Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[Coldpizza]

William Tyrrell: ‘One million reasons’ to come forward over toddler’s abduction
7:29pm September 12, 2016

A $1 million reward, the largest in New South Wales history, has been announced for information that leads to the arrest of the person who abducted missing toddler William Tyrrell, or for the boy’s safe return or recovery.

William, then aged three, went missing from the backyard of his grandmother’s home in Kendall, on the state's mid-north coast, on September 12, 2014.

[...]

"You’re in a much better position if you come to us than if we come to you."

Det. Insp. Jubelin also said the investigation was "a long way" from going to a coronial inquest, and that police did not believe William's family were involved.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS WRITTEN BELOW. YOU MUST FOLLOW WHAT IS OUTLINED OR YOU WILL BE TIMED OUT OR BANNED!!!!

Thanks to DrSleuth for your help in writing up the information needed for the discussion.

Here is what we can and cannot discuss.

No identifying the biological family, the foster family or any associates ( ie siblings, etc ) or their addresses, places of employment or childcare, etc

They can be identified as bio mother etc & female foster carer etc

At the inquest, they are known as biological mother & father. Foster family are known as FFC ( female foster carer ) MFC ( male foster carer ) FFGM ( female foster grandmother ) etc
REMEMBER THE ABOVE PEOPLE CANNOT BE IDENTIFIED USING THEIR INITIALS.

Prior to the coronial inquest, the bio families could be identified, but it was overturned by the coroner for the inquest.

I am very sorry it took me so long to open this thread back up. Please keep in mind we are short handed so if this thread starts to get out of control with alerts we will have to close it again.
Please do not hesitate to alert but make sure the alert is truly needed. We have experienced a lot of tit for tat alerts and that makes me foam at the mouth, grow hair on my hands and my teeth turn into fangs. In other words please be sure when you post you are posting within our terms of service.

Thank you,
Tricia

Rules Etiquette & Information

William Tyrrell MEDIA/MAPS/TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

Thread #28 Thread #29 Thread #30 Thread #31 Thread #32 Thread #33 Thread #34 Thread #35 Thread #36 Thread #37 Thread #38 Thread #39 Thread #40 Thread #41 Thread #42 Thread #43 Thread #44 Thread #45 Thread #46 Thread #47 Thread #48 Thread #49 Thread #50 Thread #51 Thread #52 Thread #53 Thread #54 Thread #55 Thread #56 Thread #57 Thread #58 Thread #59 Thread #60 Thread #61 Thread #62 Thread #63 Thread #64 Thread #65 (Thread #66 pulled for review) Thread #67 Thread #68 Thread #69

 

[Sillybilly]

So, does that mean it's OK to discuss any other books on the subject?

There is no blanket approval. Please contact a Mod or Admin with the name of the book and the author and we will make a decision.

Chumley's book "Searching for Spiderman" is not approved.

Gary Jubelin's book and Caroline Overington's book are the only two that are approved for discussion at this time.

I think they should be okay - as one is a journo and one is an ex-lead detective on the case - but I will alert on my post and see if a mod can clarify how we should reference. Whether that be the book and page number, or a screenshot of the specific excerpt from the page of one of the allowable books.

IIRC stormbird was putting up screenshots when she spoke of particular passages from Overington's book.

Both books can be discussed.

Always give credit to the author. Book title, page # and paraphrasing or brief quotes are allowed.

Screenshots and more extensive quoting requires approval of the author (the copyright holder).

Do not try to get more content in by breaking it up into multiple posts.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Have just spoken with Tricia and she agrees that members can discuss the recent events surrounding the issuing of the AVO and the foster parents as potential POIs (which y'all have been doing anyway, right?)

While WS policy is that we are victim friendly, and this extends to family member, the policy has to be examined as to how it relates to specific discussions and new information as it comes to light. This is a thread specific exception that is being made based on MSM, obvious action and ongoing investigation by Australian law enforcement.

Discuss matters factually and speculate reasonably but without trashing these people or making direct accusations. Members who do so will be banned from the thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This case has its very own set of very unique circumstances that we are having to work around and we know it is difficult for our members.

Of course we have William's case, but we also have the complicating factors of the foster situation, a living minor child, a coronial inquest that prevents publication of names, an AVO not known 100% to be immediately connected to William's case.

Taking all the above into consideration, we can not allow sleuthing of individuals who have not been publicly named.

Discussing what is in MSM is fine, but actual sleuthing of unnamed persons and posting about their background, their personal information or social media is not allowed.

Thanks to everyone here for trying to post accordingly through all this murkiness.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

IMPORTANT

PLEASE READ AND 'LIKE' THIS POST SO WE KNOW YOU HAVE READ IT.

Thread #66 remains pulled due to a recent influx of trolls. We may be able to get it reinstated in a couple of weeks.

Those individuals that we have been able to identify have been banned. There may be others who registered earlier and are waiting in the wings.

This new thread is for discussion only by our long term, veteran Websleuths members who have a sincere dedication to William's case.

As a result of this recent troll invasion we are not allowing new members to join in this discussion.

We are requesting that our trusted members Report posts by new members who join Websleuths after today to participate in William's thread. We will review the matter and deal with it accordingly.

Those whose goal is to incite conflict are not welcome at Websleuths.

Thank you to all our members who have been able to participate respectfully and responsibly in this discussion. We truly appreciate you.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[bearbear]

Former William Tyrrell top cop Gary Jubelin enters witness box
https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...x/news-story/b3e2e83e1fe132dcacf3de06875f7812

 

[Akai]

Did Craddock ask AMS anything about the drive, when she appeared at the inquest?
I have wondered if she has been re-interviewed?

I don't recall, sorry. I wish I did one way or another. It's such an interesting point about witnesses confirming anything that might correlate arrivals and departures by the Fosters and I can't believe I haven't delved into it before.

 

[SLouTh]

Yes, thanks. I could access the article that I showed in the google preview, I knew that it would come up as a starred link if I tried to link it.

(BTW I can't access your link, but I have read those words)

Its really odd as the link doesn't work..... however I can read the entire article ....... It was published Sep 2015
I just did a google search with "Vanessa Partridge William Tyrrell" and it is the first article that pops up ....

New evidence is revealed in William Tyrell case. (.au)

 

[Tessi V]

That is exactly how I have felt.

The omissions that have surfaced are convenient ones, and they come in the context of someone who could go into excruciating details about other things. It makes no sense to me that she would go into that detail about masses of trivial facts and then be completely at sea on basic important things. If she was all over the place about everything, whether trivial or important, relevant or irrelevant, I would be more inclined to see her as genuine. But to my view there is a pattern that she is detailed about the irrelevant and not at all clear on the relevant. She claims certainty about things and then expects that changing other parts of her story will be believable and/or that we are expected to believe the things she was otherwise certain about.

I deem most of her commentary unreliable. Now whether dismissing that means that it is more likely that someone could have abducted William or she was involved is a different question. But given her determination to provide evidence that supports an abduction theory, I can't see why she would make things up when it was detrimental to believing an abduction theory. The clearer motive for making things up is to cover something up and then the subsequent insertion of information to paint the abduction theory.

It does my head in, honestly.

There seem to be so many conflicting (or inconsistent) reports in the media, it's hard to know what to believe.
For example:
This article states Laura Beaucroft joined the investigation in September.
Doubt over Tyrrell foster mum's car claims
This one has the FF stating he last saw William at 10:15am or I could be interpreting it wrong and he could be speaking on behalf of FM. But FM states that she took three photos that morming, while someone disclosed the inquest revealed five in total were taken that morning.
IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure
However it does answer a lot of questions people have posed over the past few weeks - about when she checked cupboards etc., amongst a lot of other stuff.

Then while I don't usually read the Daily Mail it also contains information that the father continued to search for four days. Idk what to say about any of it other than it feels like a lot of information gets lost in translation as well.
It's all strange as unlike CS it wasn't quite a public location yet it didn't occur from their place of residence either.

 

[gregjrichards]

“Former top William Tyrrell cop Gary Jubelin has been grilled by a judge over his use of disproved historical sexual assault charges to wrongly target a washing machine repairman in the missing toddler case.

Mr Jubelin spent Tuesday in the witness box of the NSW Supreme Court being questioned by lawyers for Bill Spedding.

Mr Jubelin repeatedly said 'I can't recall' in response to questions about using the child sex allegations thrown out of court years before to gain leverage over Mr Spedding as a potential William Tyrrell suspect.”

Ex-William Tyrrell cop Gary Jubelin grilled in witness box | Daily Mail Online

 

[SLouTh]

There seem to be so many conflicting (or inconsistent) reports in the media, it's hard to know what to believe.
For example:
This article states Laura Beaucroft joined the investigation in September.
Doubt over Tyrrell foster mum's car claims
This one has the FF stating he last saw William at 10:15am or I could be interpreting it wrong and he could be speaking on behalf of FM. But FM states that she took three photos that morming, while someone disclosed the inquest revealed five in total were taken that morning.
IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure
However it does answer a lot of questions people have posed over the past few weeks - about when she checked cupboards etc., amongst a lot of other stuff.

Then while I don't usually read the Daily Mail it also contains information that the father continued to search for four days. Idk what to say about any of it other than it feels like a lot of information gets lost in translation as well.
It's all strange as unlike CS it wasn't quite a public location yet it didn't occur from their place of residence either.

This is from your link TessiV, (Thanks) and relates to a question of the past few days ......

The inquest was told a local resident reported seeing two cars - one with a boy in the back seat wearing a Spider-Man costume - driving away from the area William was last seen.

Det Sgt Beacroft told the inquest she didn't believe Ronald Chapman had made up what he'd seen from outside his Laurel Street home the morning of September 12.

Neither car has been identified during the investigation, the inquest was told.
Doubt over Tyrrell foster mum's car claims | Port Macquarie News | Port Macquarie, NSW (portnews.com.au)


And I was just reading another old article .....and noticed this .....

Most recently, investigators zeroed in on CCTV footage from the local tennis club, which captured images of cars driving towards Benaroon Drive, where William went missing.

Police set up at the Kendall Tennis Club for the day last month with all CCTV images of cars from the morning William went missing, urging all drivers to come forward and identify their vehicles.
William Tyrell’s disappearance from Kendall now a homicide investigation | Daily Telegraph

So, if this information is correct????, then IMO, the CCTV info was not that useful, except to capture FF's return trip to Benaroon Drive....

Agree with your comment about so much conflicting information!
imo

 

[nightrider17]

Also there is the injury to the FFC's hand.


Oddly the latest domestic violence incident involving Deakin University lecturer allegedly killing his partner - he has a injury to his hand.

I think GBC also had injury to his face.

Could just be coincidence of course and unrelated.

 

[SLouTh]

“Former top William Tyrrell cop Gary Jubelin has been grilled by a judge over his use of disproved historical sexual assault charges to wrongly target a washing machine repairman in the missing toddler case.

Mr Jubelin spent Tuesday in the witness box of the NSW Supreme Court being questioned by lawyers for Bill Spedding.

Mr Jubelin repeatedly said 'I can't recall' in response to questions about using the child sex allegations thrown out of court years before to gain leverage over Mr Spedding as a potential William Tyrrell suspect.”

Ex-William Tyrrell cop Gary Jubelin grilled in witness box | Daily Mail Online

But GJ did say this ....

Asked by Mr Spedding’s barrister Adrian Canceri if the historical sexual assault allegations had “essentially destroyed him”, Mr Jubelin said: “I agree, it’s had a dramatic impact on him.”

“Afterwards he was seen as a paedophile,” Mr Canceri said.

“I think that’s fair comment, the amount of media attention on it,” Mr Jubelin said.
Bill Spedding: Ex-Tyrrell top cop denies manufacturing sex assault allegations | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

I suspect this case is going to be very costly to the NSW Government, in the favor of BS ....

 

[SLouTh]

The slip up moment, is the the FFC goes to MFC on arrival in his vehicle "Is William With You?" However in the MFC walk through video he says he comes out of the carport to see both FFC and FGM still sitting on the back deck.

All 3 of them couldn't get their story straight it should've been an immediate red flag.

I am totally open to looking at all sides of this case ......

I have listened to this multiple times and I can only hear one "beep" which I take to mean the FGM sitting on the back deck ........ as FM met FF on his arrival and asked "Is William with you?" so would have been showing FF where William was last seen... imo

Re the BBM
I just don't think it's that simple???..... imo

Or can anyone hear two "beeps"????

 

[SouthAussie]

But GJ did say this ....

Asked by Mr Spedding’s barrister Adrian Canceri if the historical sexual assault allegations had “essentially destroyed him”, Mr Jubelin said: “I agree, it’s had a dramatic impact on him.”

“Afterwards he was seen as a paedophile,” Mr Canceri said.

“I think that’s fair comment, the amount of media attention on it,” Mr Jubelin said.
Bill Spedding: Ex-Tyrrell top cop denies manufacturing sex assault allegations | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

I suspect this case is going to be very costly to the NSW Government, in the favor of BS ....

Yes, I don't think NSWPOL can count on Jubes to do much for their case. He doesn't owe them anything.

He wasn't in favour of the media coverage of BS' arrest. Was angry about the leak.

I guess it is going to be up to the judge to decide if the laws say that BS' arrest and charges were done maliciously, or if they were done because of the tip and in the due course of justice renewed.

 

[SouthAussie]

“Former top William Tyrrell cop Gary Jubelin has been grilled by a judge over his use of disproved historical sexual assault charges to wrongly target a washing machine repairman in the missing toddler case.

Mr Jubelin spent Tuesday in the witness box of the NSW Supreme Court being questioned by lawyers for Bill Spedding.

Mr Jubelin repeatedly said 'I can't recall' in response to questions about using the child sex allegations thrown out of court years before to gain leverage over Mr Spedding as a potential William Tyrrell suspect.”

Ex-William Tyrrell cop Gary Jubelin grilled in witness box | Daily Mail Online

I have now read 6 articles about Jubes' testimony. News.com, Herald Sun, SMH, perthnow.com, DM, The Australian.

Interesting that the only one that mentions the "I can't recall" answers is the DM. (Just an observation.)
Those answers having been given about the case 35 years ago.

I do notice that Jubes was asked (by the judge) that if the prosecution of BS was under his control, if he would have ceased the prosecution once some conflicting evidence was discovered.
Jubes said “The weight that could be placed on that particular witness, and how that would impact on it, yes, it’s fair to say”. (as per this Australian link)

Former William Tyrrell top cop Gary Jubelin enters witness box

 

[Serenanicole]

Yes, I think it was more than 5 mins also. I think most of us think that.

Many people are not so good at estimating time. I think I would be pretty bad at it, myself. I don't think I could 100% be sure (if it was me) if 10 mins had passed, or 15 mins had passed. I would just know that it didn't seem very long. Unless I had a particular reason to be watching the clock.

Yes and time works in peculiar ways when we are stressed

 

[interested64]

Or not a lot of random cars at all and people created memories due to the power of suggestion, especially given others were adamant there were no cars in the street that were claimed were seen. The only car I am confident was there is the one that did a U-Turn that morning. The description of it I am not confident about, but this appears corroborated by more than one person - the Crabbs also said they heard a car turning around.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/fa357f08340e6b3bda5f5c86c48f2eac

I have always wondered about this..did this car get found ? did that person park and return after seeing the children

 

[JLZ]

Or not a lot of random cars at all and people created memories due to the power of suggestion, especially given others were adamant there were no cars in the street that were claimed were seen. The only car I am confident was there is the one that did a U-Turn that morning. The description of it I am not confident about, but this appears corroborated by more than one person - the Crabbs also said they heard a car turning around.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/fa357f08340e6b3bda5f5c86c48f2eac

The question is whether those two mentions of a car turning around up there are independent, or did the Crabbs hear about FFC's sighting and then remember what they heard, or did FFC hear about the car the Crabbs heard and then report the car she and L saw? (And did L tell police about that car, and if so when?)

 

[nightrider17]

Neighbour Anne-Maree Shipley was “adamant” there were no white or grey cars in the street that morning, as sighted by the foster mother between 7am and 7.30am, and possibly until just before 9am.

“Anne-Maree Shipley was very convinced the cars were not there that morning,” Detective Beacroft said. William Tyrrell inquest: Ronald Chapman saw child in Spider-Man suit | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

If you could not recall seeing a car on your street - what would make you "adamant" or "convinced"??

If someone mentions seeing a car in my street - I personally could not say I was adamant not seeing it - unless I was someone who usually took note of these things (being hyper vigilant - e.g- so as not to hit maybe a small child playing in street if you know that children regularly play on the street). If I take my dog for a walk and it stops and sniffs each car.

I'm just saying if someone in the street said they saw a car and I didn't then I am not sure I could say with any certainty it wasn't there unless I had for a particular reason been overly observant.