It's always astonishing when killers are able to describe victims' appearance in minute detail, even decades later

Then there's what might be called another coincidence - that of ABC being killed on the night the children were sleeping elsewhere. How many people knew the children would not be at the home that night? How many people who wanted to kill ABC could have known the children would not be at home? For that matter, how many people wanted to kill ABC at any time at all?

She was killed though. Not by an opportunist rapist. Not by a robber. No apparent cause of death, it's been reported. So it would seem she was not killed by a hit and run. Not killed by a psychopath or maniac on the loose, or at least the police have issued no warnings about same. If, as is said, there are only five motivating factors for murder, that doesn't leave many

Generally, murder/homicide occurs due to one of two basic motivations:

the reaction murder: as an outcome of an event: a quarrel, rage, reaction to an insult, or jealousy, and

the "for gain" type of murder: for monetary gains, revenge, protection of ones self, or even power

Police seek to learn motivation and opportunity

The opportunity was possibly the child-free night ('night off' as ABC is reported to have described it)

Motivation is yet to be established
 
The Scout Motto is: BE PREPARED which means you are always in a state of readiness in mind and body to do your DUTY.
Be Prepared in Mind by having disciplined yourself to be obedient to every order, and also by having thought out beforehand any accident or situation that might occur, so that you know the right thing to do at the right moment, and are willing to do it.
Be Prepared in Body by making yourself strong and active and able to do the right thing at the right moment, and do it.[2]
"To do the right thing at the right moment" can be extreme:
"Where a man has gone so far as to attempt suicide, a Scout should know what to do with him."[3]
"BE PREPARED to die for your country if need be, so that when the moment arrives you may charge home with confidence, not caring whether you are going to be killed or not"[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Motto

Wonder if GBC was just prepard to do his duty. Thought out beforehand any accident or situation that might accur. Right thing to do at the right moment. and willing to do it.

Don't like the sound of this motto:twocents:
 
:lurk: from Sweden,
Hi been reading for the last 2 weeks non stop. I grew up in Brisbane and alot of my time as a child was in Brookfield. I still have friends there, So I was so shocked to hear about what had happened to Allison Baden-Clay. I have been on google maps to get to know brookfield again,(left Oz 1981) the roundabout, Allison's house and so on. Read about something strange seen at the roundabout, BC 's car or something. Maybe car and trailer. Googled BC family home in kenmore Hill's and found a trailer.http://g.co/maps/qamyq

Hope thats right, the link I mean. First time doing this. The past 2 weeks have been about Allison and her girls for me. So very very sad and so strange the whole story. Can't make heads or tails of it.:banghead: Allison's mother and father and the 3 little girls have made it through today. God bless them all.

Sorry about my english:blushing:, I know its not that good any more.
Hope something good happens tomorrow:please:



Genius !!! Welcome :takeabow:


If I'm not mistaken, the blue tarp and board thing behind the trailer looks VERY similar to what sat at the back of one of the GBC vehicles in a photo linked by BrizzychickinUSA, 24 hours or so ago

People asked what was at the back of the vehicle, in fact

For the photo of the vehicle to be in that position, the trailer would have needed to be moved from where it appears in your linked photo. And no telling how old your linked photo is. The trailer may have been moved to another location since then, allowing room now for a car to be parked in the same position

Wonder if investigators are aware a trailer used to be parked in that position at that address? Wonder if they're aware of the existence of a trailer?

Thanks very much for your input and please grace us with many more :)
 
Be prepard in body, by making yourself strong and active and able to do the right thing at the right moment,and do it

Didn't he have a personel trainer?
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...over-family-cars/story-e6freoof-1226338105411

Scroll down until you see the big photo of the vehicle which is reversed in, under the car-port

It's in Thread 5. Page 45. Post # 1115

There are other photos showing the car in the same thread

The car you see in the above photo couldn't be in that position in the car-port if the trailer were still parked at the front on the grass, could it?

If not, means the trailer has been moved. But the car still has a tow-ball for towing, even though reportedly, the cars they have now are relatively new and replace a more prestigious vehicle driven earlier when business was better.

Doesn't the fact that the more recent vehicle (maybe even both the 4 x wheels) has a tow-ball suggest that there is still a wish to use the trailer ? But where is the trailer these days?

Wonder if the police know about the trailer ? Hope so
 
Wow. Who spiked the koolaid this time?

OK so... let's get this straight?

So. Hypothetical. I've just done the most horrible reprehensible thing that will make everyone I know loath me and see me jailed for life. I want to conceal this and hide the evidence.

So I ring around at midnight - hey can I borrow your trailer mate? Just for an hour or two?. Cue lots of driving with a noisy trailer in and out of at least two suburban homes and around a scenic fishing spot in the middle of the night.

OK sorted. Then I work out my cover story "Went to bed at 10pm. Call cops to say wife missing in morning."

But wait, there's more. To make this look natural I call a criminal lawyer and manage to get him out of bed, drive for an hour and be at my house before I call the cops...to just report someone missing. Cos criminal lawyers all publish their home numbers and love nothing more than getting out of bed at bizarre-o-clock in the morning on a weekday. And cos that won't look suss or nothing...

But as it turns out the cops think something's weird cos the lawyer is there. But he's such a hotshot criminal lawyer it never occurs to him that his presence might raise suspicion and destroy the cover story? Right...

Oh and the kids who went for a sleepover, to make things easier on a busy morning, come back home before going to school? Cos yeah that makes things easier.

I thought the boat theories and canoeist conspiracies a few days ago were bad enough, but this is just getting surreal :)
 
Genius !!! Welcome :takeabow:


If I'm not mistaken, the blue tarp and board thing behind the trailer looks VERY similar to what sat at the back of one of the GBC vehicles in a photo linked by BrizzychickinUSA, 24 hours or so ago

People asked what was at the back of the vehicle, in fact

For the photo of the vehicle to be in that position, the trailer would have needed to be moved from where it appears in your linked photo. And no telling how old your linked photo is. The trailer may have been moved to another location since then, allowing room now for a car to be parked in the same position

Wonder if investigators are aware a trailer used to be parked in that position at that address? Wonder if they're aware of the existence of a trailer?

Thanks very much for your input and please grace us with many more :)

a trailer is visible at gramps BC home at 0:38 and 0:43sec in this clip [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f82E7DyVRpA"]Missing Mother - YouTube[/ame]

the screenshot was taken by google street view in December 2009

can anyone identify what the junk at the back of the captiva is.. http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=b...w=181&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:75
 
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