Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[stormbird]

Thanks to War’s reply earlier ...
I wonder if they closed the court after the questionnaire to discuss any POI Profiles that Laura Beaucroft - May have put together ??

"She then heard evidence from Det Sgt Laura Beacroft, who was with the Child Abuse and Sex Crimes Squad, before being seconded to the William Tyrrell case in late 2015, to set up a Person of Interest profile"
From here
Child In Spiderman Suit Seen In Car The Day William Disappeared

This is purely speculation on my part ... just a thought....

From the link posted by @SLouTh:

"[Det Sgt Beacroft] “There was a full re-canvass of the township of Kendall to ensure we had captured movements of everybody, not just residents.”

Police issued an extremely detailed survey to everyone in the town, including questions on who was present in their homes between 9.30am and 10.30am on the day William went missing, what clubs or groups they were involved in, what vehicles they owned or used.

And importantly, when and how they became aware William Tyrrell went missing." BBM

- "Child in Spiderman suit seen in car same day William disappeared", 10 Daily, 19 August 2019

Why is it important for police to know when and how people became aware William went missing? Obviously, William and the offender(s) would have been the first people to know, and without being told. But, unless the offender(s) then started spreading the news and police can track back to them through word-of-mouth links or something, I don't understand why the question is said to be important. Does anybody know?

 

[Wexford]

From the link posted by @SLouTh:

"[Det Sgt Beacroft] “There was a full re-canvass of the township of Kendall to ensure we had captured movements of everybody, not just residents.”

Police issued an extremely detailed survey to everyone in the town, including questions on who was present in their homes between 9.30am and 10.30am on the day William went missing, what clubs or groups they were involved in, what vehicles they owned or used.

And importantly, when and how they became aware William Tyrrell went missing." BBM

- "Child in Spiderman suit seen in car same day William disappeared", 10 Daily, 19 August 2019

Why is it important for police to know when and how people became aware William went missing? Obviously, William and the offender(s) would have been the first people to know, and without being told. But, unless the offender(s) then started spreading the news and police can track back to them through word-of-mouth links or something, I don't understand why the question is said to be important. Does anybody know?

I'm guessing but a good question would be, did you hear it on some form of media or did someone knock on your door. If so who and when? Was it police or SES or a neighbour? This may all go towards honing down the actual timing of him being missing (as that still seems to be in question to a degree) or it could be that they are suspicious of someone involved in the search. I know from experience when a local child goes missing the grapevine operates very fast especially with social media but perhaps in someone's case, it was a little too quick??

 

[Wexford]

Yes surely... one would hope.. as we were saying he was a busy man! Working on the NBN at caltex and assisting the SES search...

Maybe they are working on more in this respect.

Burning the candle at both ends?

 

[Ms Kite]

From the link posted by @SLouTh:

"[Det Sgt Beacroft] “There was a full re-canvass of the township of Kendall to ensure we had captured movements of everybody, not just residents.”

Police issued an extremely detailed survey to everyone in the town, including questions on who was present in their homes between 9.30am and 10.30am on the day William went missing, what clubs or groups they were involved in, what vehicles they owned or used.

And importantly, when and how they became aware William Tyrrell went missing." BBM

- "Child in Spiderman suit seen in car same day William disappeared", 10 Daily, 19 August 2019

Why is it important for police to know when and how people became aware William went missing? Obviously, William and the offender(s) would have been the first people to know, and without being told. But, unless the offender(s) then started spreading the news and police can track back to them through word-of-mouth links or something, I don't understand why the question is said to be important. Does anybody know?

To generate a timeline and possibly narrow down the window where William disappeared? Asking how they found out might help to generate a picture of information flow (and may also show up inconsistencies in people's stories).

JMO

 

[Wexford]

On the topic of closing courts, there is always a tension between the parties, who want the court closed as much as possible, and the media who want access. The principle of “justice must be seen to be done” applies in Australia, so courts want to limit suppression orders and court closures.

I don’t know where the line is drawn between suppression and closure. Every time a party wants information suppressed, there is an application by the party and the judge makes a ruling. If a party makes an application for court closure, then the judge would have to consider whether a suppression order would suffice. Court closure is a pretty drastic step.

There are some cases, varying amongst the states, where there is always a court closure without an application for it. Such as when a person applies for an AVO, or when a victim of a sex offence is giving evidence.

Maybe someone who was at the inquest could tell us who made the application for the court to be closed. I assume it was either the Police it PS lawyer.

Sorry Cleaver Greene, more questions if you don't mind?
Is it possible that applications were made for witnesses beforehand? For example someone who it is believed will only speak if they are certain that someone else will not hear what they say or perhaps not even know who they are? Perhaps in the case of someone who is very afraid of giving evidence about someone they know for fear of their life or that of their family?
Also, just out of interest, we know there were a couple of people on the witness list who appeared under false names. How well can the court actually protect them from anyone knowing who they are? How likely are you to bump into someone that knows you or a journalist in a court situation?

 

[SouthAussie]

And importantly, when and how they became aware William Tyrrell went missing." BBM

- "Child in Spiderman suit seen in car same day William disappeared", 10 Daily, 19 August 2019

Why is it important for police to know when and how people became aware William went missing? Obviously, William and the offender(s) would have been the first people to know, and without being told. But, unless the offender(s) then started spreading the news and police can track back to them through word-of-mouth links or something, I don't understand why the question is said to be important. Does anybody know?

Possibly matching up stories.

Eg: Someone told their wife/son/workmate/pub friend a child was missing from Kendall but it was impossible for that person to know yet, according to their alibi.

 

[Wexford]

Possibly matching up stories.

Eg: Someone told their wife/son/workmate/pub friend a child was missing from Kendall but it was impossible for that person to know yet, according to their alibi.

yes something like 'sorry I can't come in for my shift, I'm helping look for a lost child' maybe??

 

[SLouTh]

I'm guessing but a good question would be, did you hear it on some form of media or did someone knock on your door. If so who and when? Was it police or SES or a neighbour? This may all go towards honing down the actual timing of him being missing (as that still seems to be in question to a degree) or it could be that they are suspicious of someone involved in the search. I know from experience when a local child goes missing the grapevine operates very fast especially with social media but perhaps in someone's case, it was a little too quick??

This is good thinking @Wexford ...
Also in small rural towns the old fashioned telephone grapevine works extremely well and fast... I have witnessed this firsthand when someone prominent in town died.... I was astonished who knew and how fast!!!

I do however wish the police had done something like this earlier in the investigation when things were perhaps more fresh in people’s minds ...
JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

yes something like 'sorry I can't come in for my shift, I'm helping look for a lost child' maybe??

"See you later. Have fun at bingo. I probably wont go to Casino, may stay back and help look for a little boy who has wandered, just heard it on the radio/from a neighbour."

Did Heather tell people at bingo that a little boy was missing before the word was really out there yet?

 

[JLZ]

This is good thinking @Wexford ...
Also in small rural towns the old fashioned telephone grapevine works extremely well and fast... I have witnessed this firsthand when someone prominent in town died.... I was astonished who knew and how fast!!!

I do however wish the police had done something like this earlier in the investigation when things were perhaps more fresh in people’s minds ...
JMO

When was the recanvassing questionnaire? (I understand from the article Stormbird linked that Beacroft joined the investigation in late 2015.)

 

[SLouTh]

When was the recanvassing questionnaire? (I understand from the article Stormbird linked that Beacroft joined the investigation in late 2015.)

Yes the tweet from LHarris at the inquest said it was 2015... (posted a few pages back) and if
L Beaucroft was part of this .. which it appears ..... then late 2015 is still a year after the terrible event occurred...

Maybe if there is a local here on the thread they could tell us more about the questionnaire?? And when it was done??

 

[SouthAussie]

Is this how Laura Beacroft formed her personal opinion of the 'closer to 10:05am' timeslot for the abduction of William?


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.
'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

 

[SouthAussie]

From the link posted by @SLouTh:

"[Det Sgt Beacroft] “There was a full re-canvass of the township of Kendall to ensure we had captured movements of everybody, not just residents.”

Police issued an extremely detailed survey to everyone in the town, including questions on who was present in their homes between 9.30am and 10.30am on the day William went missing, what clubs or groups they were involved in, what vehicles they owned or used.

And importantly, when and how they became aware William Tyrrell went missing." BBM

- "Child in Spiderman suit seen in car same day William disappeared", 10 Daily, 19 August 2019

Why is it important for police to know when and how people became aware William went missing? Obviously, William and the offender(s) would have been the first people to know, and without being told. But, unless the offender(s) then started spreading the news and police can track back to them through word-of-mouth links or something, I don't understand why the question is said to be important. Does anybody know?

.
Also asked in the questionnaire - "and whether they, or others in their home, helped in the search ...."
'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

 

[sosocurious]

When was the recanvassing questionnaire? (I understand from the article Stormbird linked that Beacroft joined the investigation in late 2015.)

Detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft - who joined the investigation in September 2015
https://www.smh.com.au/national/imp...n-tyrrell-case-condemned-20190820-p52ium.html

Now almost 12 months on, the 12-person strike force is revisiting square one.
In the past few weeks detectives have returned to the scene of William's abduction to talk with Kendall residents and canvass the area again.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-false-hope-12-months-on-20150903-gjenjz.html

 

[SLouTh]

Is this how Laura Beacroft formed her personal opinion of the 'closer to 10:05am' timeslot for the abduction of William?


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.
'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

Yes SA ... quite possible....

I personally don’t think a Detective would be so specific with times, at an inquest, unless there was solid evidence to back it up .. JMO

Perhaps there were two cars that turned around in the dead end street that day???

I think I have always assumed the car heard by the Crabbs was the same car that was eyeballed by the FM ..... but possibly it wasn’t ???
In this baffling case any thing is possible IMO ..

 

[sosocurious]

.
Also asked in the questionnaire - "and whether they, or others in their home, helped in the search ...."
'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

When did KC say AJ said he was going to fuel up the car and join the search?
Which car?
I guess I am wondering how that household heard William was missing.

 

[sosocurious]

Yes SA ... quite possible....

Perhaps there were two cars that turned around in the dead end street that day???

I think I have always assumed the car heard by the Crabbs was the same car that was eyeballed by the FM ..... but possibly it wasn’t ???
In this baffling case any thing is possible IMO ..

The car the ffc saw when the kids were riding bikes? Before 10:00am. Were the Crabbe's still on their morning walk at North Haven when the kids were riding bikes?

 

[SouthAussie]

The car the ffc saw when the kids were riding bikes? Before 10:00am. Were the Crabbe's still on their morning walk at North Haven when the kids were riding bikes?

Must be two cars that went up the street and turned around. One at 9am and one at 10:05am - a green/greyish car at 9am, and a 4WD (?) at 10:05am.

There was also another vehicle described as a dark green/greyish coloured sedan police are interested in.
The vehicle drove past Benaroon Drive as William was riding his bike on the driveway around 9am and performed a u-turn.
William Tyrrell: Police seek information on two cars | audio, video


The other vehicle in question is a four-wheel-drive that is said to have exited Benaroon Drive around the time William disappeared.
William Tyrrell: Police seek information on two cars | audio, video


Peter and Sharelle Crabb, who lived at 51 Benaroon Drive at the time, heard the sound of a vehicle turning and driving away.
The Crabbs were on their veranda at the back of the house, but Mr Craddock told the inquest “residents of Benaroon Drive would notice there were cars if there were cars”.

Asked if the street was “very quiet and noise travels”, Sgt Beacroft said Benaroon Drive was “extremely quiet”.
Asked also if she had been “sceptical” abut the Crabbs’ evidence, Sgt Beacroft said she had “done a lot of work with them”, investigating the claim including visiting them at home in June 2016.

It had been a cold day and the windows and doors at 51 Benaroon Drive were closed when Sharelle Crabb said to Sgt Beacroft: “Listen, do you hear anything?”
When Sgt Beacroft did listen, she then “heard the sound of a car coming up Benaroon Drive”, although she hadn’t heard it when Mrs Crabb did “two to three seconds before I did”.
William Tyrrell inquest: Neighbour saw a child wearing a Spider-Man suit

 

[SLouTh]

Is this how Laura Beacroft formed her personal opinion of the 'closer to 10:05am' timeslot for the abduction of William?


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.
'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

Can we discuss this 10:05 time a bit further ?
From the first inquest FFC stated that she had expected MFC home from as early as 10:15hrs ....

As per this article...
William Tyrrell inquest: Foster mum says she wished she saw licence plates

“She told the court that William had been “getting very bored” just before he vanished and they were waiting for his foster father to return from the nearby town of Laurieton.

She had been expecting her husband to return from a visit to the chemist and a telephone conference meeting between 10.15am and 10.30am that morning.

“William’s sister was still drawing,” she said.

“He was getting very bored with the game. He was running up and down.

“I said to William (and his sister) ‘you know what? Why don’t we go down and see if Daddy’s car is here yet’.”

So if she was expecting him home at 10:15 ... it is possible that it was a bit before 10:00 when this occurred ... ?? Possibly thinking it’s only 15-20mins or so, till he will be home ...

And is it also possible that after the first time to check “if Daddy was home yet” that William took it upon himself to check again?

And this is when the tragic opportunity arose? Which could possibly make it as early as 10:05?
And sadly, possibly fit with car that heard at at 10:05hrs...

And that is when all of those incredible pieces of fate collided together... WT, Car, and Abductor seizing an unplanned opportunity??

Previously I have always focused on the just before 10:30 time slot ...

These are just my own thoughts on the matter after going back and reading a few pages of the 1st inquest thread ..

 

[Ms Kite]

yes something like 'sorry I can't come in for my shift, I'm helping look for a lost child' maybe??

Could be related to this:

"The day William went missing, a woman knocked on Mr Savage's door to raise the alarm.

At the time, neighbours told police they heard the foster father screaming out his son's name as he ran around the property in a panic.

But on Thursday Mr Savage told Counsel Assisting Gerard Craddock he heard nothing that morning.

"You didn't hear anyone calling out for William?" Mr Craddock asked.

"No I didn't," Mr Savage replied.

In his police statement, Mr Savage said he saw the foster father "crying and upset", but when asked about it on Thursday, he said "I don't remember that".

Mr Savage also recalled speaking to neighbours about the missing boy despite them not remembering those exchanges, the inquest was told.

He then claimed he began searching for the missing boy."

Key witness changes his story at William Tyrrell inquest