GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[they'll get you]

Due to the world wide attention of Jill's murder, I imagine the judge may be very mindful of an appropriate sentence.

 

[Lysol]

I disagree. I think that is a presumption, and a guess. I certainly wouldn't think this way. He MAY have had a knife, which he may have produced later. But I don't know how many times it has to be said that he did NOT have a gun in any of that video - OR a knife. It is fringing artifact. You can clearly see the black shadow around and along the edges of every light-coloured object (eg his hand).

I really don't think he had ANY weapon with which he would threaten Jill - not at that time anyway. If he did - then WHY did Jill walk in the same direction he did? There were other people about on Sydney Rd - if he was waving knife or a gun at her, surely she would have simply run the other way and screamed. She looked WAY too calm on the CCTV footage.

Nope - I think he didn't need any threatening weapon. He somehow convinced her that she was safe - either by leaving and turning the corner, or by convincing her that somebody MORE dangerous was following her. So much so that she FOLLOWED him. There's no way I could see her doing that if he was threatening her with a gun. And to threaten somebody with a knife, you have to be up in their face almost - not several paces away and leaving her standing still....

EDIT: one other point springs to mind - and the legal types on here can correct me if I'm wrong on this... but if he DID have a gun or a knife, then wouldn't the charge involve ARMED abduction or however it is worded? Or going armed in public, or some such? If the police really thought he had a weapon?

The other point is that the "gun" shadow is actually too small to be a real gun. I don't know how many of you have actually handled a real small-arm (I have - many times) but something of the size that is suggested in those still frames would be a fake cigarette lighter pistol or a toy at the most. If it were real. Which I'm sure it wasn't...

I don't think he had anything in his hands in the video. However, he would most certainly have had a concealed knife on his person. That is what I meant.

 

[they'll get you]

If Jill had mentioned she worked for the ABC maybe he thought she was a reporter and would persue him. Just wondering why.

 

[they'll get you]

re shoes - one of the Irish tabloids calls them 'bar to car shoes'

Those shoes were not designed for an 800 metre walk.

 

[Maigret]

Those shoes were not designed for an 800 metre walk.

I agree but when I was young I used to wear very high heels to and from work and had about an 800 meter walk to the bus stop and then from the bus stop to work - thought nothing of it

 

[GutFeeling!]

I disagree. I think that is a presumption, and a guess. I certainly wouldn't think this way. He MAY have had a knife, which he may have produced later. But I don't know how many times it has to be said that he did NOT have a gun in any of that video - OR a knife. It is fringing artifact. You can clearly see the black shadow around and along the edges of every light-coloured object (eg his hand).

I really don't think he had ANY weapon with which he would threaten Jill - not at that time anyway. If he did - then WHY did Jill walk in the same direction he did? There were other people about on Sydney Rd - if he was waving knife or a gun at her, surely she would have simply run the other way and screamed. She looked WAY too calm on the CCTV footage.

BBM: You're right DrWatson.

 

[fruity]

Those shoes were not designed for an 800 metre walk.

It's off topic sorry, but can I say ... I've walked home (not alone) in heels like that and they're really not meant for long distances. There are 'wearable' heels, then there are fashion heels. I suck at wearing fashion heels but I can run in 3 inch 'wearable' heels.

 

[possumheart]

It's off topic sorry, but can I say ... I've walked home (not alone) in heels like that and they're really not meant for long distances. There are 'wearable' heels, then there are fashion heels. I suck at wearing fashion heels but I can run in 3 inch 'wearable' heels.

I hate those really high heels for 1000 reasons. I have always thought it admirable that an Aussie invented little foldable ballet flats to fit in your handbag and slip on for walking home or whatever. I wonder if they are still available?

 

[Maigret]

I hate those really high heels for 1000 reasons. I have always thought it admirable that an Aussie invented little foldable ballet flats to fit in your handbag and slip on for walking home or whatever. I wonder if they are still available?

Pretty sure they still are and then you can use your heels as a weapon if someone tries to grab you

 

[possumheart]

After Party Shoes by ******* fit in a pouch, which is a convenient size. You can easily fit our shoes in your handbag, office draw & glove box.

 

[marlywings]

The next member who starts discussing the accused's history, even if it's "general" questions, will be put on time-out.

You have ALL had multiple warnings to date.

 

[alioop]

Pretty sure they still are and then you can use your heels as a weapon if someone tries to grab you

In today's news, high heel shoe used as a weapon in bar fight.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/15055095/woman-hit-with-high-heel-during-bar-fight/

 

[fruity]

Pretty sure they still are and then you can use your heels as a weapon if someone tries to grab you

Along the lines of Alioop's link, I remember a TV show or movie years and years ago where a woman used a stiletto heel to someone's temple. It took them a while to work out how the victim was killed.

Having said that, I doubt that Jill's accused killer would have given her the chance to fight him. News reports say that he grabbed her and took her to a side street, so I assume he overpowered her quickly and without a chance to defend herself.

 

[Maigret]

Along the lines of Alioop's link, I remember a TV show or movie years and years ago where a woman used a stiletto heel to someone's temple. It took them a while to work out how the victim was killed.

Having said that, I doubt that Jill's accused killer would have given her the chance to fight him. News reports say that he grabbed her and took her to a side street, so I assume he overpowered her quickly and without a chance to defend herself.

Maybe he had the old tried and true chloroform gag - its supposed to be quick - not sure how easy it is to come by though

 

[macsleuth]

Maybe he had the old tried and true chloroform gag - its supposed to be quick - not sure how easy it is to come by though

I thought this might be the case and actually alluded to this theory earlier in the thread. It coincides with another incident in the same area earlier this year where an as yet unidentified assailant threw what was described as a clear liquid in the face of a female in what was described an attempted sexual assault.

For mine it makes the most sense and explains the apparent lack of a struggle. It would render JM unconscious at which point he would have complete control of the situation.

I believe Chloroform is used commonly in the manufacturing industry so someone with the right job could probably access this quite easily and without attracting to much suspicion.

 

[Maigret]

I thought this might be the case and actually alluded to this theory earlier in the thread. It coincides with another incident in the same area earlier this year where an as yet unidentified assailant threw what was described as a clear liquid in the face of a female in what was described an attempted sexual assault.

For mine it makes the most sense and explains the apparent lack of a struggle. It would render JM unconscious at which point he would have complete control of the situation.

I believe Chloroform is used commonly in the manufacturing industry so someone with the right job could probably access this quite easily and without attracting to much suspicion.

Oh thanks for that I probably had read it and had it in the back of my subconscious
Manufacturing? What sort of stuff?

 

[oz_sleuth]

I thought this might be the case and actually alluded to this theory earlier in the thread. It coincides with another incident in the same area earlier this year where an as yet unidentified assailant threw what was described as a clear liquid in the face of a female in what was described an attempted sexual assault.

For mine it makes the most sense and explains the apparent lack of a struggle. It would render JM unconscious at which point he would have complete control of the situation.

I believe Chloroform is used commonly in the manufacturing industry so someone with the right job could probably access this quite easily and without attracting to much suspicion.

hmmm, i wonder if pastry chefs have access to chloroform........

 

[macsleuth]

Oh thanks for that I probably had read it and had it in the back of my subconscious
Manufacturing? What sort of stuff?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform#section_3

Here's a link to Wikipedia. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste the link?.... Hopefully OK!

I understand it has a number of uses but checkout the link subtitle "Uses".

I'm not sure that it would be used in food preperation though .....

 

[macsleuth]

Trying to find the article which stated that a clear liquid was thrown in the face of would be victim but cannot locate it for the life of me.....was definitely there a week ago? :-(

 

[they'll get you]

I agree but when I was young I used to wear very high heels to and from work and had about an 800 meter walk to the bus stop and then from the bus stop to work - thought nothing of it

Vanity thy name is woman