Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

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Property Report for 15 Merinda Court, Southport QLD 4215

I also just found this link, which states the sale as having occurred in April 1997. This contradicts the previous link which has the sale as 23 May 1997. Unless one put the date as the start of the sale process and the other one, when the process was completed. But this would indicate, if the house didn't even go up for sale until April, that recieving an offer happened within the month. It also shows that when it was bought 3 years earlier , in January 1994 it went for $180 k.
So it seems Marion sold it at a 15k loss.

Unfortunately the records beyond 1997 show who it was sold through, but before that agency is shown as unknown. Might be able to find that info out somewhere though...
 
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Property Report for 15 Merinda Court, Southport QLD 4215

I also just found this link, which states the sale as having occurred in April 1997. This contradicts the previous link which has the sale as 23 May 1997. Unless one put the date as the start of the sale process and the other one, when the process was completed. But this would indicate, if the house didn't even go up for sale until April, that recieving an offer happened within the month. It also shows that when it was bought previously, in January 1994, it went for $180k. So it would seem that when Marion sold it, over 3 years later she did so, making a $15 k loss.

Unfortunately the records beyond 1997 show who it was sold through, but before that agency is shown as unknown. Might be able to find that info out somewhere though...
 
Property Report for 15 Merinda Court, Southport QLD 4215

I also just found this link, which states the sale as having occurred in April 1997. This contradicts the previous link which has the sale as 23 May 1997. Unless one put the date as the start of the sale process and the other one, when the process was completed. But this would indicate, if the house didn't even go up for sale until April, that recieving an offer happened within the month. It also shows that when it was bought 3 years earlier , in January 1994 it went for $180 k.
So it seems Marion sold it at a 15k loss.

Unfortunately the records beyond 1997 show who it was sold through, but before that agency is shown as unknown. Might be able to find that info out somewhere though...
They’ve talked about this on the podcast haven’t they? Sally went and spoke with the agent who handled the sale (or was it the lawyer). I don’t think she had anything of value to share.
 
They’ve talked about this on the podcast haven’t they? Sally went and spoke with the agent who handled the sale (or was it the lawyer). I don’t think she had anything of value to share.

Thanks. I couldn't remember anything specifically from the podcasts. I suppose it was a long time ago and to them it would just be- another sale, just within a days work.
 
The Florabella name has been mentioned many times before- and reference to Marion's time teaching in the Blue Mountains. It seems she married Ray Barter in Lapstone- is this around about the time she lived and taught in the Blue Mountain region?

It has been mentioned that Florabella Street in Warimoo, is home to the local primary school. It also straddles the Florabella Pass that runs between Warimoo and Blaxland. The pass seems to run very near also to Blaxland Public School. I know Marion probably didn't teach at either of these schools, but if she lived in the region she was likely familiar with at least the name of the Florabella Pass. She may have taken walks in the area and the name stuck with her.

In addition to this someone mentioned the record of a Florabella Stocks- Florabella Hazel Stocks to be precise- is recorded in censuses and directories from 1958 right up to 1980.

We don't seem to have heard too much of Marion's childhood. But she was born in the Marrickvale area of Sydney- this is an 11 minute drive from Belmore- where in 1958 to 1968 Florabella Stocks lived with a Gordon Robert Stocks- and an address is on the main Canterbury Street where there now appears to be a rundown vacant build for lease. Marion was 13 or thereabouts in 1958. Could Florabella have been someone she knew from her childhood or looked up to?

Florabella then is registered as living in Peakhurst also with Gordon Robert Stocks throughout the 1970s and in 1980. Not far from Marrickville either- but Marion would have left the area by then. All I can find on either Gordon or Florabella is these registrations in censuses and directories. No marriage records on either, death or births. The only thing is their last listed address from 1980 comes up as having last been sold in 1995- possibly a death date for one or the other?

Gordon Stocks comes up as a photo engraver and then later a printer, Florabella Stock's occupation is simply "home duties" - similar to Florabella Remakel (but that would not be uncommon for a woman who was an adult by 1958!) ..could mean nothing, but looked for as much as I could as it seems the only Florabella of much note coming up in Australia..I can't find anything on google. In the absence of marriage records, this Gordon and Florabella could have been brother and sister rather than married and have reamined unmarried.

Could Florabella have been a stay at home unamrried woman, with no kids who took a shine to Marion and Marion to her? I am maybe going too far with this..but although it may have seemed irrelevant, Marion's history- as far back as her childhood could be very important. Was she close to her own mother, what was her home life like? People wonder why her sisters are not as involved...they will be the ones who knew about anything important or noteworthy from her childhood. Sally may not know much depending on what Marion was comfortable to tell her.

Was Marion on good terms with Jack (her dad)? He obviously desperately wanted to find her too, but what was their relationship like? It is senstive questions, but the way she was in her adult life could be explained in part by how she found her childhood, how she was with her own kids and whether or not she had it in her to just dissappear on them voluntarily..
 
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The house went up for sale in April? That is a very small timeframe between then and the 23rd of May when the sale went through and monies recieved. I agree with Garyb in that it takes a very long time for the wheels of legal administration to turn in regards to the sale of a house. It is not uncommon for homes to be on sale for months before ven recieving an offer. It must have been a sellers' market in 1997, because it all seems extremely fast and even then if it went up at the beginning of April it is still only about 6 or so weeks for the whole process to be complete.

I wonder, does Sally know who the house was sold to? Could there be any chance, she already knew someone who would be interested even before she put it on the market but as soon as it was , gave them a first refusal so to speak? I wonder what the house value was at that time, if she made a big loss and simply just wanted it sold whatever the cost, especially if she had no other specific house in mind at that time. If she planned to disappear maybe all she needded was the money - end of. The more the better, but would take the very first offer just to get everything done and dusted. What estate agent handled the sale to process it so fast? I can't help but feel such a small time frame is indicative of a lot of pre planning over a long period of time. When were the problems at TSS first thought to have arisen? She may have felt generally for a long time, it was just a very toxic environment to work in, maybe there had been a lot of internal conflict with TSS and politics that had been going on for a very long time.

Sorry if my post was confusing. I dont know when the house was first listed. I said at least as early as April, because if the house sold in May there would have most likely been a 30 day settlement period (although in QLD at the time 14day unconditional contracts were popular).
A lot has been made on the podcast of the 15k loss Marion made on the house but I dont think 15k is really a loss as such. Marion hadnt owned the property long (2-3yrs) and doesnt appear to have done any major improvements. There was a lot of development/investment happening in greater Brisbane/coast which make prices variable.

The point I was making was that Marion resigned from TSS 5 days before she flew out of Australia but she knew she was going to leave months before. Looks like she was planning it for awhile and tried to keep everyone in the dark as much as she could.
 
Just noticed on facebook that a new episode will be out before christmas. Also big developments in 2020, still dribbling out the information.
The NCAT decision is due out by monday as well. I think the results of that will be a good indication if Marion did just start a new life or there was foul play. If the dont allow much additional information it would mean they are still protecting her privacy. All or most of the files would indicate no privacy issues involved.
Do you think I'm right.
 
Just noticed on facebook that a new episode will be out before christmas. Also big developments in 2020, still dribbling out the information.
The NCAT decision is due out by monday as well. I think the results of that will be a good indication if Marion did just start a new life or there was foul play. If the dont allow much additional information it would mean they are still protecting her privacy. All or most of the files would indicate no privacy issues involved.
Do you think I'm right.

agree Gary, if they release nothing than I would think they think she is still alive, or they may release nothing but declare a homicide enquiry.
 
Just noticed on facebook that a new episode will be out before christmas. Also big developments in 2020, still dribbling out the information.
The NCAT decision is due out by monday as well. I think the results of that will be a good indication if Marion did just start a new life or there was foul play. If the dont allow much additional information it would mean they are still protecting her privacy. All or most of the files would indicate no privacy issues involved.
Do you think I'm right.

I think you're spot on Garyb.
 
The Florabella name has been mentioned many times before- and reference to Marion's time teaching in the Blue Mountains. It seems she married Ray Barter in Lapstone- is this around about the time she lived and taught in the Blue Mountain region?

It has been mentioned that Florabella Street in Warimoo, is home to the local primary school. It also straddles the Florabella Pass that runs between Warimoo and Blaxland. The pass seems to run very near also to Blaxland Public School. I know Marion probably didn't teach at either of these schools, but if she lived in the region she was likely familiar with at least the name of the Florabella Pass. She may have taken walks in the area and the name stuck with her.

In addition to this someone mentioned the record of a Florabella Stocks- Florabella Hazel Stocks to be precise- is recorded in censuses and directories from 1958 right up to 1980.

We don't seem to have heard too much of Marion's childhood. But she was born in the Marrickvale area of Sydney- this is an 11 minute drive from Belmore- where in 1958 to 1968 Florabella Stocks lived with a Gordon Robert Stocks- and an address is on the main Canterbury Street where there now appears to be a rundown vacant build for lease. Marion was 13 or thereabouts in 1958. Could Florabella have been someone she knew from her childhood or looked up to?

Florabella then is registered as living in Peakhurst also with Gordon Robert Stocks throughout the 1970s and in 1980. Not far from Marrickville either- but Marion would have left the area by then. All I can find on either Gordon or Florabella is these registrations in censuses and directories. No marriage records on either, death or births. The only thing is their last listed address from 1980 comes up as having last been sold in 1995- possibly a death date for one or the other?

Gordon Stocks comes up as a photo engraver and then later a printer, Florabella Stock's occupation is simply "home duties" - similar to Florabella Remakel (but that would not be uncommon for a woman who was an adult by 1958!) ..could mean nothing, but looked for as much as I could as it seems the only Florabella of much note coming up in Australia..I can't find anything on google. In the absence of marriage records, this Gordon and Florabella could have been brother and sister rather than married and have reamined unmarried.

Could Florabella have been a stay at home unamrried woman, with no kids who took a shine to Marion and Marion to her? I am maybe going too far with this..but although it may have seemed irrelevant, Marion's history- as far back as her childhood could be very important. Was she close to her own mother, what was her home life like? People wonder why her sisters are not as involved...they will be the ones who knew about anything important or noteworthy from her childhood. Sally may not know much depending on what Marion was comfortable to tell her.

Was Marion on good terms with Jack (her dad)? He obviously desperately wanted to find her too, but what was their relationship like? It is senstive questions, but the way she was in her adult life could be explained in part by how she found her childhood, how she was with her own kids and whether or not she had it in her to just dissappear on them voluntarily..
Sophie-Renee, I have to say this is all super interesting .... are you able to put up screenshots of this? I'm wondering what their address was, especially in Peakhurst ... we know Marion was in Issaac Street peakhurst in 1966 at least, from the incoming passenger card. Completely brilliant post ... has made me very curious now ...... thanks Sophie
PS: No worries if you can't upload screenshot, just me being greedy
 
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The Florabella name has been mentioned many times before- and reference to Marion's time teaching in the Blue Mountains. It seems she married Ray Barter in Lapstone- is this around about the time she lived and taught in the Blue Mountain region?

It has been mentioned that Florabella Street in Warimoo, is home to the local primary school. It also straddles the Florabella Pass that runs between Warimoo and Blaxland. The pass seems to run very near also to Blaxland Public School. I know Marion probably didn't teach at either of these schools, but if she lived in the region she was likely familiar with at least the name of the Florabella Pass. She may have taken walks in the area and the name stuck with her.

In addition to this someone mentioned the record of a Florabella Stocks- Florabella Hazel Stocks to be precise- is recorded in censuses and directories from 1958 right up to 1980.

We don't seem to have heard too much of Marion's childhood. But she was born in the Marrickvale area of Sydney- this is an 11 minute drive from Belmore- where in 1958 to 1968 Florabella Stocks lived with a Gordon Robert Stocks- and an address is on the main Canterbury Street where there now appears to be a rundown vacant build for lease. Marion was 13 or thereabouts in 1958. Could Florabella have been someone she knew from her childhood or looked up to?

Florabella then is registered as living in Peakhurst also with Gordon Robert Stocks throughout the 1970s and in 1980. Not far from Marrickville either- but Marion would have left the area by then. All I can find on either Gordon or Florabella is these registrations in censuses and directories. No marriage records on either, death or births. The only thing is their last listed address from 1980 comes up as having last been sold in 1995- possibly a death date for one or the other?

Gordon Stocks comes up as a photo engraver and then later a printer, Florabella Stock's occupation is simply "home duties" - similar to Florabella Remakel (but that would not be uncommon for a woman who was an adult by 1958!) ..could mean nothing, but looked for as much as I could as it seems the only Florabella of much note coming up in Australia..I can't find anything on google. In the absence of marriage records, this Gordon and Florabella could have been brother and sister rather than married and have reamined unmarried.

Could Florabella have been a stay at home unamrried woman, with no kids who took a shine to Marion and Marion to her? I am maybe going too far with this..but although it may have seemed irrelevant, Marion's history- as far back as her childhood could be very important. Was she close to her own mother, what was her home life like? People wonder why her sisters are not as involved...they will be the ones who knew about anything important or noteworthy from her childhood. Sally may not know much depending on what Marion was comfortable to tell her.

Was Marion on good terms with Jack (her dad)? He obviously desperately wanted to find her too, but what was their relationship like? It is senstive questions, but the way she was in her adult life could be explained in part by how she found her childhood, how she was with her own kids and whether or not she had it in her to just dissappear on them voluntarily..
I really appreciate your posts and the effort you put into sleuthing! Makes a change from all of us just having a moan about the podcast. Ha ha.
 
Sophie-Renee, I have to say this is all super interesting .... are you able to put up screenshots of this? I'm wondering what their address was, especially in Peakhurst ... we know Marion was in Issaac Street peakhurst in 1966 at least, from the incoming passenger card. Completely brilliant post ... has made me very curious now ...... thanks Sophie
PS: No worries if you can't upload screenshot, just me being greedy


No problem. I will do my best. Never uploaded to this site before so hoping it works..
 
32397_178965__0004-00222.jpg 32397_178962__0002-00096.jpg Unfortunately, the files seem to be too large when I initially tried to upload but there are a couple above and a couple below where I have tried to simply save the images- hope it works!

1958- 689 Canterbury Road, Belmore , Gordon a photo engraver and Florabella with home duties

They were at the same address and with same duties still in 1968.

The last 2 show 1972- the address at 22 Wattle Street , Peakhurst 2210, Gordon a printer and Florabella an hd..I think this means "hand" occupation and were still at this address in Peakhurst in 1980.
 

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I really appreciate your posts and the effort you put into sleuthing! Makes a change from all of us just having a moan about the podcast. Ha ha.


You are very welcome- once I read an intial hint on this site, I can end up getting engrossed in searching for more. The intial Florabella hint came from someone else here back a number of months ago. Can't remember who..thanks to them for give me something to go with, must look back and double check who...!
 
Sophie-Renee, I have to say this is all super interesting .... are you able to put up screenshots of this? I'm wondering what their address was, especially in Peakhurst ... we know Marion was in Issaac Street peakhurst in 1966 at least, from the incoming passenger card. Completely brilliant post ... has made me very curious now ...... thanks Sophie
PS: No worries if you can't upload screenshot, just me being greedy
I meant to say, I didn't even know Marion had lived in Peakhurst herself. I only know she was born in Marrickville, which just goes to show we know very little about her early life, before marriage. Unless this was discussed very early on in the podcast and I maybe missed it..

Florabella Stocks was certainly still in Belmore in 1968-(wish I could find out her age!) but, between then and 1972 she moved across to Peakhurst herself which is definetely interesting. I will need to look again at Marion's timeline to compare both their movements.
 
This shows the 1968 electoral record. But it shows Johnny Warren (year after he married Marion as a public relations officer), however it does show them in the Mordale subdivision in Ballantyne Road. Wattle Street is certainly on one side of Mortdale and it was sometime after 1968 that Florabella moved here. Marion must have moved from Issac Street and then into the Ballantyne Road home after her marriage to Johnny. I know she divorced him in 1969 so will be interesting to see how long she stuck around the area for (if at all). It would soon start to be the years when Sally and Owen were born.
 

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