Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

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Peralta said:
For years the Byron Bay bank manager (who was married to a Byron Bay police officer) said she didn't recall Marion or those withdrawals.

So to have her turn around and suddenly remember Marion... hahahaha... oh my.

One has to ask... who does it benefit?
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There has to be a sea of emotions of guilt, shame and a desire for self preservation in the mind of the bank manager over these withdrawals. If it was someone impersonating Marion, were IDs checked properly? Were procedures followed correctly? If it was Marion, could the bank staff have intervened somehow to save her? These emotions could be clouding any evidence given.

Some of the bank staff appear to have helped spread the evidence of Marion wishing to cut contact with her family and start a new life. Whether they did this deliberately, negligently, or unwittingly, it’s going to impact the way they provide evidence.

In the early years, it was probably safer to not recall the withdrawals when the case was low profile.

As the case has become so prominent maybe the bank manager’s conscience got the better of her. Driving out of Grafton towards Ballina, Marion’s billboard is right in your face. (I was driving from Sydney to Brisbane recently with a stop in Grafton and had forgotten about the billboard but couldn’t help getting a big thrill when it loomed up in front of me.)
 
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Peralta said:
Something that stuck with me, is that when the Byron Bay bank manager was brought in as a last minute witness to the inquest, Casselden specifically asked her if seeing she was married to a Byron Bay police officer, could her *new* memory of Marion (being flip, withdrawing her money to move to Bali, wanting to start a new life, etc) might be something she heard at home from her husband? Or if she follows the podcast? She said no. But (IMO) it does put the reliability of her statement into question, particularly as she was questioned by police several times over the years, and always said she couldn't remember anything about Marion or those withdrawals.

For context:
Sally claims she went to police 20 Oct 1997.

Byron Bay police claim Sally went to police 22 Oct, 1:15pm.

Later that day at 2.52pm, a warning was put on the file that there were fears for person's welfare/safety, yet it was marked as an occurrence not a missing person.

13 hours later at 4:13am 23 Oct, file changed to 'no further action until person is reported missing'.

Never, in any of the police notes does it say the police saw/located Marion, or the bank saw/located Marion.
And by their own notes, they made no investigation because despite 'fears for welfare' there was 'no further action' required.

Yet about a week after visiting the police, Sally recalls Byron Bay police calling her to say they found Marion and she didn't want anyone to know where she was. Which, of course, Byron Bay cannot remember doing.

IMO, the unsubstantiated rumor that Marion was seen somehow spread so far, the Salvation Army repeated it to Marion's family.

Salvation Army claim they got their info from AFP Missing Persons.
AFP Missing Persons claim they got their info from 'Security' at Colonial Ashmore who told them it was definitely Marion who withdrew $80k and she spoke of 'starting a new life'.
However, Ashmore bank manager claims they never had a Security Officer (back then or ever).
Moreso, Ashmore bank manager doesn't remember the police or Salvation Army ever calling him about Marion.

And it gets worse. In 2007, AFP Missing Persons found NO evidence that Marion had been sighted, so they changed the ‘occurrence’ to ‘missing person’ and sent Marion's file back to Byron Bay to investigate. But AFP Missing Persons don't think anyone at Byron Bay was ever allocated the case.

Then the case was officially shut down again with Sally/Marion being removed from 'the face of missing persons' campaign. Sally remembers being told it was because her mother was not a missing person as she'd been located and didn’t want to be found.

However, in a police email exchange, the reason given is that the case had "challenges". At inquest, a police officer said those "challenges" might simply mean that nothing had been done for 10 years and highlighting Marion's case for the campaign could bring the police embarrassment.

For years the Byron Bay bank manager (who was married to a Byron Bay police officer) said she didn't recall Marion or those withdrawals.

So to have her turn around and suddenly remember Marion... hahahaha... oh my.

One has to ask... who does it benefit?

The main inconsistency in all this is, in my opinion, is that after Marion's accounts were drained, she disappeared with no proof of life after October 1997. Records indicate she never went overseas to Europe or Bali to start a new life. So where is she, what happened to her an where is her money?

Coincidentally, her last known boyfriend/lover opened a bank safety envelope the day before her last withdrawal/proof of life. He is someone with a long criminal past of forgery and theft.

It just boggles the mind how this case didn't have arrests made within the first month of being reported.
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I’m very glad to have your voice back on the case, @Peralta! I agree with everything you’re saying.
 
I forgot to add this police note to my post:

22 Oct 1997, 2:37pm COPS entry:
“The next of kin is concerned that the POI, who is her mother, has travelled to England and has returned to Australia on Tue 2 August 1997 and did not contact her upon return. Members of the family have received postcards dated 30 August 1997 from England. Enquiries with the POI’s bank indicated that she has acted on her account a number of times including several transactions at Byron Bay. The last transaction was the sum $80,000 by telegraphic transfer possibly to an overseas account. A stop has been placed on the account with a narrative for the POI to contact her daughter as a matter of urgency. At this stage it is not planned to list the POI as a missing as it is believed she is capable of this behaviour. It is not unusual for her to not contact members of the family. She is a 3 times divorced woman in her 50’s and one possible scenario for her behaviour is that she returned to Australia with a companion and has transferred the funds to England to purchase a property there with the view to move to England.”



In my opinion, it basically admits that Byron Bay police didn't bother performing a welfare check on Marion because she'd been divorced too many times. They closed the case without further investigation because they came up with "one possible scenario" for Marion's behaviour - based on her marital status - and that was good enough.

How on earth did the police know Marion was thrice divorced? And what has that got do with a welfare check and her account being drained???

Although the police appear to have contacted banks, nowhere in their note does it say either bank remember Marion or Marion saying she was going overseas and didn't want to be found.

Also notice how they have Marion's incoming passport date. Sally didn't tell them that because Sally didn't know! The reason Sally approached the police was because she thought Marion was overseas but money was coming out of her Australian bank. The phone banking lady even told her it was a red flag for theft and she should go to the police.

And now, the bank manager suddenly remembers Marion saying she was going to Bali to start a new life, not England. And then possibly saw her again around ten years later doing a 'return to work' course.

Remember the emails the podcast got through FOI surrounding the cancellation of the AFP Missing Persons Campaign? In there, a NSW police officer was insistent that Marion had been located in 1997 and again in 2006! Despite AFP Missing Persons not finding ANY evidence Marion had ever been seen since being dropped off at the bus stop in 1997.



It is infuriating, isn't it?
 
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CuriousKat99 said:
As far as I am aware, the bank teller has not been located.

Description of Marion at the BB bank as a “bit of a flip” possibly indicates:
1. The person wasn’t Marion but someone else impersonating her
2. The person was Marion but under the influence of a mind altering substance.
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Bit of a flip because they were being scatty and anxious as they were impersonating someone else.
 
It is my personal suspicion that some people within Marion's own family spoke poorly of her to the police when perhaps they were contacted to see what they thought or if they knew anything of her whereabouts. That they did not support Sally's point of view and more so derided Marion somewhat. Thereby creating the perfect storm whereby the police dismissed Sally as being a 'worry wort' and put M's erratic behaviour or appearance of erratic behaviour down to her being 'eccentric' and flighty and a bit bonkers. At which point we must add in a huge dose of misogyny and dismissive attitude from various quarters, sadly. JMO MOO
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
It is my personal suspicion that some people within Marion's own family spoke poorly of her to the police when perhaps they were contacted to see what they thought or if they knew anything of her whereabouts. That they did not support Sally's point of view and more so derided Marion somewhat. Thereby creating the perfect storm whereby the police dismissed Sally as being a 'worry wort' and put M's erratic behaviour or appearance of erratic behaviour down to her being 'eccentric' and flighty and a bit bonkers. At which point we must add in a huge dose of misogyny and dismissive attitude from various quarters, sadly. JMO MOO
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Yes, Marion father etc would have disclosed to police Marions past.
 
Wonder if they've also taken a thorough statement from the Car Salesman who knew the deH's well and recognised a woman looking remarkably like DdeH sitting in a car across the road while AH was in buying another.

Hopefully the investigation net is spreading wider......
 
Peralta said:
The fact envelope was closed on Mon 27 Oct is bonkers!
I updated timeline to include departure dates, when sally vs police claim missing report was made, and car sale.

Thu 31 Jul - RB arrives in Oz as Richard Lloyd Westbury after being o/s for 6 weeks (departed Tue 17 June).
Sat 2 Aug - MB arrives in Oz after being o/s for 6 weeks (departed Sun 22 June). She is now married, a resident of Luxembourg, and intends to stay just 8 days to see family.
Thu 7 Aug - MB cancels her car insurance.
Sat 9 / Sun 10 Aug - For unknown reason’s, MB doesn’t leave Oz as originally planned.
Mon 11 Aug - RB buys a car.
Wed 13 Aug - MB uses her medicare at an optometrist in Grafton.
Fri 15 Aug or Mon 18 Aug - Daily withdrawals start at Byron Bay with a few days at Burleigh Heads, goes on for possibly 3.5 weeks.
Sep - There seems to be a gap in activity between mid September and mid October, at least nothing revealed to public.
Thu 14 Oct - RB opens safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
Wed 15 Oct - $80k withdrawal/transfer from State Bank Ashmore.
Sat 18 Oct - Owen’s birthday, Marion didn't call.
Mon 20 Oct - SL goes to Byron Bay to look for MB and speaks to bank and police.
Wed 22 Oct - When Byron Bay police say SL first approached them.
By Sun 26 Oct - RB + family moved from Wollingbar back to East Ballina.
Mon 27 Oct - RB closes safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
By Sun 30 Nov - DdH claims the car purchased in Aug was sold, but records show car registered to their family until 2001.
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Very helpful. If it is known that they have a large property portfolio, are there details of when properties were purchased (not rented) to add to the timeline?
 
Jennyw12000 said:
Very helpful. If it is known that they have a large property portfolio, are there details of when properties were purchased (not rented) to add to the timeline?
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There definitely wouldn’t be a large property portfolio in their own names as this would render them ineligible for the disability/carer’s pensions. However, there may be properties in different IDs or in the names of close relatives. Records of property ownership in NSW and probably all other states of Australia are held for a lot longer than 7 years. There certainly could be a money trail still in existence if those with the authority to obtain this information wanted to investigate.
 
CuriousKat99 said:
There definitely wouldn’t be a large property portfolio in their own names as this would render them ineligible for the disability/carer’s pensions. However, there may be properties in different IDs or in the names of close relatives. Records of property ownership in NSW and probably all other states of Australia are held for a lot longer than 7 years. There certainly could be a money trail still in existence if those with the authority to obtain this information wanted to investigate.
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Correct in that purchased in various names
 
Peralta said:
I forgot to add this police note to my post:

22 Oct 1997, 2:37pm COPS entry:
“The next of kin is concerned that the POI, who is her mother, has travelled to England and has returned to Australia on Tue 2 August 1997 and did not contact her upon return. Members of the family have received postcards dated 30 August 1997 from England. Enquiries with the POI’s bank indicated that she has acted on her account a number of times including several transactions at Byron Bay. The last transaction was the sum $80,000 by telegraphic transfer possibly to an overseas account. A stop has been placed on the account with a narrative for the POI to contact her daughter as a matter of urgency. At this stage it is not planned to list the POI as a missing as it is believed she is capable of this behaviour. It is not unusual for her to not contact members of the family. She is a 3 times divorced woman in her 50’s and one possible scenario for her behaviour is that she returned to Australia with a companion and has transferred the funds to England to purchase a property there with the view to move to England.”



In my opinion, it basically admits that Byron Bay police didn't bother performing a welfare check on Marion because she'd been divorced too many times. They closed the case without further investigation because they came up with "one possible scenario" for Marion's behaviour - based on her marital status - and that was good enough.

How on earth did the police know Marion was thrice divorced? And what has that got do with a welfare check and her account being drained???

Although the police appear to have contacted banks, nowhere in their note does it say either bank remember Marion or Marion saying she was going overseas and didn't want to be found.

Also notice how they have Marion's incoming passport date. Sally didn't tell them that because Sally didn't know! The reason Sally approached the police was because she thought Marion was overseas but money was coming out of her Australian bank. The phone banking lady even told her it was a red flag for theft and she should go to the police.

And now, the bank manager suddenly remembers Marion saying she was going to Bali to start a new life, not England. And then possibly saw her again around ten years later doing a 'return to work' course.

Remember the emails the podcast got through FOI surrounding the cancellation of the AFP Missing Persons Campaign? In there, a NSW police officer was insistent that Marion had been located in 1997 and again in 2006! Despite AFP Missing Persons not finding ANY evidence Marion had ever been seen since being dropped off at the bus stop in 1997.



It is infuriating, isn't it?
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Can confirm GC had written incorrect date on his notes
 
I keep wondering about confiscating proceeds of crime. Whether, assuming charges are laid / guilt proven, this could be a thing in this case. I’m not a lawyer so don’t understand but I just found we have a ‘Confiscation Act 1997’. All just my personal opinion /rambling thoughts, of course. Plus I know I’m jumping ahead.
 
I don't think they would have a property portfolio. The safety deposit envelopes/boxes/vaults etc would have been opened to hold cash, share certificates/jewellery/coins. Jewellery and coins are easily transfrred to cash, coins could be laundered by buying and selling at Coin fairs. The saftey deposits could be used to hold cash to pay for the tickets to go overseas. The overseas funds would be replenished by going to ?Tournai? to access funds from his pension? from Alphons?

In NZ similar frauds when caught, often show large amounts of cash, jewellery (ingots) and then items of conspicuous comsumption like Skiddoos, motorbikes, flash cars. AKA seems to have been savvy enough not to use these indicators so he could maintain his defrauding of the Australian Govt's social welfare scheme (benefits & pensions) Many people have a concept that defrauding the Govt/people of a country is not fraud, I suspect he would be one of them.
 
charliethecat said:
I don't think they would have a property portfolio. The safety deposit envelopes/boxes/vaults etc would have been opened to hold cash, share certificates/jewellery/coins. Jewellery and coins are easily transfrred to cash, coins could be laundered by buying and selling at Coin fairs. The saftey deposits could be used to hold cash to pay for the tickets to go overseas. The overseas funds would be replenished by going to ?Tournai? to access funds from his pension? from Alphons?

In NZ similar frauds when caught, often show large amounts of cash, jewellery (ingots) and then items of conspicuous comsumption like Skiddoos, motorbikes, flash cars. AKA seems to have been savvy enough not to use these indicators so he could maintain his defrauding of the Australian Govt's social welfare scheme (benefits & pensions) Many people have a concept that defrauding the Govt/people of a country is not fraud, I suspect he would be one of them.
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He is also not averse to burying valuables, so I think he may have stashes in tin boxes around the place.

Just been thinking about the BM idea that she may have seen marion at a return to work seminar. This is crazy. Marion was 51. She had had her children, she was teaching and contributing to a super fund. Return to work is usually after children. Seminars cover changes in work practices, updating skills in WP etc. MB would be making moves to think ahead to her retirement (10 years away if Aus is the same as some Govt Depts in NZ) To me this means that BM was totally away with the fairies in her evidence, or that she did see a person who was much younger or younger looking than Marion, someone who may have looked as though she did not have children or only very young children.
 
charliethecat said:
He is also not averse to burying valuables, so I think he may have stashes in tin boxes around the place.

Just been thinking about the BM idea that she may have seen marion at a return to work seminar. This is crazy. Marion was 51. She had had her children, she was teaching and contributing to a super fund. Return to work is usually after children. Seminars cover changes in work practices, updating skills in WP etc. MB would be making moves to think ahead to her retirement (10 years away if Aus is the same as some Govt Depts in NZ) To me this means that BM was totally away with the fairies in her evidence, or that she did see a person who was much younger or younger looking than Marion, someone who may have looked as though she did not have children or only very young children.
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Good point re unlikelihood that Marion would be participating in a return to work program. She could have accessed her super at 60 anyway.

I wonder if any close female associates of you-know-who ever attended a return to work program.
 
CuriousKat99 said:
Good point re unlikelihood that Marion would be participating in a return to work program. She could have accessed her super at 60 anyway.

I wonder if any close female associates of you-know-who ever attended a return to work program.
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Hm interesting point. Perhaps someone who had been long term claiming welfare benefits whilst looking after young children and being a part time 'carer' for her husband would be expected to start thinking about seeking work at a certain point when the kids become a certain age?
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Hm interesting point. Perhaps someone who had been long term claiming welfare benefits whilst looking after young children and being a part time 'carer' for her husband would be expected to start thinking about seeking work at a certain point when the kids become a certain age?
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Totally
 
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