Deceased/Not Found Australia - Cheryl Grimmer, 3, Fairy Meadow Beach, NSW, 12 Jan 1970

[symbah]

Could be way off here, but I think the bubbler is significant. Can't work out where the man 35 - 40 comes into it?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/c655078ce189c0c0d27c247ee7c49fbd
They showered together and she emerged in a towel, but went to get a drink from a nearby bubbler.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/635391/cheryl-grimmer-dead-inquest-finds/
Carole sent her daughter with her sons to the men’s dressing shed to shower.It was while Cheryl was getting a drink at the bubbler outside that witnesses recall seeing a man allegedly abduct her.The man, described as 35 to 40 with a European appearance and wearing orange swimming trunks, was never located.A witness reported spotting a white, rusty Holden sedan drive from the scene.

 

[anna.w]

Could be way off here, but I think the bubbler is significant. Can't work out where the man 35 - 40 comes into it?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/c655078ce189c0c0d27c247ee7c49fbd
They showered together and she emerged in a towel, but went to get a drink from a nearby bubbler.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/635391/cheryl-grimmer-dead-inquest-finds/
Carole sent her daughter with her sons to the men’s dressing shed to shower.It was while Cheryl was getting a drink at the bubbler outside that witnesses recall seeing a man allegedly abduct her.The man, described as 35 to 40 with a European appearance and wearing orange swimming trunks, was never located.A witness reported spotting a white, rusty Holden sedan drive from the scene.

It's hard to know whether that sighting was sinister at all. Given a stinging wind had just blown up and the temperature had plummeted, a man bundling up a little girl and whisking her into a car could easily have been another little girl being legitimately decamped out of dodge.

Absolutely no conspiracy theory here, because I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest any connection between the accused in this matter and Wanda, but just the weird but ultimately meaningless coincidences that occur between cases - a vicious wind and sudden drop in temperature caused Wanda Beach to be emptied on the relevant day, and the girls to park the younger kids in the dunes, and I think Marianne Schmidt's family lived in a south coast hostel on their arrival from Germany.


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[symbah]

https://forgottenillawarra.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-disappearance-of-cheryl-grimmer/

While speaking to people on the beach, police encountered two boys, aged 9 and 11, who recalled seeing Cheryl. After the three Grimmer boys went to fetch their mother, the boys claimed that Cheryl walked out of the pavillion, naked, wanting a drink. She was too short to reach the bubbler so the boys helped her have a drink, before watching the naked girl walk into the sand dunes, carrying her swimsuit and towel. The boys watched her go, concerned that she was unaccompanied, and they are unanimous about what happened next..
As Cheryl walked down the beach, a man ran over to her, wrapped her in a towel and ran with her under his arm into the area between the showers and the surf club building. They followed the man to the clubhouse, but lost sight of him.

BBM

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's hard to know whether that sighting was sinister at all. Given a stinging wind had just blown up and the temperature had plummeted, a man bundling up a little girl and whisking her into a car could easily have been another little girl being legitimately decamped out of dodge.

Absolutely no conspiracy theory here, because I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest any connection between the accused in this matter and Wanda, but just the weird but ultimately meaningless coincidences that occur between cases - a vicious wind and sudden drop in temperature caused Wanda Beach to be emptied on the relevant day, and the girls to park the younger kids in the dunes, and I think Marianne Schmidt's family lived in a south coast hostel on their arrival from Germany.


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:goodpost:

 

[SouthAussie]

https://forgottenillawarra.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-disappearance-of-cheryl-grimmer/

While speaking to people on the beach, police encountered two boys, aged 9 and 11, who recalled seeing Cheryl. After the three Grimmer boys went to fetch their mother, the boys claimed that Cheryl walked out of the pavillion, naked, wanting a drink. She was too short to reach the bubbler so the boys helped her have a drink, before watching the naked girl walk into the sand dunes, carrying her swimsuit and towel. The boys watched her go, concerned that she was unaccompanied, and they are unanimous about what happened next..
As Cheryl walked down the beach, a man ran over to her, wrapped her in a towel and ran with her under his arm into the area between the showers and the surf club building. They followed the man to the clubhouse, but lost sight of him.

BBM

I keep wondering if many of the the boys at the beach that day were from the boys home, on an outing.
And if that is the case, would they squeal on a fellow boys home resident? Or would they tell most of the story correctly, but change a few details ... like the description of the person who ran off with ''Cheryl'' tucked under his arm?

Residents of the boys home may have been somewhat fearful of the accused, or maybe it was a boys home pledge that no-one squealed on anyone else - no matter what.

And now that the boys are all much older, some may have come clean with what they know, or have relayed strong rumours about the alleged perp's identity/actions that were circulating through the boys home at the time.


Police received new information about Cheryl's suspected kidnapper, from witnesses now in their 50s that were 9, 10 and 12 at the time.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-charged-murder-brit-girl-10089723

 

[symbah]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/c655078ce189c0c0d27c247ee7c49fbd

“We were trying to ascertain from inmates or former staff members there in 1971 the daily routine and if they were allowed weekend release,” he said.
“It’s a bit unusual, but anybody who was there in the period from about January to April 1971 — we’re not seeking anyone in particular just information about the daily running (of the centre*)*.”

BBM

BBM and replying to my own post ... sorry.

The man allegedly spoke about the crime 18 months after it happened while a teenager at Mount Penang Training School - a home for troubled teenage boys.
The accused murderer, who is of British heritage, allegedly spoke about the girl's abduction to detectives investigating the case at the time but was not charged.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...case-murder-Cheryl-Grimmer.html#ixzz4cWJMYSge


If the accused spoke about Cheryl's abduction whilst in Mt Penang around Aug/Sept 1971 (18mths after Cheryl went missing), its got me wondering why would detectives want to know if the institution allowed weekend release between Jan to April 1971?

 

[msphilosopher]

I can't help but think what a monster he is... for only 16 at the time. Some rambling questions come to mind...

Was this a crime of opportunity? Was he deeply disturbed and finally decided to act when he saw Cheryl?

Or had he done this before? Did he target Cheryl? How often did the Grimmer family come to this beach? Did he lurk on this family and knew he would be able to grab her when there was a brief moment of separation?

I'm not sure the answers to these questions matter or not. I can't help but wonder. I find it hard to believe that a 16 year old could act in a quick moment of opportunity, leave zero trace of Cheryl and get away with this for so long even after being interrogated by police.

I'm in no way saying he's innocent because I believe he IS guilty... but just so puzzled how this happened and why it took so long..

 

[symbah]

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/4556089/plaque-to-be-installed-in-memory-of-cheryl-grimmer/

Plaque to be installed in memory of Cheryl Grimmer

The family of slain toddler Cheryl Grimmer is working on a plaque to be installed in the little girl’s memory, police working the case say.
“Eventually what we’d like to do is have a small plaque at the beach,” he said.
The plaque will be positioned at Fairy Meadow Beach, near where three-year-old Cheryl disappeared the afternoon of January 12, 1970, never to be seen since.
Forty-seven years on, with police last week charging a 63-year-old Melbourne man with Cheryl’s murder, thoughts of those closest to the case had turned to tribute, said Wollongong Detective Sergeant Damian Loone.

“I think the family will come up with some [words] dedicated to the little girl.

“It would be a nice memory for them.”

 

[SouthAussie]

I can't help but think what a monster he is... for only 16 at the time. Some rambling questions come to mind...

Was this a crime of opportunity? Was he deeply disturbed and finally decided to act when he saw Cheryl?

Or had he done this before? Did he target Cheryl? How often did the Grimmer family come to this beach? Did he lurk on this family and knew he would be able to grab her when there was a brief moment of separation?

I'm not sure the answers to these questions matter or not. I can't help but wonder. I find it hard to believe that a 16 year old could act in a quick moment of opportunity, leave zero trace of Cheryl and get away with this for so long even after being interrogated by police.

I'm in no way saying he's innocent because I believe he IS guilty... but just so puzzled how this happened and why it took so long..

It would be interesting to know why he was in the boys home. Though I am not sure that will be revealed, even in the court case. If it is considered discriminatory to an unbiased trial. And because maybe he was deemed to be a ward of the state, if he was in the boys home?

 

[msphilosopher]

Is he pleading not guilty?

 

[SouthAussie]

Is he pleading not guilty?

I don't believe a plea has been entered yet. If he is under psychiatric care, it could be a while and several court appearances before a plea even happens. They will just keep having mentions to make sure everything is still on track, until everyone is ready - as they do.

 

[msphilosopher]

I don't believe a plea has been entered yet. If he is under psychiatric care, it could be a while and several court appearances before a plea even happens. They will just keep having mentions to make sure everything is still on track, until everyone is ready - as they do.

Thank you!

Psychiatric care BS. I can see the entire court room rolling their eyes on that one.

 

[KG1]

Thank you!

Psychiatric care BS. I can see the entire court room rolling their eyes on that one.

When you think that you have got away with murder for 47 years, it would be somewhat a shock to the system to be arrested and charged. Particularly if he has convinced himself that he didn't do the crime. I think I would need psychiatric help too in that case. He is also likely a suicide risk, as his whole life and facade has disintegrated before his eyes. I feel for his adult children and the rest of his family, as well as the Grimmer family. They are the innocent victims also.

 

[Littlegreenlady]

Thank you!

Psychiatric care BS. I can see the entire court room rolling their eyes on that one.

To a certain extent I agree with you - there seems to be a lot of criminals who when caught suddenly claim mental health and it seems to be a screen to hide between. However, looking at what he allegedly did - the details of Cheryl's murder seem quite nasty, the fact he was young and possibly at a boys home, that maybe he did have mental issues then, and they either never went away or they did and they've come back. And there is a part of me that wants to believe that no one sane would ever do things like this.

Or, it might not be that he needs the care as such, it might be more that he is on suicide watch. An older man caught after 47 years, he may well be considering suicide and so he's in care to prevent that. I'm guessing that Australia has similar issues to the UK with deaths in custody/prison. Psychiatric care in theory would offer more protection in that case.

 

[SouthAussie]

To a certain extent I agree with you - there seems to be a lot of criminals who when caught suddenly claim mental health and it seems to be a screen to hide between. However, looking at what he allegedly did - the details of Cheryl's murder seem quite nasty, the fact he was young and possibly at a boys home, that maybe he did have mental issues then, and they either never went away or they did and they've come back. And there is a part of me that wants to believe that no one sane would ever do things like this.

Or, it might not be that he needs the care as such, it might be more that he is on suicide watch. An older man caught after 47 years, he may well be considering suicide and so he's in care to prevent that. I'm guessing that Australia has similar issues to the UK with deaths in custody/prison. Psychiatric care in theory would offer more protection in that case.

Our prisons certainly don't like child killers. For example, Daniel Morcombe's killer has experienced very violent acts against him since imprisoned. One ex-prisoner has even said that Daniel's killer won't get out of prison alive. And whoever kills him will be treated (in prison) as a national hero.

 

[msphilosopher]

KG1 & Littlegreenlady -

I see both your points. I understand... I see it as the oldest trick in the book regardless of whether he has mental issues. Which he probably does if he could commit such a senseless and violent crime.

I'm a believer in the need to support mental issues and those who endure this life long struggle. But I do not believe in protecting those who commit horrific crimes. The issue with psychiatric care is that it's very difficult to PROVE who is legitimately mentally ill and who are just plain evil for their own selfish gains.

If this guy has a family who loves him dearly, no criminal record, and has a stable job & life than I don't think he truly needs psychiatric care. I don't care if he's traumatized from his facade falling into pieces... Cheryl never got the opportunity to live her life past learning her ABCs. The only one who needed protection was Cheryl... 47 years ago.

I'm in favor of psychiatric care if it truly prevents him from committing suicide in order for justice to be served. Killing himself would be escaping justice.

 

[symbah]

I can't help but think the coming about for urgent psychiatric attention has absolutely nothing to do with what he did to little Cheryl, but rather, everything to do with being caught.

 

[msphilosopher]

Exactly Symbah, exactly.

 

[neesaki]

The case is covered in the Daily Wail today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-mother-s-anguish-didn-t-live-again.html

I'm guessing the family were Ten Pound Poms. Several families I knew went Down Under under the scheme around the same time.

Just saw the breaking news report and now this video of the brothers. How heartbreaking for this family, the parents going to their grave never knowing, and the poor brothers who have carried this burden since they were so young, only young children themselves. Just horrible. :cry: Hopefully the perp will be prosecuted soon though it's a shame he's gotten away with it for so long.

 

[neesaki]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-charged-murder-brit-girl-10089723
You can see the accused's unblurred hair here.

I don't get it, the man's been arrested and charged, so why is he being protected so, blurring his face, not releasing his name. Does anyone know what's up with this? TIA