Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[bearbear]

The mystery of two campers missing in the Victorian wilderness for more than a year has taken another turn, with detectives redirecting the search back to the campgrounds where the pair first vanished from.
Bizarre twist in missing campers case

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Specialist police resume search for missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay

Detectives have returned to search remote tracks, rivers and cliffs in the area where missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay were believed to have stayed before they went missing.

Police on Monday said they returned to the Wonnangatta area in Victoria's high country as a result of information obtained from previous searches. They are focusing their efforts on the Dargo High Plains Road, Cynthia Range Track and Herne Spur Track.

Detective Acting Inspector Tony Combridge said in mid-April that police believe a third party was involved in the disappearance.

There are no suspects at this stage, but there are still several persons of interest. Police have yet to determine whether any of those people were linked to the Mount Hotham area.

Acting Inspector Combridge said one line of inquiry was that items may have been thrown from a car travelling along that stretch of the Great Alpine Road. He described it as an incredibly remote area.

 

[Kemug]

regarding gun shots, since there needs to be two people that are killed then there could be sounds of a person in distress between the 1st and 2nd shot, which would probably echo across the valley as loud as the 2nd shot itself.

Good point, Bats!

 

[Marchalot]

I wondered about that bc of someone described as" out of place " but I've seen dressy in the hills . If it was byc ? where's Russell ? If you seemed hostage, someone would notice it , hopefully. They wouldn't vol disappear & put their families thru that . Someone took time to make sure fire didn't spread , that's someone calmish in a major situation. Or someone pizzed off that they have momentarily justified a act

Maybe it was Carol that was seen at the long drop toilet.

 

[Kemug]

But I wonder, perhaps she was tidy enough to empty the toilet basin
after using it?

Do we have any experts here who know all about this kind of toilet? And what sort of toilet it likely was, come to that?

 

[Kemug]

Given the non-usage of the toilet, I am beginning to wonder if they were attacked before they had even had dinner. So pretty much straight after they had set up. How could you annoy someone so quickly?

 

[Marchalot]

If drugs?, can make ppl easily annoyed and show-off...! The drone , Prior disputes.. is a innocent lady somewhere aware that she could have been mistaken for carol in same area but not come forward? Surely she'd be aware of the news and come forward & clear that up , unless she has ? ...Why show the car with seemingly bullet holes but not mention anything? I thought it would have been blurred out tbh.

Given the non-usage of the toilet, I am beginning to wonder if they were attacked before they had even had dinner. So pretty much straight after they had set up. How could you annoy someone so quickly?

 

[JLZ]

If drugs?, can make ppl easily annoyed and show-off...! The drone , Prior disputes.. is a innocent lady somewhere aware that she could have been mistaken for carol in same area but not come forward? Surely she'd be aware of the news and come forward & clear that up , unless she has ? ...Why show the car with seemingly bullet holes but not mention anything? I thought it would have been blurred out tbh.

If those are bullet holes there should have been bullets inside the car--I would have thought.

 

[Marchalot]

If those are bullet holes there should have been bullets inside the car--I would have thought.

Wouldn't a high powered go straight through ( not a gun person) ? Or maybe there was some inside?.. maybe someone's drill ..idk

 

[JLZ]

O/T Are you all getting pop-up videos of a sudden? I don't like it. I might have to absent myself for a few days and hope they get removed.

 

[Kemug]

Re the lady queuing at the longdrop toilet - I am starting to think that maybe it really was Carol. Apparently there was a resemblance, and she was also "dressy"? Or am I misremembering?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think there were different possible sightings.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ore-reports-of-sightings-20200526-p54wp1.html

A sighting of an older lady at the long drop toilet at Black Snake Creek on March 22;
A sighting of an older couple driving out from Black Snake Creek Hut on March 22 where the female was wearing lipstick and looked out of place; and
A sighting of an older couple near the Eaglevale River crossing and campsite on March 22.

Re the lady queuing at the longdrop toilet - I am starting to think that maybe it really was Carol. Apparently there was a resemblance, and she was also "dressy"? Or am I misremembering?

 

[Marchalot]

I've wondered about this too, It was I think a few days later I think? That's another theory I'd feel guilty thinking about it. What the hecks happened up there

 

[Marchalot]

I

I think there were different possible sightings.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ore-reports-of-sightings-20200526-p54wp1.html

A sighting of an older lady at the long drop toilet at Black Snake Creek on March 22;
A sighting of an older couple driving out from Black Snake Creek Hut on March 22 where the female was wearing lipstick and looked out of place; and
A sighting of an older couple near the Eaglevale River crossing and campsite on March 22.

I wonder if any of these ppl have come forward when hearing it on the news. "Oh that could have been me "

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if for privacy reasons we'll ever know.
Though Police have not come out and said that they've ruled out the sightings as far as I know.

And I think the mentions of Carol as being well dressed all came from her friend or friends, at the CWA.

I wonder if any of these ppl have come forward when hearing it on the news. "Oh that could have been me "

 

[DannyMosquito]

I think the fire is a red herring. It doesn't make any sense. In most situations investigators are pretty good at determining if a fire is deliberately lit and the inconclusiveness in this situation is more of an exception to the rule. In any case if I'm a bag guy why would I burn a tent to perhaps destroy forensic evidence and then go to all the effort and risk to dispose of the bodies elsewhere. By burning the tent the bad guy(s) is already advertising it's foul play, why then bother hiding the bodies. Wouldn't you just put the bodies in the tent and set it all on fire and get out of there. Also if you're worried about forensic evidence the last thing your going to want to do is place the bodies in your vehicle. Taking the bodies away makes no sense. It just adds a whole lot more risk and complexity. I cannot come up with scenario where the tent being set on fire (on purpose) has a logical set of events.
Obviously there are possibilities I just think they are improbable.

 

[limnody]

Do we have any experts here who know all about this kind of toilet? And what sort of toilet it likely was, come to that?

Most likely toilet would have been like one of these. This is a very well known brand
Porta Potti Qube 365 - 21 Litres

You add freshwater to a holding tank to flush and additives to the tank to treat inputs and control odours.

MOO

 

[DannyMosquito]

It's also interesting to note in this article on the abc
Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery
about a quarter way down the page past the picture of his burnt out truck it states that the lead investigator, Inspector Stamper, said that its possible that the mobile phones and drone were burnt unrecognizeable in the fire however its unlikely he would have left them unsecured in the tent. Fair enough. The reason i say its interesting is the fact the fire was so extreme that it could obliterate things so that investigators couldn't even determine them. I think the fire may have been caused by Jim charging a spare drone battery using something he'd rigged up with a car battery or similar. Drone batteries can be extremely volatile. Have a look on YouTube at drone batteries catching fire. They are like a raging volcano when they go off. They cause extreme fire with no accelerant.

 

[SouthAussie]

It's also interesting to note in this article on the abc
Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery
about a quarter way down the page past the picture of his burnt out truck it states that the lead investigator, Inspector Stamper, said that its possible that the mobile phones and drone were burnt unrecognizeable in the fire however its unlikely he would have left them unsecured in the tent. Fair enough. The reason i say its interesting is the fact the fire was so extreme that it could obliterate things so that investigators couldn't even determine them. I think the fire may have been caused by Jim charging a spare drone battery using something he'd rigged up with a car battery or similar. Drone batteries can be extremely volatile. Have a look on YouTube at drone batteries catching fire. They are like a raging volcano when they go off. They cause extreme fire with no accelerant.

There is a bunch of convo about the things you mention in previous threads. As those were the original thoughts by the investigators. Seems they might have moved past the battery fire concept now.

The only reason I can think of for burning the tent is to destroy potential DNA evidence. Which would mean that involved persons would have been inside the tent, I think. Maybe ransacking it looking for valuables, as they did in Russell's vehicle.

 

[DannyMosquito]

There is a bunch of convo about the things you mention in previous threads. As those were the original thoughts by the investigators. Seems they might have moved past the battery fire concept now.

The only reason I can think of for burning the tent is to destroy potential DNA evidence. Which would mean that involved persons would have been inside the tent, I think. Maybe ransacking it looking for valuables, as they did in Russell's vehicle.

Did they ransack his vehicle though? I thought it was found locked and undisturbed. If that's the case then its obviously foul play. I thought the only reason the investigators have given for foul play is the lack of any signs of the bodies during their extensive search of the surrounding area. And they have therefore concluded the only explanation is the bodies had to be moved elsewhere by someone. They also maintain that the cause of the fire is suspicious however the cause is inconclusive. Also i believe they were originally thinking it was a mobile phone charger however they have moved past this. A fire caused by a drone battery is much different.