GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[SheepMan]

They also have footage from the freeway...

September 30, 2012
THE closed-circuit security footage from a Sydney Road shop was only part of the technological arsenal police used to investigate the murder of Jill Meagher.

Sometime after the moment Ms Meagher was captured on CCTV speaking to her alleged killer, police will allege he removed the SIM card from her phone, sources told The Sunday Age yesterday.

But not before investigators used information provided by Vodafone and the operators of the CityLink tollway to narrow the search for their main suspect. The Sunday Age understands cameras on the Tullamarine Freeway may have captured footage that helped lead to Adrian Bayley's arrest.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...-technology-20120929-26skq.html#ixzz29WclrrYd

I wonder why he used the citylink road, you would think straight up to Bell Street and onto the "non-toll" section of the Tullamarine and then caldar, would have been the obvious route to Gisbourne South (both in terms of not being tracked by camera's/tolls and in terms of quickness at that time of night/morning)?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I wonder why he used the citylink road, you would think straight up to Bell Street and onto the "non-toll" section of the Tullamarine and then caldar, would have been the obvious route to Gisbourne South (both in terms of not being tracked by camera's/tolls and in terms of quickness at that time of night/morning)?

Maybe just panicked, if the original intent was rape but not murder.

 

[fruity]

Snipped by me:

(b) the police will allege that the attack on Jill was very swift and brutal - eg a king hit (my opinion only) - and that the reason nobody heard anything was that she was either unconscious or already dead when she was dragged down the lane and then raped. So mercifully it would appear that she knew nothing of what was happening.

:moo:

I have believed from the time he was arrested, that the accused grabbed and then king hit Jill. I think he was waiting around the corner of Hope Street with the intention to rape her - he'd been following her down Sydney road, overtaken her and doubled back to talk to her, then tried to lure her away. I think she resisted and he walked off and around the corner. I believe she screamed as he grabbed her (the yell that the woman from Alaysa purportedly heard) but he rendered her unconscious nearly immediately after this.

When the media released that the police will allege the accused left the scene and returned later, this fit with what I had already begun to think. I don't believe that he meant to kill her, but that he king hit her so severely that he needed to go home to get a shovel to bury her. This would also match with the neighbours saying they heard cars arriving around 2am (I personally believe it was the sound of the accused arriving, quickly getting his shovel, then leaving again).

If this is the case, I am thankful that she may not have been aware of what was happening.

This is all speculation and my opinion only, of course.

 

[LeoBear]

For anyone thats read the book "Someone elses daughter",I am the Paul McGovern mentioned in the book that put together the law and order petition...I came to know the Lynch family very well and we are still close...although Gary has passed on now...Anitas sister is married to my brothers mate and Im still close mates with one of the arresting detectives on the case...trust me...the book is definitive

Thank you, Paul. Many of us were rocked by Anita's horrific death. There are indeed parallels as well as echoes of the Cobby case in the most recent tragedy. I personally still have nightmares about Anita without the embellishments. This naturally drew me to the current case. We can never find true justice for these beautiful, lovely women. But we can try to be safe. And ensure those we love are safe and loved. For fate turns on a pin hair.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us!
Leo Bear

 

[Makara]

Drogheda mayor Paul Bell thanks Melbourne in heartfelt letter to our city's mayor Robert Doyle

John Masanauskas
From: Herald Sun
October 18, 2012 12:00AM

THE mayor of Jill Meagher's home town in Ireland has written a heartfelt letter to the people of Melbourne thanking them for their solidarity in the face of her tragic death.
Mayor of Drogheda Paul Bell said if there was a glimmer of hope in the tragedy, it was the way Ms Meagher's life and death had brought together the two cities.

"She has managed to unite the citizens of Drogheda and ... Melbourne many thousands of miles away, together in a determination that her death by such a hideous act has no place in a democratic civilised society," he said.

BBM.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...yor-robert-doyle/story-e6frf7kx-1226498134291

 

[chicagofa13]

For anyone thats read the book "Someone elses daughter",I am the Paul McGovern mentioned in the book that put together the law and order petition...I came to know the Lynch family very well and we are still close...although Gary has passed on now...Anitas sister is married to my brothers mate and Im still close mates with one of the arresting detectives on the case...trust me...the book is definitive

O/T:

Completely random, I just saw Anita's case on Investigation Discovery here in the US. Show called 'Blood, Lies and Alibis'. It was on my dvr from the other night and I watched this morning. Very sad case. I was impressed w/ the judge and the 'never release' as I know generally the convicted in Australia serve less time than those in the US.

 

[oz_sleuth]

Will be interesting to hear what their "ace" actually was...

..

I was about to suggest it may have been DNA evidence that they presented to as their 'ace', that forced him to confess.

Then I realized that Im an idiot since they didnt even know where her body was at that stage.

So perhaps it was unreleased CCTV footage from further down Sydney Rd showing him attacking her and/or dragging her down Hope St?

 

[fruity]

Snipped by me:

:moo:

I have believed from the time he was arrested, that the accused grabbed and then king hit Jill. I think he was waiting around the corner of Hope Street with the intention to rape her - he'd been following her down Sydney road, overtaken her and doubled back to talk to her, then tried to lure her away. I think she resisted and he walked off and around the corner. I believe she screamed as he grabbed her (the yell that the woman from Alaysa purportedly heard) but he rendered her unconscious nearly immediately after this.

When the media released that the police will allege the accused left the scene and returned later, this fit with what I had already begun to think. I don't believe that he meant to kill her, but that he king hit her so severely that he needed to go home to get a shovel to bury her. This would also match with the neighbours saying they heard cars arriving around 2am (I personally believe it was the sound of the accused arriving, quickly getting his shovel, then leaving again).

If this is the case, I am thankful that she may not have been aware of what was happening.

This is all speculation and my opinion only, of course.

I'm quoting myself here, because I just remembered another media story that doesn't fit with the above. I read recently that the police will allege that he raped and strangled Jill. Perhaps he didn't start the night with the intention to murder, but got carried away. Ugh, how disgusting. It makes me feel sick to type those words.

 

[DrWatson]

I'm quoting myself here, because I just remembered another media story that doesn't fit with the above. I read recently that the police will allege that he raped and strangled Jill. Perhaps he didn't start the night with the intention to murder, but got carried away. Ugh, how disgusting. It makes me feel sick to type those words.

Actually, it DOES fit - but with a slight alteration. I think that he probably king-hit her as he grabbed her to silence her and stop her from struggling. Then a short time later, she may have started to wake up and struggle, and that would be when he strangled her.

Just my opinion and pure speculation, of course - the only evidence for that is the lack of noise in the first place (therefore the king-hit or similar) and the fact that police allege he strangled her. But that would seem to me to be one possible scenario.

 

[Paul mcGovern]

When Anita was taken I was working in an office in Sydney and every morning I would hear people talking about how 'someone should do something"...so I started a law and order petition asking for a return to capital punishment and "never to be released" stamped on files...I new the capital punishment was never going to happen but it got me on TV,radio and print media as I knew it would...in the course of the petition I telephoned her family to make sure they were OK with it and from there formed a close bond with them that lasts to the present...I attended much of the committal hearings with the family and spent many hours with them at their home over the years...Anitas sister married my brothers mate...Im still in touch with Garry heskett from the homocide squad...I am equally pissed off over Jills death and intend to see some changes made...watch this space...I ended up with around 50,000 signatures

 

[Paul mcGovern]

Me with gary Lynch in 1986

 

[bearbear]

I was about to suggest it may have been DNA evidence that they presented to as their 'ace', that forced him to confess.

Then I realized that Im an idiot since they didnt even know where her body was at that stage.

So perhaps it was unreleased CCTV footage from further down Sydney Rd showing him attacking her and/or dragging her down Hope St?

if you use google street view to follow jills walk around the corner to hope street to the first laneway where her bag was found, you can see cameras on the buildings opposite the laneway, if these were working at the time they would have given police their ace card.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

if you use google street view to follow jills walk around the corner to hope street to the first laneway where her bag was found, you can see cameras on the buildings opposite the laneway, if these were working at the time they would have given police their ace card.

That would tend to make him change his mind about co-operating.

 

[they'll get you]

I'm quoting myself here, because I just remembered another media story that doesn't fit with the above. I read recently that the police will allege that he raped and strangled Jill. Perhaps he didn't start the night with the intention to murder, but got carried away. Ugh, how disgusting. It makes me feel sick to type those words.

'Perhaps he didn't start the night with the intention to murder, but got carried away'.

So true! BUT could this be a defence to manslaughter rather than murder?? 'I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN TO KILL HER'Remembering Jill was tipsy & maybe screamed so if he did king hit her possibly she fell backwards heavily and hit her head with no balance in the shoes. Poor sweetheart didn't have a chance against his strength. I feel it was a king hit but she might have got in a scratch or two and the police got some DNA, maybe those CCTV cameras opposite Hope Street got footage of the assult BUT would they pick up anything in the darkness near the alley.

I'm loving our boyz in blue! They are amazing. I'm so proud of them.

 

[Paul mcGovern]

I understand the direction any defense team may wish to take with respect to an alleged "king hit"...however my understanding is that the Police brief will list strangulation as the cause of death...we then have the issue of whether the sexual assault was carried out post mortem.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

'Perhaps he didn't start the night with the intention to murder, but got carried away'.

So true! BUT could this be a defence to manslaughter rather than murder?? 'I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN TO KILL HER'Remembering Jill was tipsy & maybe screamed so if he did king hit her possibly she fell backwards heavily and hit her head with no balance in the shoes. Poor sweetheart didn't have a chance against his strength. I feel it was a king hit but she might have got in a scratch or two and the police got some DNA, maybe those CCTV cameras opposite Hope Street got footage of the assult BUT would they pick up anything in the darkness near the alley.

I'm loving our boyz in blue! They are amazing. I'm so proud of them.

No it wouldn't. In Victoria there is an offence of murder when death occurs during the commission of an offence carrying penalty of 10 years or more. Rape carries a maximum penalty of 25 yrs. So wouldn't matter what intent was as to death or if she had died, say, from falling and hitting her head and not strangulation.

This is the relevant section-

Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 3A

3A. Unintentional killing in the course or furtherance of a crime of violence

(1) A person who unintentionally causes the death of another person by an act
of violence done in the course or furtherance of a crime the necessary
elements of which include violence for which a person upon first conviction
may, under or by virtue of any enactment, be sentenced to level 1 imprisonment (life) or to imprisonment for a term of 10 years or more shall be liable to be convicted of murder as though he had killed that person intentionally.

Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 38
Rape

38. Rape

(1) A person must not commit rape.

Penalty: Level 2 imprisonment (25 years maximum).
(section goes on to describe what constitutes offence, for the sake of delicacy no need to post it here)


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/

 

[oz_sleuth]

if you use google street view to follow jills walk around the corner to hope street to the first laneway where her bag was found, you can see cameras on the buildings opposite the laneway, if these were working at the time they would have given police their ace card.

I just checked Street View and I see no camera on the buildings opposite, but maybe i am blind

Can you take a screenshot?

 

[fruity]

Actually, it DOES fit - but with a slight alteration. I think that he probably king-hit her as he grabbed her to silence her and stop her from struggling. Then a short time later, she may have started to wake up and struggle, and that would be when he strangled her.

Just my opinion and pure speculation, of course - the only evidence for that is the lack of noise in the first place (therefore the king-hit or similar) and the fact that police allege he strangled her. But that would seem to me to be one possible scenario.

Good thinking. It's a reasonable scenario!!

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I understand the direction any defense team may wish to take with respect to an alleged "king hit"...however my understanding is that the Police brief will list strangulation as the cause of death...we then have the issue of whether the sexual assault was carried out post mortem.

Seems ante-mortem - otherwise charge would be the following:-

Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 34B
Offence to interfere with corpse of a human being

34B. Offence to interfere with corpse of a human being

(1) A person must not intentionally-

(a) interfere sexually or commit an indecent act with a corpse of a human
being; or

(b) unlawfully remove body parts from a corpse of a human being-

whether that corpse is in a public cemetery within the meaning of the
Cemeteries and Crematoria Act 2003 or at any other place. Penalty: Level 6 (5
years maximum).
2) Subsection (1) does not apply to-

(a) any person who is engaged in the preparation of a corpse of a human
being for the purposes of interment or cremation within the meaning of
the Cemeteries and Crematoria Act 2003; or

(b) any other lawful interference with a corpse of a human being,
including a lawful interference for the purposes of a medical,
scientific or hygienic procedure.

 

[bearbear]

I just checked Street View and I see no camera on the buildings opposite, but maybe i am blind

Can you take a screenshot?

im not sure how to take a screen shot sorry, but on google street view, as you come around hope st corner there is a pale brick building almost opposite the alley where jills bag was found, the alaysa van is parked opposite, this building looks to have a camera above the grey roller door, if you zoom in on it you can see it better, and then further along there is a pale green building, 2 hope street, on the corner of little breese and hope street with what looks like a camera pointing towards sydney road direction, its up high under the roof at the corner of the building and there is an electricity box or something with wires above it on the roof. they both look like cameras to me, but may just be security lights? also notice there is a pharmacy on the corner, they usually have cctv too.