Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[Kemug]

Although - related to this case - I feel pretty sure that there are some/many residents of Kendall who would like to know the names of the rest of the 20 pedos living in their area who remain unnamed to the public. I think the only ones that they are now aware of are DN, TJ, PB and FA.

I have family in Houston, Texas, and have heard from them that when they moved into a new home, they looked up where any pedophiles might be in the neighbourhood. So Houston (at least) has a database that the public can access.

 

[JLZ]

In fact, FGM says she didn't even see FD at all before he left that morning. So if she got up at 7:30am, where was he then, and when did he leave exactly, that she didn't even see him, and where did he go so early? And he didn't arrive back until 10:35am.. which gives at least 3 hours of time gone from the house using that timeframe, and is that time accounted for? Did FD leave just the once, or was it twice? (Or more?) Why does Overington report that it was confirmed through phone tracking that he left the house at 9:30am?

(snipped & BBM)--Does FGM say that? I thought she'd said he'd been asking about what time the pharmacy opened, with a view to possibly going there before his conference. I suppose that might have been a conversation the night before. But I don't see why MFC couldn't have been in his own room using his laptop most of while the others were having breakfast.

 

[InFocus]

Where’s your proof the time isn’t 9.39am? The SFR‘s last search and the ‘critical time frame‘ was the 96 minutes before the police arrived on the scene, the 9.39am was accepted by investigators after forensics had examined the camera because why bother with the 96 minutes?

If this video is crucial to solving William’s disappearance, ultimately, to bring the FPs to justice, why was it handed over to the DM, and then, uploaded, unedited, on the internet, to be scrutinised to the nth degree by the public?
This vital missing piece of the puzzle, the muddled headed 80 year old woman’s attempt at assisting the police, the SFR team just let it go? It’s not as if she can be interviewed again.
She was so sure and not sure about everything, it was 6 days after, it might as well have been years, she struggled with her memory, even denying a call which for a fact, took place.
The police would have interviewed her away from the cameras, we don’t have access to those conversations, but this video is the key?

It’s interesting how allowances are made for men in their 60s and 70s in this case and others, but a grieving, recently widowed woman of 80, whose mental state we have no knowledge about, is mercilessly picked apart. What is she guilty of?

JMO

In his opening address, Gerard Craddock SC said the photograph was taken at 9:37 am on the day in question, saying “that is a time of which we can be certain”. We then learned that "certainty" was actually inaccurate.

If not for defence counsel bringing to the attention of Coroner Harriet Grahame we may never have known about the adjustment. Clearly, the initial taskforce knew about the adjusted times, it wasn't simply an oversight by counsel at the inquest.

The original time stamps are not favorable to the whole abduction story. Without the 'corrected' time there's no abduction theory is there? 7:37 am places all parties still present at the house, 9:37 am removes the MFC from the picture, pardon the pun.
Why is it, that the first press release by police on the afternoon of September 12th was an outdated daycare photo used? Surely in most cases of missing persons, the police would want to use the last known image (what they were wearing etc). in case a member of the public recalled seeing a young child fitting that description.

I put it to you there was a very good reason that the spiderman photo was not used that afternoon because the metadata showed 7:37am - 7:39am.

Whilst on the subject of the deck photos, I draw your attention to photo DSC01103 7:37:29 am (the 2nd photo of 5). William's right hand shows motion blur. Motion blur is caused when the shutter speed is slower, this occurs often in low light situations. Light at 7:37am, is never going to be brighter than light at 9:37am
Why 9:37am is favourable to the abduction theory is because the MFC is not there. However, in the famous 'roar' image DSCO1106 William is clearly looking up at someone behind taking the image. It's nearly impossible to replicate that image (of a 3yr looking up) with just 1 person taking the photo. The FFC tries to make the point that she took the photo at awkward angle. I put it to you that she was at ground level the same as William was.

What is not in dispute, is whatever happened to William, occurs after these images were taken be it 7:39am or 9:37am.
Much was also made of a mystery (boogie) person asking for directions at the general store to Benaroon Drive, that this could be the perpetrator. Isn't it the case that this is the same general store that the MFC picked up the 2 newspapers from? What's to say that the MFC lost his sense of direction having not been at Kendall for several months (having arrived the night before) and that it was him asking for directions? Was there a description of the make and colour of the car that this mystery person was driving? Did it match with MFC, or not? Kind of ironic don't you think that this mystery person and the MFC both went to the same store. Media seemed to have run with that boogie man scenario to fit into the abduction narrative.

<modsnip - no link from an approved source to statement made as fact>

Why did Mr Jubelin raise the possibility of Mr Savage's wife running over William? Why was being "run over" as a scenario plausible for Savage but not for the carers? Proximity wise there would've been a higher chance of being run over at 48 Benaroon Dr than outside the Savages.

The FFGM video simply highlights inconsistencies, so close after the actual incident, merely 6 days. Much about this whole case has many many inconsistencies. Surely you can't use the "grieving widow" as an excuse, I mean didn't her husband pass away in Feb/March? Wasn't she still highly respected in her local community, it seems that she was still quite an intelligent woman.

At the end of the day, justice for William is 100% the objective. I feel the current task force will ultimately achieve its objective.

 

[SouthAussie]

Why did Mr Jubelin raise the possibility of Mr Savage's wife running over William? Why was being "run over" as a scenario plausible for Savage but not for the carers? Proximity wise there would've been a higher chance of being run over at 48 Benaroon Dr than outside the Savages.

FD was definitely asked about it in his police interview ... when Jubes grilled him for a few hours. It was one of the more than 727 questions FD answered that day.

William Tyrrell podcast: foster father was asked if he’d run over boy in driveway

There is no "narrative". There is a little boy missing and hundreds of people have searched for him over an 8 year span - using every technique available to them. So far, nobody has found William or any evidence of his demise.

<modsnip>

If the answer was so easy, we wouldn't be sitting here 8 years later, still wondering what the heck happened to William.
.

 

[deugirtni]

(snipped & BBM)--Does FGM say that? I thought she'd said he'd been asking about what time the pharmacy opened, with a view to possibly going there before his conference. I suppose that might have been a conversation the night before. But I don't see why MFC couldn't have been in his own room using his laptop most of while the others were having breakfast.

"In fact, FGM says she didn't even see FD at all before he left that morning."

Yes she does, at least twice.

 

[InFocus]

FD was definitely asked about it in his police interview ... when Jubes grilled him for a few hours. It was one of the more than 727 questions FD answered that day.

William Tyrrell podcast: foster father was asked if he’d run over boy in driveway

There is no "narrative". There is a little boy missing and hundreds of people have searched for him over an 8 year span - using every technique available to them. So far, nobody has found William or any evidence of his demise.

Yet, somehow, many amateurs are convinced that they know the answer. Creating their own narrative. imo

If the answer was so easy, we wouldn't be sitting here 8 years later, still wondering what the heck happened to William.
.

<modsnip - address the post, not the poster>

The task force changed leadership and different theories/scenarios appear to have been considered (looked at more closely) given that FMC was now considered a POI. FMC was not a POI under the leadership of Mr. Jubelin.

Mr Jubelin only interviewed the MFC September 2016 with those 727 questions, was the MFC asked in the years earlier about that run-over scenario? I accept from the link you provided that MFC was asked about a run-over scenario in 2016, thanks for clarifying it.

Perhaps I'll ask yourself, why do you think the older daycare photo was used to inform the public of what William looked like. Would you agree those vital afternoon hours of September 12th the spiderman photo would've been a better choice? I realise it was shown the next day.

 

[Chrissy74]

I don't think we have to guess what they allegedly lied about at the Crime Commission hearing.

While the hearing may have been about William's case, apparently the 'lying' was about the alleged assault .... which presumably must have been brought up at the Crime Commission hearing.


" .... knowingly giving false or misleading evidence to the New South Wales Crime Commission. That evidence involved answers to questions denying the assault which was the subject of the charge laid against her in the Local Court."

From the Supreme Court Caselaw:
Caselaw Nationwide News VS ....

Sadly I think you might be right STH Aussie. It’s a double edged sword really. W is a part of our every day lives. People genuinely care for this beautiful lil boy. W will always have a place in my heart and I’ll never give up on W.. NEVER..

 

[SouthAussie]

Perhaps I'll ask yourself, why do you think the older daycare photo was used to inform the public of what William looked like. Would you agree those vital afternoon hours of September 12th the spiderman photo would've been a better choice? I realise it was shown the next day.

I will have to try to find it again, but there is some information about what happened that day with FACS involvement. I think it is in CO's book.

(This is from memory) FACS were notified quite quickly and I think by 1pm a FACS person (maybe her name was Judy? she is named in the piece about FACS initial involvement) had authorised the release of that photo. She also tamped down on the FP doing a public appeal, but authorised their good friends to do an appeal for them.

I don't know why she chose that photo. Maybe no-one thought about the photos they took that morning at that point in time. Maybe FACS had that childcare photo in their possession.

imo
(I will look for the source of this info and add the reference)

 

[PrimeSuspect]

In his opening address, Gerard Craddock SC said the photograph was taken at 9:37 am on the day in question, saying “that is a time of which we can be certain”. We then learned that "certainty" was actually inaccurate.

If not for defence counsel bringing to the attention of Coroner Harriet Grahame we may never have known about the adjustment. Clearly, the initial taskforce knew about the adjusted times, it wasn't simply an oversight by counsel at the inquest.

The original time stamps are not favorable to the whole abduction story. Without the 'corrected' time there's no abduction theory is there? 7:37 am places all parties still present at the house, 9:37 am removes the MFC from the picture, pardon the pun.
Why is it, that the first press release by police on the afternoon of September 12th was an outdated daycare photo used? Surely in most cases of missing persons, the police would want to use the last known image (what they were wearing etc). in case a member of the public recalled seeing a young child fitting that description.

I put it to you there was a very good reason that the spiderman photo was not used that afternoon because the metadata showed 7:37am - 7:39am.

Whilst on the subject of the deck photos, I draw your attention to photo DSC01103 7:37:29 am (the 2nd photo of 5). William's right hand shows motion blur. Motion blur is caused when the shutter speed is slower, this occurs often in low light situations. Light at 7:37am, is never going to be brighter than light at 9:37am
Why 9:37am is favourable to the abduction theory is because the MFC is not there. However, in the famous 'roar' image DSCO1106 William is clearly looking up at someone behind taking the image. It's nearly impossible to replicate that image (of a 3yr looking up) with just 1 person taking the photo. The FFC tries to make the point that she took the photo at awkward angle. I put it to you that she was at ground level the same as William was.

What is not in dispute, is whatever happened to William, occurs after these images were taken be it 7:39am or 9:37am.
Much was also made of a mystery (boogie) person asking for directions at the general store to Benaroon Drive, that this could be the perpetrator. Isn't it the case that this is the same general store that the MFC picked up the 2 newspapers from? What's to say that the MFC lost his sense of direction having not been at Kendall for several months (having arrived the night before) and that it was him asking for directions? Was there a description of the make and colour of the car that this mystery person was driving? Did it match with MFC, or not? Kind of ironic don't you think that this mystery person and the MFC both went to the same store. Media seemed to have run with that boogie man scenario to fit into the abduction narrative.

<modsnip - no link from an approved source to statement made as fact>

Why did Mr Jubelin raise the possibility of Mr Savage's wife running over William? Why was being "run over" as a scenario plausible for Savage but not for the carers? Proximity wise there would've been a higher chance of being run over at 48 Benaroon Dr than outside the Savages.

The FFGM video simply highlights inconsistencies, so close after the actual incident, merely 6 days. Much about this whole case has many many inconsistencies. Surely you can't use the "grieving widow" as an excuse, I mean didn't her husband pass away in Feb/March? Wasn't she still highly respected in her local community, it seems that she was still quite an intelligent woman.

At the end of the day, justice for William is 100% the objective. I feel the current task force will ultimately achieve its objective.

There are a lot of assumptions made in your post and I haven't the time to go through each one tonight but I'll quickly answer what I can.

The 9.37 am photo had to be verified to the satisfaction of the coroner and once it was, SFR could go ahead with the theory an accident happened after 9.37am and the body disposed of somewhere close. The team searched near and far, and had cars forensically tested, the theory either still stands or was put to rest. I assume when the inquest resumes, the findings will be reported, but 9.37 am is the accepted time.

The FGM lived in Kendall for 23 years, her property was sold at the time of William's disappearance and time doesn't stand still for no one. Why is she expected to be the same woman as she once was? She'd lost her husband and her fgc disappeared from her own property and she was 81 years old!
We're not privy to her medical records but I'm pretty sure the police and the coroner would be.

JMO

 

[InFocus]

Just following on from my previous post about mentioning other scenarios, theories
Lia Harris is quoted in this article saying:

“To me, it signalled that they had either taken a new direction or they had a new theory they were working on.”

So it is quite reasonable for us as "amateurs" to raise other possible scenarios etc. in light of new leadership. Lia is obviously a respected journalist.

Prime suspect: Why police say they are 'confident' of cracking William Tyrrell case - InQueensland

 

[SLouTh]

Why is it, that the first press release by police on the afternoon of September 12th was an outdated daycare photo used?

IIRC it was because FACS released that photo …. And it was the “most recent photograph” that FACS had of William at that time..

When Michelle White (Young Hope) arrived in Kendall, one of her first “tasks” was to provide Police with a more up to date photo of William …

From Overington’s book Missing William Tyrrell
Chapter 4 Page 50

 

[SLouTh]

Perhaps I'll ask yourself, why do you think the older daycare photo was used to inform the public of what William looked like. Would you agree those vital afternoon hours of September 12th the spiderman photo would've been a better choice? I realise it was shown the next day.

FACS had a stranglehold over the investigation in the early days … and they were the ones pulling all the strings …. I believe that Police also had to be held accountable to FACS Policy and Procedure, because William was a Foster Child … and that made the initial investigation more difficult for Police …

IMO

 

[Warshawski]

I’m just going to throw out my thoughts on this mysterious & horrible situation, where a little boy suddenly disappears / the challenges we each have in our dealings with same..

In my thoughts are those who may be personally impacted on any number of levels, by this occurrence.

My thoughts also are with all the good & concerned people who want the best outcome, whatever that truth may be.

it was those thoughts that drove me to join this group, all those years ago. .. a common cause to me suggested Unity & Respect in our opinions & in our expression of same.

that our unity & respect is at the forefront as we choose our words.


and many for guidance in the search for answers for WilLiam.

 

[SouthAussie]

IIRC it was because FACS released that photo …. And it was the “most recent photograph” that FACS had of William at that time..

When Michelle White (Young Hope) arrived in Kendall, one of her first “tasks” was to provide Police with a more up to date photo of William …

From Overington’s book Missing William Tyrrell
Chapter 4 Page 50

Thanks for finding the source, slouth.

The name Michelle sounds a lot like the name 'Judy' (as I had thought). hahaha

 

[Kemug]

There is a lot of confusion about events and times on the morning that William disappeared. Is that genuine, or did a person or persons deliberately try to muddy the waters, do you think?

 

[InFocus]

The 9.37 am photo had to be verified to the satisfaction of the coroner

I suggest that the coroner had no prior knowledge that the metadata had been adjusted.

At no time during the inquest does Gerard Craddock SC preface the coroner/inquest by stating we have evidence of photos being created 7:37-39 am however then being corrected/adjusted to 9:37 am etc. He confidently opened his address by using 9:37 am proof of life.

Why was that vital fact (the adjustment) withheld by Craddock?

The coroner immediately ordered an investigation into this matter (time adjustment) once raised by defence counsel and to this day has not been resolved. So the photo/s clearly have not been verified satisfactorily by the coroner to date.

Since time is so central to this case, why is it that the public was told for years, that William disappeared on or around 10:30am?

The 2015 police video interview that was made public had the MFC saying 10:15 am was the last time William was seen and FFC can clearly be heard whispering no no that's not correct. <modsnip: No approved source for this information stated as fact>

There's been a significant momentum shift in the case since the change of leadership to Mr. Laidlaw.

I do find it very interesting that since being in the role, Laidlaw has never renewed public assistance about the alleged 2 cars parked in the street, which the FFC claims. If those 2 cars did exist they should've been made public immediately in September 2014, so that the public could've been on the lookout. I suggest, they never existed and the evidence shows in 2022 that there is no evidence.

 

[SouthAussie]

I do find it very interesting that since being in the role, Laidlaw has never renewed public assistance about the alleged 2 cars parked in the street, which the FFC claims.

I think that is probably a bit of a broad leap. Laidlaw hasn't renewed requests for ANY public assistance, has he?
He barely speaks about the case.

imo

But I do agree that Laidlaw's pet theory seems to be FM. Publicly emerging around July 2021 (2 years and 7 months after he took over the case) when he went on Sky News and said he thought he had an idea about who was responsible.

Since then I don't think he has said anything? David Elliot and other senior officials did all the talking in Nov/Dec 2021.

I am in no way criticising Laidlaw. He runs William's case, as well as several others. Has come up through the ranks. I think he is a good cop, like the other lead detectives before him.

 

[InFocus]

I think that is probably a bit of a broad leap. Laidlaw hasn't renewed requests for ANY public assistance, has he?
He barely speaks about the case.

imo

But I do agree that Laidlaw's pet theory seems to be FM. Publicly emerging around July 2021 (2 years and 7 months after he took over the case) when he went on Sky News and said he thought he had an idea about who was responsible.

Since then I don't think he has said anything? David Elliot and other senior officials did all the talking in Nov/Dec 2021.

I am in no way criticising Laidlaw. He runs William's case, as well as several others. Has come up through the ranks. I think he is a good cop, like the other lead detectives before him.

Perhaps Mr Laidlaw is a little more reserved publicly than Mr. Jubelin was. Mr Jubelin often fronted the media, we've hardly seen Mr. Laidlaw. Maybe he has decided to be more of a closed book in his approach to the case.
Both Detectives have had a long career in the force, and appear (to the public) to run their ship very differently to each other.

 

[SouthAussie]

Perhaps Mr Laidlaw is a little more reserved publicly than Mr. Jubelin was. Mr Jubelin often fronted the media, we've hardly seen Mr. Laidlaw. Maybe he has decided to be more of a closed book in his approach to the case.
Both Detectives have had a long career in the force, and appear (to the public) to run their ship very differently to each other.

Exactly. Rupp, Jubelin, Laidlaw all have their own ways.

My point was, I don't think we can say "well Laidlaw hasn't said anything about this or that". He hasn't said anything about anything very much. As seems to be his own style in this case.

For all we know, he might have wished that the top boys didn't go quite so public in Nov/Dec 2021 ... in the same way that Jubes had wished that Rupp didn't go quite so public with the searches of Spedding's properties.

In a radio interview, Jubes said Laidlaw is a good cop. And all that he (Jubes) knows about the case is from prior to January 2019.

 

[InFocus]

Further to the coroner, it was on her orders that:

All the podcasts and file notes are handed over;
The second forensic audit of the photos ;
The release of any witness statements to the media;
The standing down of most all other witnesses has been at the approval and her satisfaction.

SLouTh recently replied to my question about why the old daycare photo was used, that FACs had to approve it.

FACs have clearly been running the show. Both their department and the police ultimately answer to a government minister. Has the government influenced the direction/misdirection over almost 8 years, only time will tell?