Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[SouthAussie]

Has it ever been reported where each family thought there loved one was and for how long they would be gone?

I don't think we have ever heard where Carol's family thought she was going, just when she would be gone.

I am not sure that we know the specifics of exactly where Russell told others he would be camping. But I think if anyone knew, it would be his ham radio friends. Russell's wife (and presumably anyone who was with her at the time) was privvy to those ham radio conversations ... she listened to them on a ham radio at home.

When told that Carol was missing with Russell, it probably wouldn't be much of a leap in thinking for either family ... Russell's wife knew he had been seeing Carol for 20 years. It is possible that others knew.

We posted info back in the threads where people said that Russell and Carol thought they were being discreet, but others could tell there was a lot to their relationship.

 

[Satchie]

We posted info back in the threads where people said that Russell and Carol thought they were being discreet, but others could tell there was a lot to their relationship.

Just an irrelevant comment, but that's where people's minds go if a male and female are in each others company, I have personally experienced those assumptions when I am with a male friend, eg a married work colleague, and there's absolutely no question of romance.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just an irrelevant comment, but that's where people's minds go if a male and female are in each others company, I have personally experienced those assumptions when I am with a male friend, eg a married work colleague, and there's absolutely no question of romance.

Yes. I guess Russell and Carol having been childhood sweethearts may have something to do with people's impressions also.

They had history, and then they had a re-kindled relationship ... for whatever that was seen as being.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't know that it could be called forensics.
I imagine they checked inside the portable toilet and it was clean and empty.

That's a new kind of forensic evidence, never seen that used before! Bt it is indeed significant, and a detail that a perp wouldn't think of to 'cover up'...

 

[Satchie]

I don't know that it could be called forensics.
I imagine they checked inside the portable toilet and it was clean and empty.

Yes, but what if there had been something there...

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm wondering if she did know the extent of it and that he took her camping.

Russell's wife knew he had been seeing Carol for 20 years.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm wondering if she did know the extent of it and that he took her camping.

Only she would know, I guess. With Carol also travelling with Russell on some of his previous logging trips - when he was still employed - she could have suspected more, or not. They had obviously been in each others company a lot, so others would have seen them here and there.

I have the impression that hurting Russell's wife was not something either of them wanted to do. Hence they tried for discretion.

 

[srper2]

Your linked article says the same quoted police statement as posted before (from the Advertiser) ...

“Missing Persons squad can confirm we have used NSW Police cadaver dogs as part of the searches for missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay in the Wonnangatta area,” Victoria Police said in a statement.

I am asking if anyone has an accessible link in which police report using cadaver dogs in the initial searches in 2020? I cannot find anything and wonder how effective they would be after 12 months of seasonal weather on the site. If there were bodies they could have been eaten and dispersed by now.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Elderly campers went missing a year ago - Deniliquin Pastoral Times

Campers found Mr Hill's vehicle with signs of minor fire damage at their campsite near Dry River Creek Track in the Wonnangatta Valley on March 21. The campsite had been completely destroyed by fire.

Police would like to speak to anyone who saw this fire or the smoke from it.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, it does, but it does not state anywhere in the article that police have used cadaver dogs in the initial search in 2020. The entire article needs to be read/quoted in context as a small snippet can be easily misinterpreted/misquoted. I am asking if anyone has an accessible link in which police have reported using cadaver dogs in the initial searches in 2020?

Has someone mentioned that the dogs were used in 2020? I hadn't noticed that anywhere. Just speculation that if they had used them at that time, what indicators that Russell and Carol might have been 'carted away' might have been.

This whole case is open for speculation. And I think we are just trying to grasp what specifically is leading the detectives down the path of "foul play".

 

[srper2]

Has someone mentioned that the dogs were used in 2020? I hadn't noticed that anywhere. Just speculation that if they had used them at that time, what indicators that Russell and Carol might have been carted away might have been.

This whole case is open for speculation. And I think we are just trying to grasp what specifically is leading the detectives down the path of "foul play".

Yes, it would be very helpful if we could clarify if cadaver dogs were brought in then, very frustrating trying to find out!

 

[Marchalot]

If the toilet wasn't used maybe they'd already been along the way somewhere? Therefore there could be footage, if not , that's a long way and you'd be busting so a ambush could be but RH could have used the bush there even CC along the way...

 

[Marchalot]

Elderly campers went missing a year ago - Deniliquin Pastoral Times

Campers found Mr Hill's vehicle with signs of minor fire damage at their campsite near Dry River Creek Track in the Wonnangatta Valley on March 21. The campsite had been completely destroyed by fire.

Police would like to speak to anyone who saw this fire or the smoke from it.

What if someone took a wiss against RH truck and had too destroy the dna with fire . Why was all the other outside gear destroyed but not the toilet frame, could someone have needed to use it for something hidden other than use the toilet itself

 

[Estelle]

I'm going for the attackers were known to him or her or both. Someone knew they were going there and headed up there.

The white Ute at the long drop was seen there the day before. Was it waiting for them to pass, remember they stayed overnight elsewhere before arriving?

There's no mention if they had changed into sleeping gear or whether they had time to change at all.

I guess the only way this could be confirmed is if a family member could say what they had on or what was missing from their luggage.

I'm not seeing this as being a run-in with a stranger who came prepared for taking bodies, DNA destroying and a Drone. This looked pre planned and professional all over in 30 minutes.

I suspect that Carol and Russell were followed by a person hired to kill - but somewhere else. That could be why the fire occurred soon after they set up camp as they would have used the toilet before they went to bed.

 

[SouthAussie]

I suspect that Carol and Russell were followed by a person hired to kill - but somewhere else. That could be why the fire occurred soon after they set up camp as they would have used the toilet before they went to bed.

Well, if that is the case there won't be many motives that could be applicable. And it would likely narrow down the suspect pool quite a lot.

 

[srper2]

Just an irrelevant comment, but that's where people's minds go if a male and female are in each others company, I have personally experienced those assumptions when I am with a male friend, eg a married work colleague, and there's absolutely no question of romance.

Although I doubt there are many people who would feel that comfortable about their husband going camping alone with a divorced female friend while they were not informed as in this situation unfortunately. I feel that this was a reason RH's wife was so quick to start getting rid of his belongings. Even if he showed up again, things would never be the same as his wife had already got rid of his stuff out of her life.

 

[SouthAussie]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the police already have a good idea of who the white dual cab ute belongs/belonged to? And they are looking to solidify their suspicion, or shake the tree?

I found it curious the remark that was made, to the effect of ... 'and if they have since sold the vehicle that will make them suspicious'. (I will have to go back and see how that was worded, when I have time.)

 

[srper2]

Correct me if I am in error here, but the bare basics and some new thoughts and wild speculations for me are:
- RH had camped alone in the area a week before. maybe a trial run? Is it possible he had set up the camp in advance so they could just arrive and CC didn't have to worry about set up?(But they were reported to have camped one night on the way there - was this in a tent or a hut though?) (Sometimes people will go ahead and nab a spot, set up and then have the spot they want before the rush - eg: Easter hols rush!). (Just a wild guess, but possible!). (The spot they were in was reported to be secluded and not able to be seen from the main track).
- Assumed RH did collect CC and take her on the trip as CC told people she was going away and her belongings were found in the vehicle. (Were sightings of them together actually confirmed)
- RH spoke on radio to friend, but did not disclose he had CC with him. Radio trouble. (RH may not have disclosed the the friend that he had set up and left a camp there when he visited a week before, as his friend had talked about the group not being happy about RH taking CC on a couple of previous group camps).
- That same evening RH upset a worker camping in the valley to spray weeds by flying his drone over his campsite. (In my opinion, this person should be able to offer a lot of info, as surely he would have seen smoke from the burning camp site if he was still in the area when it burnt).
- So they radioed RH's friend, set up camp and flew drone, did not use the toilet. Were there any used food containers found?
- Assuming they disappeared by nxt morning *This could be incorrect) as toilet now confirmed as never used by a Websleuther, unless as previously suggested they went to the toilet in the bush, not in the portable toilet. But if they intended to do that, why would they have bothered to set it up?
- When did weed spraying man leave? (important to me).
- There would have to be a lot of information to be found in the burnt site, I think we are not being told as it will be future evidence.
- Hunters in area reported to have left freshly killed deer close to RH and CC's camp site (60 mins special)- but these could have been killed after RH and CC had disappeared as it took several days for the disappearance to be reported and followed up.

(I am looking to see if "ghost" campsites are an issue in vic!)
Frustration at Tasmania's 'ghost' camp sites, set up in prime tourist spots weeks in advance

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes, reading between the lines that's the feeling I get. That they have someone in mind.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the police already have a good idea of who the white dual cab ute belongs/belonged to? And they are looking to solidify their suspicion, or shake the tree?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Victorian Alps disappearance: the friends who went into Australia's wilderness and never came back

A year ago, two friends in their 70s went missing in some of the wildest terrain in Australia: Wonnangatta Valley. It’s the sort of place where you might go days without seeing anyone, with only kangaroos and snakes for company. A place of snow-capped mountains – even in summer. A place of bushfires and danger.

The sort of place where it’s easy to get lost.

Russell Hill and Carol Clay are thought to be dead. But technically they’re still just missing.

Wonnangatta’s near where epic scenes from The Man From Snowy River were filmed, a place that is beautiful and fierce.

It’s a “national park that takes in a pristine river valley ringed by rugged snow-capped mountains” and is well-known, “thanks to its epic tracks and an enigmatic murder mystery”, according to the tourist guide.

What we don’t know: Were they murdered? Were they accidentally killed by deer hunters? Did they get lost? Was there an accident?

No one is wondering out loud if they’re still alive. The head of Victoria police’s missing persons squad, Detective Inspector Andrew Stamper, said this week that “it is highly unlikely that either Russell or Carol are still alive”.