Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #16

[Spooks-R-Us]

https://www.missingpersons.gov.au/who-missing/wa/spiers-sarah

"She (SS) left the night club at approximately 1:30am. At 2:06am it is known that Sarah called a taxi from the telephone booth at the corner of Stirling Road and Stirling Highway, Claremont. "

BBM
Seems SS did leave CBV at approximately 1:30 am!!!!!

So thats 30 minutes unaccounted for where she possibly was waiting for someone or went to HJ's????
The walk from CBV to the phone booth only takes a few minutes.
Why wasn't there more witnesses?
Maybe there were more witnesses but maybe WAPOL are keeping that part of he story secret???

 

[b4u]

https://www.missingpersons.gov.au/who-missing/wa/spiers-sarah

"She (SS) left the night club at approximately 1:30am. At 2:06am it is known that Sarah called a taxi from the telephone booth at the corner of Stirling Road and Stirling Highway, Claremont. "

BBM
Seems SS did leave CBV at approximately 1:30 am!!!!!

So thats 30 minutes unaccounted for where she possibly was waiting for someone or went to HJ's????
The walk from CBV to the phone booth only takes a few minutes.
Why wasn't there more witnesses?
Maybe there were more witnesses but maybe WAPOL are keeping that part of he story secret???

Did the restaurant part of HJ Claremont close earlier than the Drive Thru part on Friday nights?

I'm also very surprised that there are no reports of witnesses seeing her walk from CBV to Stirling St.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Police are not going to bargain with a pile of dust.
When the prosecution presents the file to defence....
270 phone calls in one night after the arrest. Info still coming in.

Crabstick – I'm offended by your post here for several reasons.

Firstly, because you state that you definitively know that WAPOL won't try and bargain.
How can YOU know what WAPOL will or won't do????

Secondly, because IMO it appears you think SS is NOT worthy of being bargained for.

Thirdly, because you refer to SS as a "pile of dust"!!! Although 21 years of decomposition may have rendered SS's body into a pile of dust, that doesn't mean you can disrespect SS and her family and friends by referring to SS in this way.

SS has a loving and grieving family who still miss her dearly.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/g...ional-plea-to-her-killer-20170131-gu21pf.html



Here are some pictures of SS – so you can recall that we are still talking about a human being – not a pile of dust as you call it!
.

https://www.missingpersons.gov.au/who-missing/wa/spiers-sarah

(pic from web link above - give us back our Sarah)

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Did the restaurant part of HJ Claremont close earlier than the Drive Thru part on Friday nights?

I'm also very surprised that there are no reports of witnesses seeing her walk from CBV to Stirling St.

I can't recall exactly the case back in January 1996, but yes quite often the cafe part of HJ's would close, while the drive through remained open.
However HJ's would still serve people who walked up to the drive-through window on foot (ie. who weren't driving in a car).

 

[Canning Vale]

Crabstick,
Government departments usually have a fortnighty rostered day off, usually taken on a Monday or Friday. Perhaps the abductions tied in with the fortnightly RDOs.

Also, if there's a public holiday on a Monday or Friday and the person's RDO is due, they usually get an extra day off - like the Tuesday or Thursday. Instead of a three day weekend it's a four day weekend.

 

[Mo Joe]

Is it correct that Sharon Mason was witnessed on Mount Street Perth on the day she went missing, and that Julie Cutler's work address was Mount Street Perth? Source Missing and Murdered blogspot.

 

[Spinnaker]

https://www.missingpersons.gov.au/who-missing/wa/spiers-sarah

"She (SS) left the night club at approximately 1:30am. At 2:06am it is known that Sarah called a taxi from the telephone booth at the corner of Stirling Road and Stirling Highway, Claremont. "

BBM
Seems SS did leave CBV at approximately 1:30 am!!!!!

So thats 30 minutes unaccounted for where she possibly was waiting for someone or went to HJ's????
The walk from CBV to the phone booth only takes a few minutes.
Why wasn't there more witnesses?
Maybe there were more witnesses but maybe WAPOL are keeping that part of he story secret???

Good find Spooks - Definitely conflicting times which can change matters completely - the half hour discrepancy in timing is quite a crucial point.

I would question whether the details from the taxi company were correct - I have always wondered about the very short window between making the telephone call and the taxi arriving.

In addition are we 100% certain that this was actually SS who made the call? Could she perhaps have been ambushed or offered a lift nearer to CBV?

 

[Spinnaker]

Is it correct that Sharon Mason was witnessed on Mount Street Perth on the day she went missing, and that Julie Cutler's work address was Mount Street Perth? Source Missing and Murdered blogspot.

JC's workplace, the Parmelia Hilton Hotel Perth is situated in Mill Street, Perth.

 

[DRT]

Good find Spooks - Definitely conflicting times which can change matters completely - the half hour discrepancy in timing is quite a crucial point.

I would question whether the details from the taxi company were correct - I have always wondered about the very short window between making the telephone call and the taxi arriving.

In addition are we 100% certain that this was actually SS who made the call? Could she perhaps have been ambushed or offered a lift nearer to CBV?

Bunnie had confirmed the taxi times and details are correct. I would be fairly convinced it would be SS making the call given it was name Spiers and Mosman Park where she had been earlier in the day.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I'm wondering why punters at CBV who may have been standing on the balcony didn't see SS walk away from CBV??

Did WAPOL interview anyone like this?




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[SherlockSleuth]

Police are not going to bargain with a pile of dust.
When the prosecution presents the file to defence....
270 phone calls in one night after the arrest. Info still coming in.

In order to recover Sarah's body, I think they might. Hard for her family to have closure until that happens.

 

[Innerchild]

Good find Spooks - Definitely conflicting times which can change matters completely - the half hour discrepancy in timing is quite a crucial point.

I would question whether the details from the taxi company were correct - I have always wondered about the very short window between making the telephone call and the taxi arriving.

In addition are we 100% certain that this was actually SS who made the call? Could she perhaps have been ambushed or offered a lift nearer to CBV?

There are many discrepancies in the CI documentary, which said SS left CBV around 2.00 am to call for a taxi. That is only one and others have far more serious implications IMO. If the missing person's report says SS left the nightclub approx 1.30 am I believe this. This leaves around half hour unaccounted for which some sleuthers have given some credible scenarios for. IMO it markedly reduces the possibility she was taken by an opportunist SK. If it was opportunist then there was this half hour to abduct SS and not the 90 seconds or so after SS made the phone call from the box, walked across the road and was seen by three witness there.

Metic posted on thread 15 the following from bart...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...r-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-10/page59

01-07-2017, 10:37 PM#899Originally Posted by Bartholemeus It's not a hypothetical. She had met a guy a guy recently and was catching cab to his unit in Wellington St.

papertrail How do you know this friend from Mosman Park was a guy ?

01-08-2017, 11:14 AM#904 Bartholemeus I've been following this case for a long time. You won't find this info in any media article.

After 1498 posts since Dec2013, this was Bart's last post. Not sure but metic may have noticed the same sleuther posting maps of where the CSK so called victims were last sighted in Claremont that had a remarkable resemblance to the maps on the noticeboard behind cops being interviewed for the doco.

I put some weight onto Bart's comment that SS may have recently met a guy from Mosman park. It may have as recently been the night before and she told her sister about him. Whoever that guy was that was seen with her that morning and took the taxi back to her apartment may have been the accused, but witnesses memories after so long??? Not out of the possibility of the accessed having friends in Mosman Park and staying there on weekends instead of house in Huntingdale, IMO

It's bugged me for a while that there seems to be a mystery female with JC, in cctv of JR and in the taxi the night before with SS (SR says he dropped off in Peppermint Grove), could have been Mosman park, the next door suburb. JMHO

 

[Innerchild]

Grok's timeline seems to say it opened in 1985. Sharon Mason went missing on election day in 1983.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Australia-9-*ARREST&p=13036961#post13036961

In this version of Grok's timeline it says
G Family Mosman Park
La Petite Cabine
(the little cabin)
616 Stirling Hwy-
Moved to Glyde street before 1987
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Media-Timelines-Photos-*NO-DISCUSSION*/page9

I seem to remember La Petite Cabine only a couple of doors away from 322 Stirling Hwy, the Australian Computer Resllers, before it moved to 616 Stirling Hwy. Does anyone have any information on where it was before it moved to 616, near Glyde St?

 

[Innerchild]

No they did not.

They implied it "might" have been someone who had to turn up to work and maybe edgy.

How would the Police have a clue on the work type and work patterns of the abductor/killer, when they did not have any evidence on any potential suspects, as far as we know.

Are you suggesting that the WAPOL had and still have evidence on some individuals, that they were Sarah Spier's abductor or killer?

Police used a variety of criminal investigative analysis or profiling to try to predict behaviour of the CSK. I believe you are talking about a type of of FBI analysis here.

Interesting that after CG disappeared there was a bit of a biffo between the geographic profiling of David Canter and the FBI approach which seemed to be favoured at the time.

file:///F:/CSK/Background%20info/Canter_FBI_theage.com.au%20-%20The%20Age.html

But as the search for Ciara was continuing, Dr David Canter, from the Centre for Investigative Psychology at the University of Liverpool, was in Perth giving a seminar. He is considered by some as a brilliant psychological profiler and is said to have offered his services to Perth police, who were criticised for reportedly rejecting it...

David Canter believes a police devotion to FBI "gurus" is a mistake. "What is happening with some of the followers of the FBI approach is that they have a stronger belief in the masters, in the gurus, than the gurus themselves do," he says...

Claude Minisini rejects suggestions that police in Perth blindly followed any techniques and says Canter's claims are ill-informed. "It highlights (Canter's) lack of knowledge about the professionalism and the meticulousness of the taskforce, and of the checks and balances they have set up internally."

Minisini says the FBI process is based on a clearly defined scientific research protocol involving interviews with serial killers and serial rapists and analysis of the crimes they have committed. "I am still going into the prisons and interviewing a coterie of offenders simply to get insights, to understand, and to listen to their motivations and talk about what precipitated their crimes," he says.

Minisini says after 14 months with the FBI behavioral science unit in Virginia, he believed the bureau has an interesting concept...But Minisini says the process involves much more than Canter's geography theory...

The Victorian connection, through FBIS, with the investigation and the fact that Commissioner Falconer was a senior Victoria Police officer, leads some Perth officers to refer to the WA force as "Vic West." The reliance on the FBI technique was cited in the resignation from the WA force of Senior Sergeant Mark Devenish-Meares, who ran the criminal behavior analysis unit.

Devenish-Meares earned a masters of science degree in investigative psychology from Liverpool University under David Canter. He was involved in the early stages of the serial killer probe but resigned saying he was doing relatively little, despite his skills. He says he had been told by a senior officer he was too narrow-minded and should not be in charge of his area because he was anti-FBI....

WHO KILLED THESE WOMEN? - THE HUNT FOR A SERIAL KILLER - Part Two


Does anyone know if Canter was also in Perth when JR disappeared?

 

[crabstick]

.... brevity snip .... as trying to predict the timing of property sales, and relocation of assets, belongings to a new property, depending of whether you purchase another property straight away and can move into it straight away (it could already have tenants that required notice, or to finish an existing lease), is not easy to predict.

He moved back in parental Gay st according Devil Garden book.
I do ponder if someone might have told him she was pregnant. Telling legal wife 1.0 that you got somone pregnant may attract fercious departure. Lations with 1.0 may have been long over...

Maybe legal wife 1.0 stitched him which sent him over the edge?
Great posts by the way.

 

[crabstick]

In order to recover Sarah's body, I think they might. Hard for her family to have closure until that happens.

After 20 years there will be no body. No body no parole now?

Police have SS out of it to keep thd case simple. Police can later press further charges.
270 phone calls in one night after arrest

 

[Mcfishntackle]

I can't recall exactly the case back in January 1996, but yes quite often the cafe part of HJ's would close, while the drive through remained open.
However HJ's would still serve people who walked up to the drive-through window on foot (ie. who weren't driving in a car).

Hj's restaurant closed at ten pm but drive through was open until 3am.



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[Mcfishntackle]

Hj's restaurant closed at ten pm but drive through was open until 3am.



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Oh and yes people could walk up to the drive through window.



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[crabstick]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Australia-8-ARREST*&p=13022980#post13022980



Now to try find that newspaper article referred to in the above.

A senior officer said on tv evening news "This guy is a fisherman"

At the time I wonder about knife and knots along with unsourced rumours of saltwater. Maybe thats what he used to wash the bodies.

Madora bay was an often visited place by fishermen. His parents had a house there.

I was interested in a source.

 

[PCS]

SS may have told the crowd-controller that she was going home to her sister's because she didn't wish to go into any detail.

Why would she say anything to the Crowd Controller? Before SS disappeared there was no major worry in Claremont. With JR & CG yes.