Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[KiwiNZ]

If Someone was impersonating Marion on the return to Australia they would likely have known about the car and would be annoyed that Sally hadn’t deposited the money that they were set to steal. If this is a crime then it was a very involved and sophisticated one, they would have known every detail of Marion’s life at that time. My opinion on Mr Remarkel, if there is a connection between the Ad and this case it’s just as likely that someone used his name in the advert.

Did the confirm that Marion could speak / read French ?

 

[Garyb]

With the question being raised about lack of fact checking, has it been confirmed that the money was actually taken in $5000 lots from the bank in Byron bay.
Or is the only evidence a phone call Sally had with a call center.

 

[Mel 1303]

With the question being raised about lack of fact checking, has it been confirmed that the money was actually taken in $5000 lots from the bank in Byron bay.
Or is the only evidence a phone call Sally had with a call center.

I THINK, but have not recorded in my timeline notes, that Garry Sheehan confirmed it, but will have to go back and check. We do know that Garry has the commonwealth bank records. I am not up to that episode yet in my relisten, so cant give you an episode time.

 

[Mel 1303]

If Someone was impersonating Marion on the return to Australia they would likely have known about the car and would be annoyed that Sally hadn’t deposited the money that they were set to steal. If this is a crime then it was a very involved and sophisticated one, they would have known every detail of Marion’s life at that time. My opinion on Mr Remarkel, if there is a connection between the Ad and this case it’s just as likely that someone used his name in the advert.

Did the confirm that Marion could speak / read French ?

Where I struggle to see an imposter being responsible is when I consider Marion's behaviour prior to leaving. Quitting her job- sure, she wasn't happy. Selling the house- sure, it was too big, and we know that earlier in her life she was reluctant to rent out her home with her stuff in it. But changing her name- only on her travel documents-speaks to planning. The police have spoken to the witness for the name change, and believe it was Marion, not an imposter who changed the name. After selling the house- the money is just sitting in the bank, and she is able to withdraw in $5000 increments. If you are going to be away for a year, wouldn't you put that money in a term deposit and scoop up lots of interest? To call Sally and specifically say not to expect to hear from her for a while- and then arrive in Australia again the very next day sounds like planning and preparing.

There has to be a third identity. Neither Marion nor Florabella seem to exist after 1997. If she planned this, and pulled it off, a third identity is at play. I doubt the third name would be as flamboyant as Florabella.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Off topic but missing person related.
For decades the traditional 'missing person' poster has been used to enlist the community's help to find individuals who may be in danger.

But with more than 2,600 Australians now listed as a "long-term" disappearance, the federal police are trying what they hope will be a more successful tactic: turning the search into a game.

More than 350 internet sleuths and "ethical hackers" — hobbyists and professionals — gathered at 10 locations around the country on Friday in a national missing-persons "hackathon".
The aim was to generate leads for 12 of Australia's most frustrating cold cases, using sophisticated but legal methods of trawling the internet.

And organisers said the results were astounding: 100 leads were generated every 10 minutes the competing teams worked.


Police turn to hackers in Australia's first crowdsourced attempt to find missing people

 

[KiwiNZ]

Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, p

 

[KiwiNZ]

Where I struggle to see an imposter being responsible is when I consider Marion's behaviour prior to leaving. Quitting her job- sure, she wasn't happy. Selling the house- sure, it was too big, and we know that earlier in her life she was reluctant to rent out her home with her stuff in it. But changing her name- only on her travel documents-speaks to planning. The police have spoken to the witness for the name change, and believe it was Marion, not an imposter who changed the name. After selling the house- the money is just sitting in the bank, and she is able to withdraw in $5000 increments. If you are going to be away for a year, wouldn't you put that money in a term deposit and scoop up lots of interest? To call Sally and specifically say not to expect to hear from her for a while- and then arrive in Australia again the very next day sounds like planning and preparing.

There has to be a third identity. Neither Marion nor Florabella seem to exist after 1997. If she planned this, and pulled it off, a third identity is at play. I doubt the third name would be as flamboyant as Florabella.

I agree that Marion did all you say, but if I remember correct Sally said her mother was quite gullible and naive, and I wonder if she ended up in an elaborate scam, that she did all she did under some type of lie from someone else. It would have to be the crime of the century to pull of a multi country rouse but just a thought as this case is so bizarre

 

[xdfg]

I wonder why they can't get Facebook to show whose account that was (like, what was the associated email address).

Also, (I'm new here but listened to the whole podcast), what if she really did leave AU after 3 days - she could have flown out on a European passport (which is why her Aussie one never left the country again). Sometimes you have to show proof of your exit ticket. Perhaps we need to try to get the country exit logs for 3 days later.

Different tip I reckon, the 2002 Crimestoppers tip says Marion was buried in Armidale, and the Clark Hunter tip in 2013 said Marion was alive :
Mystery post
In 2013, someone identifying as Clark Hunter posted this on Leydon's Facebook site:

"Natalia is alive but you (sic) never see her again," it read.

'Natalia is alive but you (sic) never see her again'.

"‘It was not her intention to disappear. She was forced."

Afterthought ... but wait, yes, I see what you mean, could have been connected to the crimestoppers call, wanting to make them believe Marion was still around. Yes indeed. Might have been dobbed in by someone in the Crimestoppers call, all possible.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I wonder why they can't get Facebook to show whose account that was (like, what was the associated email address).

Also, (I'm new here but listened to the whole podcast), what if she really did leave AU after 3 days - she could have flown out on a European passport (which is why her Aussie one never left the country again). Sometimes you have to show proof of your exit ticket. Perhaps we need to try to get the country exit logs for 3 days later.

I agree another passport could have been used, but the money been taken from the count in Aus did not start until approx. 1 month after she arrived back, so she did not leave 3 days later.

 

[Kelliepat]

Where I struggle to see an imposter being responsible is when I consider Marion's behaviour prior to leaving. Quitting her job- sure, she wasn't happy. Selling the house- sure, it was too big, and we know that earlier in her life she was reluctant to rent out her home with her stuff in it. But changing her name- only on her travel documents-speaks to planning. The police have spoken to the witness for the name change, and believe it was Marion, not an imposter who changed the name. After selling the house- the money is just sitting in the bank, and she is able to withdraw in $5000 increments. If you are going to be away for a year, wouldn't you put that money in a term deposit and scoop up lots of interest? To call Sally and specifically say not to expect to hear from her for a while- and then arrive in Australia again the very next day sounds like planning and preparing.

There has to be a third identity. Neither Marion nor Florabella seem to exist after 1997. If she planned this, and pulled it off, a third identity is at play. I doubt the third name would be as flamboyant as Florabella.

The Police spoke to the person who signed passport photo, I don't recall that they have spoken to whoever signed/witnessed Deedpoll.

 

[Kelliepat]

I THINK, but have not recorded in my timeline notes, that Garry Sheehan confirmed it, but will have to go back and check. We do know that Garry has the commonwealth bank records. I am not up to that episode yet in my relisten, so cant give you an episode

 

[Mel 1303]

The Police spoke to the person who signed passport photo, I don't recall that they have spoken to whoever signed/witnessed Deedpoll.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant the change of name on the passport, the dentist who witnessed the photograph.
He (the dentist) obviously knew of the name change. Surely he would have asked her what on earth she was doing. We know Garry Sheehan has interviewed him- he must have had some interesting information.

 

[Mel 1303]

I agree that Marion did all you say, but if I remember correct Sally said her mother was quite gullible and naive, and I wonder if she ended up in an elaborate scam, that she did all she did under some type of lie from someone else. It would have to be the crime of the century to pull of a multi country rouse but just a thought as this case is so bizarre

There are certainly those out there who have no qualms with scamming someone- I agree that this would be the crime of the century and very difficult to get away with, but crazy things happen sometimes.

Marion may have been gullible and naïve in some areas of her life, but she was a hardworking single woman who had moved interstate for a new job, purchased a house, established herself within the community. Sally sounds as though she was very supportive of her mum travelling overseas for a year on her own- so she must also have been very strong and competent.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Sunday morning thoughts .... been looking at Grafton today, where the Medicare card was used .... as pointed out a while back in the thread by a sleuther, sorry can't remember who at the moment, but that's pretty interesting that there are a few airports near Grafton. Could Medicare card have been used just before travel? Wondering if Marion could have gone to Norfolk Island, you didn't need an Australian passport at the time, and then moved on from there? End of Sunday spontaneous thought. Wonder if it's been checked.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

If Someone was impersonating Marion on the return to Australia they would likely have known about the car and would be annoyed that Sally hadn’t deposited the money that they were set to steal. If this is a crime then it was a very involved and sophisticated one, they would have known every detail of Marion’s life at that time. My opinion on Mr Remarkel, if there is a connection between the Ad and this case it’s just as likely that someone used his name in the advert.

Did the confirm that Marion could speak / read French ?

That's a good theory KiwiNZ, quite possible. Marion did know some French that she taught the children apparently, not sure if she was fluent though, one of the other sleuthers might know. Thinking whoever answered the ad would have written in French or spoken it on the phone? If someone was impersonating a Monsieur Remakel they would have to be fluent in French - reading/writing ... that's a big clue really.

 

[Meligator]

When Sally ran into her mom at McDonalds, Marion clearly was trying to avoid introducing Sally and the man. I wonder if Marion had started a relationship with someone under under false pretense (pretending she didn’t have any children). As the relationship progressed, she needed to maintain her lie and become childless. Perhaps far fetched, but it’s awfully weird for Marion to avoid a simple exchange of hellos, knowing that Sally saw her. Marion’s behavior seems more likely an effort to avoid introducing Sally as her daughter—rather than keeping Sally from seeing her out with the mystery man.

 

[Brejay53]

I’ve just spend 2 days reading everyone’s comments as haven’t been on here since August.

People are mentioning the passport and how the person from customs said that Marion’s passport come into the country but hasn’t left but by then her passport was in the name of florabella..
I was under the impression that even if you changed your name by deed poll all names that you have previously been known as are all attached to that passport.
Otherwise criminals for example who have changed their name by deed poll and leave the country will fly under the radar.

I also believe she changed her name because she wanted a new identity in England. She didn’t want to be associated with what people were saying about TSS.. maybe she thought her name had been tarnished by these claims and a name change would be a fresh start..
No one knew her in England so she could be who ever she wanted to be..

I live not far from Tunbridge Wells and used to work close to there. If I was coming for a holiday from Australia to England I wouldn’t think to go there. She’s gone to tunbridge wells on someone’s recommendation or to meet someone..

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

That's a good theory KiwiNZ, quite possible. Marion did know some French that she taught the children apparently, not sure if she was fluent though, one of the other sleuthers might know. Thinking whoever answered the ad would have written in French or spoken it on the phone? If someone was impersonating a Monsieur Remakel they would have to be fluent in French - reading/writing ... that's a big clue really.

Do we know if its been clarified if Marion could read French? You would have to read French reasonably well to be interested in a French newspaper.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

When Sally ran into her mom at McDonalds, Marion clearly was trying to avoid introducing Sally and the man. I wonder if Marion had started a relationship with someone under under false pretense (pretending she didn’t have any children). As the relationship progressed, she needed to maintain her lie and become childless. Perhaps far fetched, but it’s awfully weird for Marion to avoid a simple exchange of hellos, knowing that Sally saw her. Marion’s behavior seems more likely an effort to avoid introducing Sally as her daughter—rather than keeping Sally from seeing her out with the mystery man.

I'd really like to know more about this man. It surprises me so little attention is given to tracking him down (by the podcast). They went all the way to Luxembourg to confront someone on a fairly slim possibility but have practically ignored someone actually seen with Marion shortly before she disappeared.
Marion said he was from the art centre. Did Marion have a membership there or visit often? She was clearly attending the art centre until just before she left Aust. Other patrons of the art centre might have had friendships with Marion or know who the tall man might have been.
I have wondered if perhaps Marion hid the mans identify from Sally because he was married. This may have prevented him from coming forward in the intervening years. He might also have been someone connected to her new life and she wanted to keep him separate/unaware of her old life.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant the change of name on the passport, the dentist who witnessed the photograph.
He (the dentist) obviously knew of the name change. Surely he would have asked her what on earth she was doing. We know Garry Sheehan has interviewed him- he must have had some interesting information.

Do you think it could be possible that the Dentist didnt know about the name change?
If the photo was certified as a true photo of Marion Barter it might still be accepted with the passport application for Florabella because Marion had an identification document showing that Marion and Florabella were one and the same person (change of name document).