Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[musicaljoke]

How is it 'irresponsible' of the venue to ask him to leave? They've obviously viewed him being unsteady on his feet (or he's shown other signs of intoxication) and the only way they could ensure he didn't consume any more alcohol on their premises (and risk themselves getting a fine) was to kick him out.

He's an adult. From the video he looked to be a bit wobbly, but was alert and not in need of medical help at the time. Are bars and clubs meant to offer personal lifts home now, I don't understand?

Here, in Canada, licensed establishments must take reasonable care to make sure their patrons leave safely, get home safely, and don't harm anyone on their way home. Bar owners can't kick a drunk person onto the street.

Usually that means calling a cab. When we plan an event, such as a community dance or wedding reception, we arrange a bunch of drivers to take the drunk friends and cousins home.

 

[mussopossum]

The IMEI would be recorded in a database the same with other lost or stolen phones that are reported.
If any attempt was made to use the phone, regardless of the sim, then a trigger would be set off.
I suspect the phone was found and someone tried to start it up resulting in that last ping. Phones don't start by themselves. Remote possibility it was stolen.
His Oppo phone is only IP54 rated. It won't last long in the water.

I have to agree with you,

The only thing is, We have only heard about a final network ping at about 1pm June 1.

It has not been released that we have seen so far if the network provider has other ping notifications between 6am - 2pm that day.

It may be the last ping reordered after 1pm June 1 that is mentioned as it was the final and significant ping to them.

I do agree with you, someone found that phone disturbing it from its previous mode and set off a ping IMO.

And to me, all the more importance in police following up these people appearing in photos on The beach at Tallows the sunrise June 1st.

Maybe someone found it at 6am then shoved it in their belongings whilst they walked swam or surfed and then left after 1pm setting off that final ping.

 

[BusterXP]

Here, in Canada, licensed establishments must take reasonable care to make sure their patrons leave safely, get home safely, and don't harm anyone on their way home. Bar owners can't kick a drunk person onto the street.

Usually that means calling a cab. When we plan an event, such as a community dance or wedding reception, we arrange a bunch of drivers to take the drunk friends and cousins home.

They can in Australia. You can argue re Duty of Care, and I think they should have a responsibility, but the law requires that they can't have an intoxicated person on the premises. 'Intoxicated' is defined in the legislation and I don't think Theo seemed to meet that criteria but it's objective.
It's a balancing act between an assumed Duty of Care and the legislation. There's also a balancing act betweens serving alcoholic drinks and contributing to intoxucation.
The alcohol consumption was voluntary and voluntary administration doesn't create a legal obligation.
It's different if you assume the care of someone who can't care for themselves. In that case, under certain circumstances, you can create a Duty of Care. You can basically walk past someone who is dying and do nothing in most States in Australia unless you assume a duty of care.
Bottom line here is that you can't force someone to take a Cab or whatever.
What I'd like to see come from the inquest is a voluntary Code of Conduct (if there isn't one already).
We don't know how 'intoxicated' Theo was but it seems as if he was able to make his own decisions.

 

[BusterXP]

It has not been released that we have seen so far if the network provider has other ping notifications between 6am - 2pm that day.

I don't think there would have been enough left in the battery for much use of the phone at all. That battery isn't the most powerful and Theo having used GPS (or the phone did tracking) sucks up a lot of battery. It was a reasonably long time since he left Get Up! where he would have had the opportunity to charge it up. No mention made if he had access to or used any charging sources when he was out.
Hence I go with low battery, power savings mode, phone shuts down at 5% then 'someone' tries to start it up the next day.

 

[Rocket333]

They can in Australia. You can argue re Duty of Care, and I think they should have a responsibility, but the law requires that they can't have an intoxicated person on the premises. 'Intoxicated' is defined in the legislation and I don't think Theo seemed to meet that criteria but it's objective.
It's a balancing act between an assumed Duty of Care and the legislation. There's also a balancing act betweens serving alcoholic drinks and contributing to intoxucation.
The alcohol consumption was voluntary and voluntary administration doesn't create a legal obligation.
It's different if you assume the care of someone who can't care for themselves. In that case, under certain circumstances, you can create a Duty of Care. You can basically walk past someone who is dying and do nothing in most States in Australia unless you assume a duty of care.
Bottom line here is that you can't force someone to take a Cab or whatever.
What I'd like to see come from the inquest is a voluntary Code of Conduct (if there isn't one already).
We don't know how 'intoxicated' Theo was but it seems as if he was able to make his own decisions.

Thanks Buster. You’ve articulated that well. You know, the least they could do out of good service or common courtesy is say “hey mate quickly tell your friend you’re leaving.”

 

[Rocket333]

I don't think there would have been enough left in the battery for much use of the phone at all. That battery isn't the most powerful and Theo having used GPS (or the phone did tracking) sucks up a lot of battery. It was a reasonably long time since he left Get Up! where he would have had the opportunity to charge it up. No mention made if he had access to or used any charging sources when he was out.
Hence I go with low battery, power savings mode, phone shuts down at 5% then 'someone' tries to start it up the next day.

Add the probable use of the torch too. He possibly hadn’t charged it fully all day, or at least since overnight at Wake Up. Could’ve been a factor in playing the Burger Quiz clip so briefly too. It would’ve been a consideration for him the whole time though, as it’s clear he was keen to get home and reliant on google maps to do so.

 

[BusterXP]

Thanks Buster. You’ve articulated that well. You know, the least they could do out of good service or common courtesy is say “hey mate quickly tell your friend you’re leaving.”

I totally agree. That's why I'd like a recommendation to come out of the inquest.

 

[Chiatos]

The IMEI would be recorded in a database the same with other lost or stolen phones that are reported.
If any attempt was made to use the phone, regardless of the sim, then a trigger would be set off.
I suspect the phone was found and someone tried to start it up resulting in that last ping. Phones don't start by themselves. Remote possibility it was stolen.
His Oppo phone is only IP54 rated. It won't last long in the water.

The IMEI would be recorded if someone takes the trouble to look up the number and have it recorded by police. And police must also take some trouble recording. I wonder whether it has been recorded .

I think it’s time the authorities do what I suggested months ago... bring in excavators and start digging for a body at Cosy Corner. If these youth are the sons of surfy locals from the smaller coastal townships around Byron, they will be surfers and gym goers with strong bodies/arms. Hence their keenness to get into fights for the joy of knowing they are stronger. A group of them could easily dig a nice big deep hole in the sand in under an hour.

Wouldn't cadaver dogs have detected a body when they were brought in?

 

[Rocket333]

The IMEI would be recorded if someone takes the trouble to look up the number and have it recorded by police. And police must also take some trouble recording. I wonder whether it has been recorded .


Wouldn't cadaver dogs have detected a body when they were brought in?

Trained dogs are still regarded as the best way to find a corpse. Didn’t the cadaver dogs go over CC?

 

[reeniVroo]

I find it odd that Theo didn't message his friend who he went to Cheeky's with to tell him he has been booted. Maybe had other things on his mind. Just odd as they spent the day together, went to bottle shop together, the barb q at Wake Up then went to Cheeky's together, would think he would have messaged him. He added him on his FB so he was able to but for some reason he didn't.

This has been bothering me too. I keep thinking if that was me, if I had gone out with friends after spending the day with them, and gotten kicked out I would be messaging those friends inside telling them what happened. I've also wondered if he was texting someone in that footage of him walking (almost into the pole) just after getting kicked out of CM.

 

[Rocket333]

This has been bothering me too. I keep thinking if that was me, if I had gone out with friends after spending the day with them, and gotten kicked out I would be messaging those friends inside telling them what happened. I've also wondered if he was texting someone in that footage of him walking (almost into the pole) just after getting kicked out of CM.

It’s interesting that in the latest podcast (#3) they say Theo left CMS looking at his phone, then paused further along Kingsley Street to look up directions to WU. They don’t say what he was looking at when he left the bar and turned the corner.

 

[SouthAussie]

*There is a comparable link between the missing case of Theo Hayez, 18 and the two missing young men Frenchman, Erwin Ferrieux, 21 and his English friend Hugo Palmer, 20 missing at Shelleys beach Port Macquarie, 3 hours away from Byron Bay with their car keys, towels and glasses found on the beach as confirmed by a passer by who noticed them the previous evening.
Bones that were washed up a kilometre away about a month after have not been conclusively confirmed to be that of the two gentleman's. Their bodies, clothing, wallets, mobile phones, shoes have not been found which we know is the same as Theo, all missing from a beach in the night.

Start digging Shelleys Beach Port Macquarie!

I believe that three bones were linked to Erwan Ferrieux by DNA.
I don't believe we ever heard the result of a fourth bone that may have belonged to Hugo Palmer .. just that it would be tested in 'coming weeks'.

“We believe from the DNA comparisons that it belongs to Erwan Ferrieux, a 21-year-old backpacker who was travelling with his companion, and went missing in the Shelley Beach area in February of this year,” Superintendent Paul Fehon said.
Grim wait for backpacker’s family

Australian police said that three human bones discovered near Port Macquarie were believed to be those of Ferrieux.
Search for British backpacker Hugo Palmer after companion’s bones found in Australia

I, too, have wondered if the cases may be linked. But I think it is far more likely that - if murdered - Erwan and Hugo (and Theo) were dumped in the ocean where they may never be discovered, and if they are discovered their MOD/COD would likely not be able to be determined.

 

[SouthAussie]

This has been bothering me too. I keep thinking if that was me, if I had gone out with friends after spending the day with them, and gotten kicked out I would be messaging those friends inside telling them what happened. I've also wondered if he was texting someone in that footage of him walking (almost into the pole) just after getting kicked out of CM.

Yes. It is odd. No message to say he was kicked out. No message to say he was making his way back to Wake Up hostel/hanging on the beach, if his friend was looking for him.

No message to say he was in trouble. (Though he may not have had the opportunity for that.)

But time to send messages to far away people and perhaps open a YouTube video.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

The IMEI would be recorded if someone takes the trouble to look up the number and have it recorded by police. And police must also take some trouble recording. I wonder whether it has been recorded .


Wouldn't cadaver dogs have detected a body when they were brought in?

No too much time had passed by then, several months, and they are not good sniffing through deep sand especially after all of that time (assuming that they were taken to sniff at CC. If not, then the trail would have been dead a long time prior).

 

[SouthAussie]

Here, in Canada, licensed establishments must take reasonable care to make sure their patrons leave safely, get home safely, and don't harm anyone on their way home. Bar owners can't kick a drunk person onto the street.

Usually that means calling a cab. When we plan an event, such as a community dance or wedding reception, we arrange a bunch of drivers to take the drunk friends and cousins home.

Yes, we need that law/guideline here. The bar lets them in, lets them drink. That, to me, is a duty of care established.
Then to throw them out with no care about what happens after that ... just "you need to move right away from this establishment".

This particular venue encourages backpackers and discourages locals. It should be obvious to them that there may be a good degree of unfamiliarity and risk with the area, especially when the thrown out person is intoxicated.

 

[mussopossum]

I don't think there would have been enough left in the battery for much use of the phone at all. That battery isn't the most powerful and Theo having used GPS (or the phone did tracking) sucks up a lot of battery. It was a reasonably long time since he left Get Up! where he would have had the opportunity to charge it up. No mention made if he had access to or used any charging sources when he was out.
Hence I go with low battery, power savings mode, phone shuts down at 5% then 'someone' tries to start it up the next day.

I couldn't believe when I did it on full battery percentage that my phone was at 29% after a half hour then about 9% after 45 min and that was just putting in data and doing the same things he did

 

[Deleted member 255258]

New to this but have been following the case very closely,

Facts

1. Leaves Cheeky monkeys and pulls his phone out and fingers can be seen moving.
2. Walked to the end of Tennyson and waited/stood there for 7 minutes. then has intervals of speed walking, stoping and speed walking again through the pitch black bush.
3. Confirmed had not been to Cosy Corner prior!
3. Crossed two street, veered south in the opposite direction of cosy corner before turning north towards Cosy Corner.
4. Speed walked through pitch black track and off track with only his mobile phone.
5. Hat found in the direction of his walk through the track.
5. Got to Cosy Corner, sent a couple of messages, watched YouTube for a minute but was not using his phone for a while whilst there.

<modsnip: This information has not been published in MSM in Australia nor released by police or the family and is considered confidential information.>

8. Phone goes to sleep mode about 0200 am. - Confirmed by Lisa on podcast!
9. Phone wakes up about 0600. Confirmed by Lisa on Podcast!
10. Phone pings at 1342 the following afternoon from Cosy Corner.
11. Theo is 6ft tall.
12. No clothes, body, shoes, hoodie, wallet was found anywhere.
13. Months of searching and adverts - finds nothing directly connected apart from the possible hat which family believed is his.
14. Phone, sleep, wakes up, pings, zoomed mobile phones GPS twice which was set to WakeUp Hostel, Whatsapp messages, Youtube, all in the same location, COSY CORNER.

I have not added any speculation as I believe we are not allowed to do this on Websleuths so the above is confirmed fact!

Please read between the lines and you should be able to come to the same conclusion!

Start digging Cosy Corner Byron Bay!

*There is a comparable link between the missing case of Theo Hayez, 18 and the two missing young men Frenchman, Erwin Ferrieux, 21 and his English friend Hugo Palmer, 20 missing at Shelleys beach Port Macquarie, 3 hours away from Byron Bay with their car keys, towels and glasses found on the beach as confirmed by a passer by who noticed them the previous evening.
Bones that were washed up a kilometre away about a month after have not been conclusively confirmed to be that of the two gentleman's. Their bodies, clothing, wallets, mobile phones, shoes have not been found which we know is the same as Theo, all missing from a beach in the night.

Start digging Shelleys Beach Port Macquarie!

As with Sparks, I completely agree that Theo is buried at CC based on the evidence alone. Everything points to CC and stops at CC. Have often thought about a connection to Erwin/ Hugo. You are right, there was never a 100% match to Erwin's DNA. The media made many incorrect reports. The reality is that the DNA results from 2 bones found some similarities to it possibly being Erwin, the third not at all. By the way, bones found in the beach 5 months later, not one month later. Yes true, clothes and passports other items found in their rental car but the clothes/ shoes they would likely have been wearing that early morning, no. Towels, car keys and sunglasses only found on the beach. Then 3 bones of possibly ONE of them 5 months later a km away? Yes always thought this suspicious. Have a theory about Theo which links to CM - what if he was not thrown out of CM, but was sent on an "errand" in return for cash payment? He did not even ask the bouncer it seems why he was being thrown out when exiting the toilets. Just meekly left. Then stood outside the entrance to CM. Bouncer approached him, some interaction with Theo's phone (unknown). Then bouncer whispers in Theo's ear and immediately Theo walks off to Kingsley, pulls out his phone to enter the route to wakeup on Google maps while he purposefully walks to Tennyson and waits there for 7 minutes? Something happened inside CM. Maybe involving the guy he was dancing with on the table while a girl was trying to get his attention dancing provocatively on the bench next to the table? This was all on the podcasts so trying the think out of the box. Theo had to have arranged a meeting at Tennyson while in CM - there was not time for him to pre plan it after leaving CM and he clearly did not pre plan to leave CM when he arrived there. Thoughts anyone?

 

[SouthAussie]

The media made many incorrect reports. The reality is that the DNA results from 2 bones found some similarities to it possibly being Erwin, the third not at all.

My thought is, respectfully, that I would love to see a link that establishes this.

It was the police who established the DNA link of the found bones, not the media, as per the direct quote I posted from Supt Fehon.

When we quote things as fact here on WS, we need to be able to back them up with a relevant and allowable link. It is part of the TOS. Otherwise, rumours can take hold and grow legs.

The Rules

 

[Rocket333]

Yes. It is odd. No message to say he was kicked out. No message to say he was making his way back to Wake Up hostel/hanging on the beach, if his friend was looking for him.

No message to say he was in trouble. (Though he may not have had the opportunity for that.)

But time to send messages to far away people and perhaps open a YouTube video.

I recall reading or hearing somewhere that Antoine left CMs with a female friend, and they walked home together. Antoine may have been preoccupied, and Theo just left him/them to it.

 

[mishachilli]

Maybe he kept searching wakeup beca use he knew he was running out of battery on his phone? So he kept reminding himself of the route just in case he had to go without maps?