Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Canning Vale]

Could S.C from Jolimont be in this bushland. Pretty close to her home. I see a lot of rubbish posted in the last 15 or more pages. Weather patterns won't find J.C. Searches will, but not for the lazy ones on here..

PCS,
That might be a place for a D-site. As it's been such a long time, since SC went missing, I'm not sure there would be much left in tact. West Australia is such a huge place - I have a feeling the missing bodies are somewhere underground. Something man-made like a well. Something that the perp. didn't have to dig. I'm not suggesting BRE was responsible for SC or any other missing people - seems there's been a few predators lurking around.

 

[no name]

IMO, lights would've gone off immediately it entered the Ocean due to salt water causing immediate short circuit of car's electrical system, besides whatever the roof and pillar damage might've done to the dome light wiring which could've also shorted the electrics.

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As logical as it appears that water should send the electrics haywire immediately & everything should short circuit, it actually doesnt. Unless the wiring is dodgy or something causes it to, ie damage as suggested, the electrical circuit takes the path of least resistance - ie continues uninterrupted and lights remain on. As Pandit suggested it can take several hours for things to eventually cease without some interruption.
However, considering my understanding of how light moves through water & the way in which light rays cancel each other out - it is my belief that you would only be able to see the headlights shining brightly if the water was still and you viewed it from above. Blue light of the ocean cancels out yellow light of the headlights. I cant find the words to describe my understanding of the angle. Im sure it could be googled. In saying that - I havent, & it may not be 100% accurate. Perhaps I should be quiet .....

 

[petedavo.au]

Wonder if this local man was the fair haired man seen trying to get GR into his brown station wagon with another man. A woman says she saw two men struggling with a boy on the day Gerard disappeared, but did not feel comfortable intervening. She describes two men aged in their mid 30s, one fair-haired, the other dark-haired with a faded maroon or brown station wagon.

http://www.mako.org.au/unsolved-crime-gerard-ross.html

Or with the crime being senselessly violent whether the steel cap booted taxi driver lived in Rockingham? Who knows whether the extra skerrrick of evidence needed was also hindered because his Dad was a cop.

The West Australian, Wednesday, April 16, 2008; Section: News, Page: 9 Charges upgraded
The 42-year-old son of the couple killed in their Yokine home last week will be charged with two counts of wilful murder. A police spokesman said the charges against Vernon Robert Silich would be upgraded from two counts of grievous bodily harm following autopsies on former police inspector Robert George Silich, and his wife Faye, both 65. Mr Silich will next appear in Perth Magistrate’s Court on April 24.

I discovered a possible address. Yet to confirm thou. Can't say it's the suspect's former address obviously. See my post in Gerard Ross thread.

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[petedavo.au]

Does anyone know if there were any incidents in Baldivis, Wellard, Banjup during 1991/1992…

In early 1991 BRE & EC were living in Albert St, Osborne Park, then in April 1991, purchased Fountain Way Huntingdale. Electoral role records indicate BRE lived in Madora Bay from May 1991 to March 1992. Perhaps BRE and EE stayed at the parents Madora Bay property because they couldn’t move into Fountain Way. Perhaps the Fountain Way property had an existing rental agreement – expiring March 1992.

Perhaps each day BRE & EE commuted back and forth to work, EE being dropped at Welshpool train station, commuting the remainder of her journey alone.

Note: The Kwinana Fwy didn’t extend to Mandurah back then, as well as the train line. The journey from Mandurah to Welshpool was probably through
Baldivis, Wellard, Banjup, King Rd to Nicholson Rd. https://www.google.com.au/maps/plac...8687bf6ec741d9!8m2!3d-32.3938461!4d115.771883
JMO

According to the spreadsheet compiled by either Grok, Sutton or Spinnaker…

1990 EC and BRE Relationship During 1990s
1991 BRE & EC Living Albert St Osborne Park
1991 April - 10 Fountain Way Huntingdale Purchase
BRE & ECE Married
1991 May 15 - BRE on Madora Bay EROLL
1991 November 8 - BRE on Madora Bay EROLL
1992 March 20- BRE on Madora Bay EROLL
1993 January 21 - BRE (24) 10 Fountain Way EROLL

I suggest that the electoral role registration at Madona Bay was only for convenience, whilst in temporary digs in Osborne Park, waiting to buy a house, an probably forgotten about till they turned up in Huntingdale to vote and thus found they were incorrectly enrolled and probably changing enrollment on the day. I bet there's a provisional vote recorded for him in either the WAEC or AEC systems.

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[Pandit]

Love his outfit PD.

It would be great if there was a poll function here, we could send everyone over to vote on what they believe is the most likely scenario.

I'm not suggesting that the creature from the black lagoon movie did it, but the damage suggests to me that it was flipped sideways over the groyne. Maybe by a wave, rather than a person. (or creature)
https://www.amazon.com/Creature-Bla...to/dp/B06X9YN85K#immersive-view_1508651275786

https://www.westpix.com.au/results.asp?txtkeys1=groyne

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[Spooks-R-Us]

I'm not suggesting that the creature from the black lagoon movie did it, but the damage suggests to me that it was flipped sideways over the groyne. Maybe by a wave, rather than a person. (or creature)
https://www.amazon.com/Creature-Bla...to/dp/B06X9YN85K#immersive-view_1508651275786

https://www.westpix.com.au/results.asp?txtkeys1=groyne

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Davo - [emoji12] by your suggestion the person/s responsible for drowning the Fiat in Cottesloe beach was also an expert oceanographer that could reliably predict the occurrence of a freak wave hitting the groyne. Thus driving the Fiat to end of the groyne at the exact moment this powerful freak wave would crash over the top side of the groyne. Washing the poor BLF into the drink with enough power and force to ensure the car didn't lodge on the rocks on the way down. While escaping the same fate him/herself!
Seems plausible!

Using this (crazy) logic, the perpetrator managed to find a victim in JC, and commit the crime with confidence knowing he/she could reliably dispose of the car off the end of the groyne with this freak wave!!!!!

Amusing scenario.
[emoji12][emoji12][emoji317][emoji317]


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Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
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[petedavo.au]

As logical as it appears that water should send the electrics haywire immediately & everything should short circuit, it actually doesnt. Unless the wiring is dodgy or something causes it to, ie damage as suggested, the electrical circuit takes the path of least resistance - ie continues uninterrupted and lights remain on. As Pandit suggested it can take several hours for things to eventually cease without some interruption.
However, considering my understanding of how light moves through water & the way in which light rays cancel each other out - it is my belief that you would only be able to see the headlights shining brightly if the water was still and you viewed it from above. Blue light of the ocean cancels out yellow light of the headlights. I cant find the words to describe my understanding of the angle. Im sure it could be googled. In saying that - I havent, & it may not be 100% accurate. Perhaps I should be quiet .....

No. That's a fair comment. I'd imagine that WA Police would've examined the vehicle enough to know if there's any evidence of electrical arcing and thus if the system shorted or not. They haven't said anything, so either is possible. Being that cars of that vintage had sealed beam headlights, it'd be fair to say the lights themselves wouldn't short. I'd be looking for evidence of arcing at the connector to the starter motor solenoid and at the connector to the alternator, being that those points are closest to earth points of the vehicle and neither would be fused in those days, and both on 30amp wires straight from the battery. Nowadays the starter solenoid is usually controlled by a relay due to the propensity of the old way of wiring them causing problems with battery discharging and short circuits.
Another spot to look for arcing is within the voltage regulator which was a separate unit on old cars. If it wasn't waterproof due to age, it would short out the electrical system quite easily as well. (As I found out in an old Datsun)

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[petedavo.au]

Davo - [emoji12] by your suggestion the person/s responsible for drowning the Fiat in Cottesloe beach was also an expert oceanographer that could reliably predict the occurrence of a freak wave hitting the groyne. Thus driving the Fiat to end of the groyne at the exact moment this powerful freak wave would crash over the top side of the groyne. Washing the poor BLF into the drink with enough power and force to ensure the car didn't lodge on the rocks on the way down. While escaping the same fate him/herself!
Seems plausible!

Using this (crazy) logic, the perpetrator managed to find a victim in JC, and commit the crime with confidence knowing he/she could reliably dispose of the car off the end of the groyne with this freak wave!!!!!

Amusing scenario.
[emoji12][emoji12][emoji317][emoji317]


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Wave would've been a lucky break if a perp took her, or a nasty accident, if there's no criminal act involved. As yet there is no proof that the incident on Stirling Hwy, the break in, nor the clothes in the kebab shop have any connection to her disappearance.
Finding out if the car could enter the Ocean by accident or not, could be decisive in determining if her disappearance was a crime or not.

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[Pandit]

The car could possibly enter the sea by accident if she was driving it like a bat out of hell and went over the groyne. But there's no evidence of the car being on the groyne or going over the groyne and this assumes JC was in it.

The evidence suggests that she wasn't in the car.

Wave would've been a lucky break if a perp took her, or a nasty accident, if there's no criminal act involved. As yet there is no proof that the incident on Stirling Hwy, the break in, nor the clothes in the kebab shop have any connection to her disappearance.
Finding out if the car could enter the Ocean by accident or not, could be decisive in determining if her disappearance was a crime or not.

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[Canning Vale]

Love his outfit PD.

It would be great if there was a poll function here, we could send everyone over to vote on what they believe is the most likely scenario.

Pandit,
The Thanks button could be used for a poll type function. Perhaps we could each enter a scenario. Then spend time examining the facts. Perhaps new posters could be encouraged to do so. Does anyone want to go first?

 

[Annalise]

Hi everyone - if Julie Cutler was abducted outside the Parmelia by someone hiding in her car or someone following her car - could she have been taken to the Groyne in Cottesloe and the perps car was there so they could change cars? Leaving the fiat to be pushed into the sea (presumably by pranksters). Then Julie being taken somewhere else murdered and disposed of. Could the perp have been the road rage guy from Stirling Highway. Was his car blue? If so he could be connected to Kerry Turners abduction. A blue car drove quickly up to her and stopped behind her. She got in. Don't think she knew the driver. The fast driving car in my opinion connects the two cases. MOO

 

[petedavo.au]

The car could possibly enter the sea by accident if she was driving it like a bat out of hell and went over the groyne. But there's no evidence of the car being on the groyne or going over the groyne and this assumes JC was in it.

The evidence suggests that she wasn't in the car.

No evidence of anyone being in the car. Article said there was no one in the vehicle. Police said there is no evidence that it was driven into the ocean or that Julie was in it when it went in. It was either pushed or washed into the ocean. There is no evidence that anyone intended to put it in the ocean, so it could've simply been dumped where a wave, or larrakins got to it later. There's no evidence of when Julie and the Car became separated. Julie could've just as easily been standing at the front leaning against her car looking out to sea, having a smoke enjoying the Ocean, when both were swept away by a freak wave for all we know so far.

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[Annalise]

No evidence of anyone being in the car. Article said there was no one in the vehicle. Police said there is no evidence that it was driven into the ocean or that Julie was in it when it went in. It was either pushed or washed into the ocean. There is no evidence that anyone intended to put it in the ocean, so it could've simply been dumped where a wave, or larrakins got to it later. There's no evidence of when Julie and the Car became separated. Julie could've just as easily been standing at the front leaning against her car looking out to sea, having a smoke enjoying the Ocean, when both were swept away by a freak wave for all we know so far.

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Hi Petedavo - or Julie's car was left at the Groyne to give the impression she had committed suicide. MOO

 

[Pandit]

Quite risky behaviour for a likely nervous young woman in the dead of night, one who's had contact with the police over a house break in and an incident on the road. Driving to the end of the groyne, she's trapped if anybody enters the groyne after her.

But like you, my mind is open as to whether the two previous incidents are actually connected to her disappearance.

No evidence of anyone being in the car. Article said there was no one in the vehicle. Police said there is no evidence that it was driven into the ocean or that Julie was in it when it went in. It was either pushed or washed into the ocean. There is no evidence that anyone intended to put it in the ocean, so it could've simply been dumped where a wave, or larrakins got to it later. There's no evidence of when Julie and the Car became separated. Julie could've just as easily been standing at the front leaning against her car looking out to sea, having a smoke enjoying the Ocean, when both were swept away by a freak wave for all we know so far.

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[Canning Vale]

No evidence of anyone being in the car. Article said there was no one in the vehicle. Police said there is no evidence that it was driven into the ocean or that Julie was in it when it went in. It was either pushed or washed into the ocean. There is no evidence that anyone intended to put it in the ocean, so it could've simply been dumped where a wave, or larrakins got to it later. There's no evidence of when Julie and the Car became separated. Julie could've just as easily been standing at the front leaning against her car looking out to sea, having a smoke enjoying the Ocean, when both were swept away by a freak wave for all we know so far.

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I've read that JC didn't smoke, but there were cigarettes found in her ashtray. It would be interesting to know whose they were.

 

[meticulously]

Thanks for your persistence Meticulously.
I agree with you, and obviously hind-casting weather data from an PhD accredited oceanographer is supremely accurate and TRUMPS basic weather reports (forecasts and hind-casts) from the local newspaper. I can see how newspaper weather reports are 'dumbed down' so they can hopefully be understood by the general public.

PLUS,
Hind-casting obviously measures the actual weather that occurred in reality, because hind-casting reports on the weather.
Forecasting only predicts the future weather and is a guess based on scientific knowledge and weather formulas, so forecasting only predicts the weather.

Yes thats right Spooks,
I talked to the Physical Oceanographer during the last week to double check that the information is accurate.
They confirmed that it is very accurate and its the best information available .
Trustworthy and used in many climate studies ;

http://www.ecmwf.int/en/research/climate-reanalysis/era-interim

Rottnest is White , Blue is Naturaliste &
Albany Green .
Cottesloe is not "properly resolved" so that means not working .

My educated guesstimate is 3 metres for cottesloe at the same time JC disappeared after midnight , on the 19th going into the early hours of the monday 20th .
It did not continue at that size as all evidence shows, it became smaller and the weather was relatively fine for the next few days.
Weds 22nd it was retrieved out of the sea .
In the early hours of the weds 22nd powerful "long period swell" that may have had the power to either damage the car, humans or anything associated with the dumping / mystery etcetc.
This swell was probably inconsistent and only a metre or less in height .
The speed though, almost twice that of your average wave .
These swells can do damage, as a study on rockfishermen deaths showed .
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13680872

An example of a long period swell in june 2017 .
20 second period circled, and northwest direction see red arrow.
https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/cottesloe-tide-and-wave.asp

 

[no name]

No. That's a fair comment. I'd imagine that WA Police would've examined the vehicle enough to know if there's any evidence of electrical arcing and thus if the system shorted or not. They haven't said anything, so either is possible. Being that cars of that vintage had sealed beam headlights, it'd be fair to say the lights themselves wouldn't short. I'd be looking for evidence of arcing at the connector to the starter motor solenoid and at the connector to the alternator, being that those points are closest to earth points of the vehicle and neither would be fused in those days, and both on 30amp wires straight from the battery. Nowadays the starter solenoid is usually controlled by a relay due to the propensity of the old way of wiring them causing problems with battery discharging and short circuits.
Another spot to look for arcing is within the voltage regulator which was a separate unit on old cars. If it wasn't waterproof due to age, it would short out the electrical system quite easily as well. (As I found out in an old Datsun)

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Absolutely. Its my personal opinion that ON/ON meant their position only & I think everything on BLF would have been inoperable before it hit the bottom. I may be one of the few that has bi-passed the weather debate entirely too as it has always been my belief that the ocean was rough & the car didnt stand a chance, no doubt going into the ocean the same night. Perhaps one day the photo I know exists & Ive seen, that was taken from below the SLSC before the car was retrieved will surface.
In saying that, IC has said that their beliefs about the lights & the time the car entered the water was due to knowledge obtained from people that saw the car in the water and from the results of the battery having been tested which of course can not be proved to us, but may well be correct also. We can only go by MSM obviously, yet we know it often yields info that is untrue.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

JC: maybe the back seat of the Fiat was dislodged by the perp because they unclipped the back seat when he/she hid in the back seat floor well when Fiat was parked at Parmelia.

Then when disposing of car in ocean, back seat was already lose. And since seat probably had foam padding, then naturally it floated its way out of the car while the car sank or was washed out to sea.


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Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
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[Annalise]

I don't think the CSK was the perp in Kerry Turner and Julie Cutler's cases. The MO was very different to CSK's. MOO

 

[Annalise]

JC: maybe the back seat of the Fiat was dislodged by the perp because they unclipped the back seat when he/she hid in the back seat floor well when Fiat was parked at Parmelia.

Then when disposing of car in ocean, back seat was already lose. And since seat probably had foam padding, then naturally it floated its way out of the car while the car sank or was washed out to sea.


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Hi Spooks - yes unclipping the back seat when hiding in the car makes sense. That would be a reason for the seat to float out of car in the ocean. MOO