Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

[OneSmallStepAtATime]

thanks for reminding us of this fact OSS.

This one point has always been very interesting, and as you probably know, has been discussed at length here on WS.

Very true Spooks...

It has always bugged me and probably will keep bugging me until the case goes to trial and hopefully the answer to curious comment will come to light



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[Akai]

One thing that has always been curious to me is that when SS originally went missing - according to the detective interviewd on the Australian criminal investigation documentry - it was stated that major crime had taken over within 48 hrs as it was evident it was not just another missing persons case.... (link to eposode below - 11:45 minute mark)

This has always made me wonder why this was because I am not aware of it being standard practice for this to happen so early on in a missing persons case and wonder what evidence was discovered at that time.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...CuAQtwIIKTAD&usg=AOvVaw1qzzBkS7VadeWM9IG22V1n

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Interesting point.

I think it was just the circumstances. She was young, had strong family ties, nothing questionable in her history (e.g. debts, drugs, work issue) that we know of, was completely happy in her life. Add to that the fact that she called a taxi (and taxi companies usually ask where you're going - so may have said the suburb of where she lived indicating she was going home) AND was not there when the taxi turned up. There's enough there to quickly suspect foul play. A deliberate disappearance would more likely have either had her not calling a taxi or calling the taxi and then she is dropped somewhere and then vanishes.

JMO


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[Akai]

I wonder if part of that 1.5 million pages of 'evidence' were possibly files, info, pics, plans, photos, contact lists, or other questionable material possibly retrieved from the accused's home computers??

I'm guessing such evidence needs to be sorted and classified, and presented in a format suitable for court proceedings.

This one job itself would require a team of officers.

I have assumed that the 1.5 million pages also incorporates a lot of information from the investigation that may not be directly related to BRE.


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[Spooks-R-Us]

Could the famous saying that the alleged CSK crimes were NOT random, and that the abduction location (Claremont) NOT the only factor connecting SS, JR and CG be simply a reference to the alleged CSK being an "Organised Type" of SK, as opposed to the Disorganised Type ?????

 

[OneSmallStepAtATime]

Interesting point.

I think it was just the circumstances. She was young, had strong family ties, nothing questionable in her history (e.g. debts, drugs, work issue) that we know of, was completely happy in her life. Add to that the fact that she called a taxi (and taxi companies usually ask where you're going - so may have said the suburb of where she lived indicating she was going home) AND was not there when the taxi turned up. There's enough there to quickly suspect foul play. A deliberate disappearance would more likely have either had her not calling a taxi or calling the taxi and then she is dropped somewhere and then vanishes.

JMO


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I sort of look at it being a care free period in Perth where the only thing you had to worry about on a night out was ducking and weaving away from a few sleazy boys in bars that by the next morning were the cause of many giggles when reliving the fun of the night before.

To me it would not be unusual for a cab to be called and then for plans to change in the blink of an eye and for someone not being there for pick up... (i must admit I am guilty of this on more than one occassion)

But given her background I can understand why the hairs on the back of necks may have stood up and major case called in.

Cant help but think that there is more too it though - IMO.

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[Spooks-R-Us]

Could the famous saying that the alleged CSK crimes were NOT random, and that the abduction location (Claremont) NOT the only factor connecting SS, JR and CG be simply a reference to the alleged CSK being an "Organised Type" of SK, as opposed to the Disorganised Type ?????

As discussed many times before, the alleged CSK seems to have a type. For example: females, under 170cm, with shoulder length or longer hair, and blonde or light brown/blonde streaked hair.

Maybe the non-randomness refers to his actual CHOICES of alleged victims. Meaning his alleged decisions to picking a victim was deliberate and NOT random.

 

[Akai]

I sort of look at it being a care free period in Perth where the only thing you had to worry about on a night out was ducking and weaving away from a few sleazy boys in bars that by the next morning were the cause of many giggles when reliving the fun of the night before.

To me it would not be unusual for a cab to be called and then for plans to change in the blink of an eye and for someone not being there for pick up... (i must admit I am guilty of this on more than one occassion)

But given her background I can understand why the hairs on the back of necks may have stood up and major case called in.

Cant help but think that there is more too it though - IMO.

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Meant to include some of this in original post, but got distracted and forgot. Works as a reply, anyway, though.

From memory of the CIA episode that was done on this ten years ago, Sarah's disappearance wasn't reported until a couple of days after it happened (Monday morning IIRC) when her sister realised she hadn't been around for the whole weekend and she called her work and she wasn't there.

That's already a long timeframe to begin with, especially factoring age, character, level of responsibility, no friends having seen her.

It could also be the area it happened. It has been said that one of the reasons this case has attracted so many resources is because it was Claremont, and I tend to agree with that. Not saying police wouldn't have done a thorough job if it had happened elsewhere, but I think this has always been regarded a bit differently.

Beyond that, though, any evidence they had to prompt such a significant investigation so soon may not have any significance now. There was the report regarding the taxi and the black-haired good looking guy from the morning beforehand.

JMO


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[DRT]

I have assumed that the 1.5 million pages also incorporates a lot of information from the investigation that may not be directly related to BRE.


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I was thinking here, the only winners are the lawyers. 1.5 million pages to read $$$$. One of the things that amazed me about this site when I joined this site is that newspaper articles could be read by multiple people and several of them would pick up single lines out of the article each that could be important or imply something in the case.

They have 1.5 million pages, I am guessing we have seen less than 100.

 

[janwa]

One thing that has always been curious to me is that when SS originally went missing - according to the detective interviewd on the Australian criminal investigation documentry - it was stated that major crime had taken over within 48 hrs as it was evident it was not just another missing persons case.... (link to eposode below - 11:45 minute mark)
This has always made me wonder why this was because I am not aware of it being standard practice for this to happen so early on in a missing persons case and wonder what evidence was discovered at that time.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...CuAQtwIIKTAD&usg=AOvVaw1qzzBkS7VadeWM9IG22V1n
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Hello this list taken from Missing and Murdered, and victims of 'lesser' attacks would have been known to the police and the press at the time SS went missing. At that time she was the latest in a long list that then kept growing longer.

1994 Jan 1 woman driving home from Club Bay View fights off man who dragged her from her car and tried to rape her near the Claremont subway 1994 May 23 Pamela Lawrence is murdered at her shop in Mosman Park. Andrew Mark Mallard is wrongfully convicted of her murder in 1995. He is ultimately cleared some 12 years later 1994 Oct A 31-year-old woman breaks her ankle when she leaps from a speeding taxi on Princess Road after the driver and another man try to attack her. 1995 Feb 12 Teenager abducted in Rowe Park, tied with electrical flex and raped at Karrakatta Cemetery. 1996 Jan 27 Sarah Spiers 18, spends the evening with friends at Club Bay View. At 2.06am, she calls taxi from a Claremont phone box. When the taxi arrives she has gone and is not seen again. 1996 Feb Police confirm they have received reports of bogus taxis in Perth.

 

[Akai]

I was thinking here, the only winners are the lawyers. 1.5 million pages to read $$$$. One of the things that amazed me about this site when I joined this site is that newspaper articles could be read by multiple people and several of them would pick up single lines out of the article each that could be important or imply something in the case.

They have 1.5 million pages, I am guessing we have seen less than 100.

That is such a good observation. I had not thought about it like that.

If every page has to be read by multiple people and then the multiple people have to make their interpretations, which have to be debated.........I get a headache just thinking about it.

It is simplified a little by the fact that both sides now have clear objectives that they want to interpret the information with respect to. Different to the police who were searching for clues and wondering what each thing meant. But still enormous.

And yes, we've seen nothing.

Can you imagine those 1.5million pages being available to websleuths?! [emoji23] The debates would NEVER end. It's probably break the site.


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[DRT]

Meant to include some of this in original post, but got distracted and forgot. Works as a reply, anyway, though.

From memory of the CIA episode that was done on this ten years ago, Sarah's disappearance wasn't reported until a couple of days after it happened (Monday morning IIRC) when her sister realised she hadn't been around for the whole weekend and she called her work and she wasn't there.

That's already a long timeframe to begin with, especially factoring age, character, level of responsibility, no friends having seen her.

It could also be the area it happened. It has been said that one of the reasons this case has attracted so many resources is because it was Claremont, and I tend to agree with that. Not saying police wouldn't have done a thorough job if it had happened elsewhere, but I think this has always been regarded a bit differently.

Beyond that, though, any evidence they had to prompt such a significant investigation so soon may not have any significance now. There was the report regarding the taxi and the black-haired good looking guy from the morning beforehand.

JMO


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"Sarah’s failure to arrive home the next day would spark a series of frantic phone calls between Amanda and Sarah’s friends.

All had assumed that she got home safely and the sense of panic grew steadily over the weekend.

When Sarah failed to show up at her secretarial job on Monday morning, her father Don took his concerns to police."



https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-...-from-a-claremont-street-corner-ng-b88337785z

They were worried about Sarah on the weekend but reported it once she wasn't at work.

 

[CyberRH]

And JR's sister looks like she has really aged as well. My heart sunk when i saw her photo.

The pictures of Don Speirs & Dennis Glennon are heart-wrenching.....they look like 'broken soul's. [emoji22][emoji22][emoji22]

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[Akai]

"Sarah’s failure to arrive home the next day would spark a series of frantic phone calls between Amanda and Sarah’s friends.

All had assumed that she got home safely and the sense of panic grew steadily over the weekend.

When Sarah failed to show up at her secretarial job on Monday morning, her father Don took his concerns to police."



https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-...-from-a-claremont-street-corner-ng-b88337785z

They were worried about Sarah on the weekend but reported it once she wasn't at work.

Thanks very much. Slightly different to what is characterized in the CIA documentary (which missed out some detail), but ultimately the same thing. By the time they reported it, everyone was already convinced something had gone seriously wrong.


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[CyberRH]

I don't miss the ramblings of xyz coordinate theories or snuff movie theories or mathematical computations of a damaged Fiat or the dreams of a well meaning space cadet. Like you all I want to know the "facts" that will be presented in this case and spare the " oh ! we had already discussed that on websluths" sanctimonious comments made by some. JMO

Hi Twist totally agree with you. The co-ordinate theories were driving me insane! And don't even get me started with the "I wonder what star sign they all were? Maybe this was a zodiac copy killer".

Just my opinion.

 

[CyberRH]

I just can't fathom the Excel spreadsheet that has 1.5 million pages.

What could possibly consume 1.5 million pages? i.e. would they copy and paste every single lead they ever got (BRE related or not) or is it specific to BRE?

Help!

 

[Twist]

I just can't fathom the Excel spreadsheet that has 1.5 million pages.

What could possibly consume 1.5 million pages? i.e. would they copy and paste every single lead they ever got (BRE related or not) or is it specific to BRE?

Help!

It won't be an spread sheet, there is software around that will file & store the data in electronic form and have extensive search functions. Companies specialise in this type of filing storing and retrieving specifically for court proceedings.

 

[Canning Vale]

b4u,

I'm unable to reply with quote.

A pat on the back is well overdue. Most of those mentioned were/are regular users. Crabsticks provided quite a few good posts. My guess is he reacted badly when he became overwhelmed by sarcasm.

 

[Canning Vale]

Twist,

Are you referring to Records Management? When the information is scanned and saved electronically.

 

[Akai]

I just can't fathom the Excel spreadsheet that has 1.5 million pages.

What could possibly consume 1.5 million pages? i.e. would they copy and paste every single lead they ever got (BRE related or not) or is it specific to BRE?

Help!

I believe it will be everything that may be used at the trial. So I don't think it will be every single lead they ever got (with this case we'd probably be looking at 10 million pages), but it will probably be a lot more than just what is specific to BRE.


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[Credulious]

It won't be an spread sheet, there is software around that will file & store the data in electronic form and have extensive search functions. Companies specialise in this type of filing storing and retrieving specifically for court proceedings.

It states in the article that 1.5 million records are in an Exel spreadsheet