Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #2 *Arrests*

[Karo]

I am wondering now if JT and JT plead guilty will we hear anything about their part in it or will they just be sentenced, no court proceedings?

 

[Champaign]

I am wondering now if JT and JT plead guilty will we hear anything about their part in it or will they just be sentenced, no court proceedings?

If RT goes to trial their part will be played out in the courts.

 

[jessicalouise]

Wow. I have been reading this thread since the beginning and I just can't get over some people's comments.

Given everything we know about RT and the family to even suggest that a 12 year old girl in a foster family situation was consenting to having sex with her 18 year old foster brother is just so ludicrous! There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that (even though illegal) that it was "consensual" when there are people who have reported Tiah coming to them and telling them TT was touching her and having sex with her and no evidence whatsoever to suggest it was in any way welcome.

It seems blindingly clear that this is a very predatory/enabling family unit who saw foster children/family daycare children as not only an income stream but as potential targets. It appears as though RT thought he'd hit the jackpot with Tiah (non-white girl in QLD with a mother in jail) and had assumed that 1. she would not be listened to (she wasn't) 2. and that because of her status as a non-white foster child with a single parent in jail people would care less for her and her disappearance would slip through the cracks and be forgotten. She has been specifically chosen for those reasons and they saw her as disposable.

I don't for a second believe that they reason she was killed was to protect TT. I believe she was killed because she knew too much, she was telling people, she didn't want to participate in any sexual activity, she was no use to them, and that fundamentally she was killed because RT assumed he would get away with it. The way the family acted after her murder demonstrates they thought they could get away with it.

I believe that if it wasn't for Tiah's mother her murder would have been ignored and swept under the carpet. RT was not banking on that.
Also, post-death they have attempted to lie about her character and misrepresent her as some Lolita-esque vixen which ... wow, blind Freddy could see through that!

And nowhere in Australia is an 18 year old having sex with a 12 year old common these days. It is an anomaly. I'm sure it happens, but it is extremely uncommon. I grew up in an area where kids were losing their virginity at an earlier than average age and the only time i can think of this occurring was when a 12 year old girl i knew lied about her age to an older boy who was not known to her. It is and always has been seen as very perverse and predatory and not the done thing even when it is an anomaly.

 

[Bohemian]

Wow. I have been reading this thread since the beginning and I just can't get over some people's comments.

Given everything we know about RT and the family to even suggest that a 12 year old girl in a foster family situation was consenting to having sex with her 18 year old foster brother is just so ludicrous! There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that (even though illegal) that it was "consensual" when there are people who have reported Tiah coming to them and telling them TT was touching her and having sex with her and no evidence whatsoever to suggest it was in any way welcome.

It seems blindingly clear that this is a very predatory/enabling family unit who saw foster children/family daycare children as not only an income stream but as potential targets. It appears as though RT thought he'd hit the jackpot with Tiah (non-white girl in QLD with a mother in jail) and had assumed that 1. she would not be listened to (she wasn't) 2. and that because of her status as a non-white foster child with a single parent in jail people would care less for her and her disappearance would slip through the cracks and be forgotten. She has been specifically chosen for those reasons and they saw her as disposable.

I don't for a second believe that they reason she was killed was to protect TT. I believe she was killed because she knew too much, she was telling people, she didn't want to participate in any sexual activity, she was no use to them, and that fundamentally she was killed because RT assumed he would get away with it. The way the family acted after her murder demonstrates they thought they could get away with it.

I believe that if it wasn't for Tiah's mother her murder would have been ignored and swept under the carpet. RT was not banking on that.
Also, post-death they have attempted to lie about her character and misrepresent her as some Lolita-esque vixen which ... wow, blind Freddy could see through that!

And nowhere in Australia is an 18 year old having sex with a 12 year old common these days. It is an anomaly. I'm sure it happens, but it is extremely uncommon. I grew up in an area where kids were losing their virginity at an earlier than average age and the only time i can think of this occurring was when a 12 year old girl i knew lied about her age to an older boy who was not known to her. It is and always has been seen as very perverse and predatory and not the done thing even when it is an anomaly.

Beautiful post Jess x

 

[Karo]

Do you think her grandma was making it up that she was offered the chance to leave the foster family and refused because she had a crush on the boy?
I can't comprehend that a grandma would say it, even if true, also, wasn't her mother already out of jail at that stage.
I don't believe police would ever have given up, it looks like they were busy collecting information on the family all along.

 

[Champaign]

Do you think her grandma was making it up that she was offered the chance to leave the foster family and refused because she had a crush on the boy?
I can't comprehend that a grandma would say it, even if true, also, wasn't her mother already out of jail at that stage.
I don't believe police would ever have given up, it looks like they were busy collecting information on the family all along.

QLD police NEVER give up on cases. They are one of the most hard working police departments in the world. Even cold cases in QLD are solved many many years later. Child murders are particularly heinous. I agree they have been working along in the background to make the case stick. There is no point arresting someone only to have the walk out of the station due to lack of evidence. Police need a strong case to go to court. Otherwise if it is thrown out they don't get a second chance.

 

[tiddles24]

Sorry Champaign, I have to disagree with you here re "Qld Police never give up on cases".......Qld Police gave up on Daniel Morcombe's case after a while.......I live on the Sunshine Coast very close to where Daniel was abducted & followed this case in great detail.......It is only because Bruce & Denise (through their Lawyer) PERSISTED with keeping Daniel's abduction "out there for all to see" & never giving up on finding Daniel.......There was a story on "ABC AUSTRALIAN STORY with their Lawyer" a year or so ago to prove this point.......I will try to find a link (am not very tech savvy with adding links, says granny)..:findinglink: .MOO.

QLD police NEVER give up on cases. They are one of the most hard working police departments in the world. Even cold cases in QLD are solved many many years later. Child murders are particularly heinous. I agree they have been working along in the background to make the case stick. There is no point arresting someone only to have the walk out of the station due to lack of evidence. Police need a strong case to go to court. Otherwise if it is thrown out they don't get a second chance.

 

[Trooper]

I am wondering now if JT and JT plead guilty will we hear anything about their part in it or will they just be sentenced, no court proceedings?

what will happen if they plead guilty, which , I understand they have, is this.. in sentencing them, the judge will outline and detail their crime. This will then correspond to the sentence the judge will decree. Each and every crime, every time it was committed will be tabled, and each crime will have it's corresponding sentence set down, and made public. Because crime is public and public taxes go to upholding the courts and the law, and that sentencing belongs to you and I and everyone else. That is what the court proceedings will be in a guilty plea sentencing. ... nothing much will remain hidden, criminals lose their privacy , much like victims do.

 

[tiddles24]

Following on from my previous post.......The story was shown on ABC's "AUSTRALIAN STORY" titled "THE MAN BEHIND THE MORCOMBES" aired on 20/7/2015. Just Google it.

I strongly recommend that you watch this, as it will give insight into just how much time & effort that the Morcombes & their Lawyer contributed to this case.....I think you will agree, as I don't think a lot of you really know just how much input the Morcomces put into this case......I have the utmost respect for these people......It brings me to tears every time I watch it.

It concerns & bothers me that William Tyrrell's beautiful foster family are unable to go to the EXTREMES in finding William, compared to the Morcombes, in finding Daniel.......I feel that there was so much vital information lost in the very early stages of the search for William & it is my belief that this has had a huge impact on finding him, because the foster parents have not been afforded the opportunity (with all the red tape etc) that the Morcombes had (by being Daniel's biological parents).

I admire Tiah's mum Cyndi also for the effort she is showing in finding justice for Tiah...MOO.
It

Sorry Champaign, I have to disagree with you here re "Qld Police never give up on cases".......Qld Police gave up on Daniel Morcombe's case after a while.......I live on the Sunshine Coast very close to where Daniel was abducted & followed this case in great detail.......It is only because Bruce & Denise (through their Lawyer) PERSISTED with keeping Daniel's abduction "out there for all to see" & never giving up on finding Daniel.......There was a story on "ABC AUSTRALIAN STORY with their Lawyer" a year or so ago to prove this point.......I will try to find a link (am not very tech savvy with adding links, says granny)..:findinglink: .MOO.

 

[Babbakins]

Following on from my previous post.......The story was shown on ABC's "AUSTRALIAN STORY" titled "THE MAN BEHIND THE MORCOMBES" aired on 20/7/2015. Just Google it.

I strongly recommend that you watch this, as it will give insight into just how much time & effort that the Morcombes & their Lawyer contributed to this case.....I think you will agree, as I don't think a lot of you really know just how much input the Morcomces put into this case......I have the utmost respect for these people......It brings me to tears every time I watch it.

Respectfully snipped by me

Every time I see Denise Morcombe on TV I want to cry...I admire her so much, she and Bruce are incredibly strong people...but you can see the pain in her eyes, breaks my heart [emoji174][emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jessicalouise]

Do you think her grandma was making it up that she was offered the chance to leave the foster family and refused because she had a crush on the boy?
I can't comprehend that a grandma would say it, even if true, also, wasn't her mother already out of jail at that stage.
I don't believe police would ever have given up, it looks like they were busy collecting information on the family all along.

The grandmother comes across as a know-nothing moron. Any caring grandmother would be protective over her grandchild. Far out, she probably thinks the situation between Tiah and TT was "romantic". Either that or she has a skewed view of young girls as being flirtatious and "asking for it". She does not seem all that bright.

 

[Warshawski]

The grandmother comes across as a know-nothing moron. Any caring grandmother would be protective over her grandchild. Far out, she probably thinks the situation between Tiah and TT was "romantic". Either that or she has a skewed view of young girls as being flirtatious and "asking for it". She does not seem all that bright.

With all due respect for your opinions, I believe we need to be careful in judgement of people and situations that we really have no insight to.
For sure it is natural to wonder why a child would be in a situation as Tiahleigh was, when there are family members / a grandma around. However we are not privy to family / Grandma situation, of her state of health or other circumstances. It's my understanding ( don't ask me for links please but I am sure the clever here will find if you insist ) that Tiah was in Grdm care prior to her first foster experience. The reason for the change I have no idea of .

We are also not privy to any of that in relation to Grdm's dialogue with the media . .. (edited and sku'd to make the headlines perhaps) perhaps the loss of Tiah care was traumatic for Grdm. .. Alternatively perhaps it was embraced by Tiah.
Reports suggest her previous placing was very happy for everyone (and again it's natural to wonder why the change to the T family)

Perhaps the fractures between Tiah & Grdm were such that Tiah thought it better to pretend to be happy with the T's.....perhaps at that time she thought she could manage it. Perhaps she thought she could find solace and safety with the animals and escape everything else

perhaps...perhaps .. who knows. I just wish Tiahleigh the most blessed of eternal rest, and I wish her seemingly amazing Mum a speedy journey towards what will allow her finally a place where it's all now gone ( the wondering, the blaming, the guilt, the self-judgement and derilement, the questions, the want to get even, the need to make someone pay )

That place will come with comfort in closure, but also never ending love & memories, & as time goes on, quietly celebrated milestones, but a mother- daughter connection always real.

All those involved will pay (IMO). Plea bargaining and tossing the others on the fire will no doubt make a difference. In a similar situation I reckon I would look for ways to make it 5 years rather than 10; 10 rather than 20 ...

 

[1968]

I think much as the police would hate having to 'deal' with the reluctant co-operative efforts of Julene and Josh, they have no other choice. I think their evidence is very thin on the ground....

Presumably:

- no DNA and no fibre evidence from the body.

- not much and possibly no DNA or fibre evidence from the car.

- possibly some blood and DNA evidence from the house.

Tiah lived with the Thorburns, would have been in their vehicle. So just the presence of DNA blood or fibre would not be enough. As it would or could be expected to be found there. Blood would have to be in a quantity not able to be explained, or hidden, such as under a bed or a rug.

Presuming no phone pings? Otherwise Thorburns would have been in the frame at the start.

Possible CCTV footage of the Thorburn vehicle and any passengers.

Third Party testimony. What Tiah told her friends. What Trent told his cousin. What Tiah told Julene or Josh.

evidence that goes to Tiahs state of mind - running away, not wanting to go home etc etc.

Not an exhaustive list hopefully the police have more but I reckon they have had to water their case down against Julene and Josh to get them to talk because they are going to be the KEY witnesses.

IMO.

 

[Mandala]

There should be specific, sensitive training for all children that are in the system. They need to be told about sex, inappropriate touching, and be taught to learn to recognize abuse vs. 'love'. I wish they would give each child an alarm they could wear, so that if they're feeling threatened or worse, someone could show up immediately and step in. Of course, then we have to depend on the people responding to be properly trained, to have the drive, will and compassion to protect the child, and not brush it off because they're too overwhelmed. There's got to be a better way to protect our children.

Staff are trained in SOME agencies to do their utmost to provide all of this, trust me! Some agencies don't. The problem is, when a child has experienced trauma or neglect in their past, these things are difficult to instill, particularly between 12 to 15 years of age.

 

[jessicalouise]

With all due respect for your opinions, I believe we need to be careful in judgement of people and situations that we really have no insight to.
For sure it is natural to wonder why a child would be in a situation as Tiahleigh was, when there are family members / a grandma around. However we are not privy to family / Grandma situation, of her state of health or other circumstances. It's my understanding ( don't ask me for links please but I am sure the clever here will find if you insist ) that Tiah was in Grdm care prior to her first foster experience. The reason for the change I have no idea of .

We are also not privy to any of that in relation to Grdm's dialogue with the media . .. (edited and sku'd to make the headlines perhaps) perhaps the loss of Tiah care was traumatic for Grdm. .. Alternatively perhaps it was embraced by Tiah.
Reports suggest her previous placing was very happy for everyone (and again it's natural to wonder why the change to the T family)

Perhaps the fractures between Tiah & Grdm were such that Tiah thought it better to pretend to be happy with the T's.....perhaps at that time she thought she could manage it. Perhaps she thought she could find solace and safety with the animals and escape everything else

perhaps...perhaps .. who knows. I just wish Tiahleigh the most blessed of eternal rest, and I wish her seemingly amazing Mum a speedy journey towards what will allow her finally a place where it's all now gone ( the wondering, the blaming, the guilt, the self-judgement and derilement, the questions, the want to get even, the need to make someone pay )

That place will come with comfort in closure, but also never ending love & memories, & as time goes on, quietly celebrated milestones, but a mother- daughter connection always real.

All those involved will pay (IMO). Plea bargaining and tossing the others on the fire will no doubt make a difference. In a similar situation I reckon I would look for ways to make it 5 years rather than 10; 10 rather than 20 ...

Grandmothers are rarely privy to private information about crushes and it seems like pure random speculation on her behalf. It was an abhorrent thing for her to say in light of her going missing and being found murdered. In light of what has come out - being preyed upon and sexually abused - her opinion is not worth an ounce of anything but it sure will go to help TT's and RT's case. Hence me saying she is not very bright.

 

[BreakingNews]

With all due respect, police never give up on suspected murders. They might not disclose what they are doing for obvious reasons to anyone, but they don't give up. Although it might appear that way to others.

Sent from my Blade S6 using Tapatalk

 

[enthralled]

I find it frustrating that criminals may be shown some leniency if they "dob" in their mates. Where it is known that people are withholding evidence, they should get there sentence for their part in the crime plus extra time for withholding information. Time to stop looking after the criminals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Champaign]

Has anyone heard an update on TT bail application to the supreme court? John Ide solicitor said he would re apply within the month

 

[Kitsune]

Has anyone heard an update on TT bail application to the supreme court? John Ide solicitor said he would re apply within the month

I am not finding anything...... Even the FB page is quite. Surely a bail application would of been reported? Maybe once the Tostee trial is over we might hear more ?

 

[InDeep]

Hi. I get the sentiment of this thought. I think that the police are simply being pragmatic; doing what works. if any of criminals have sociopathic tendencies they will only respond if there is something in it for themselves!

I find it frustrating that criminals may be shown some leniency if they "dob" in their mates. Where it is known that people are withholding evidence, they should get there sentence for their part in the crime plus extra time for withholding information. Time to stop looking after the criminals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro