Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[JLZ]

300km north of Kendall is Maclean on the coast road or between Grafton and Casino on the hinterland road. That's still around 170km from Queensland border. Lots of alternative living folks around the hinterland and places to hide a child.

300 in a straight line from Kendall depending on which part of the border. Though the direction would be NNW rather than N.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

300 in a straight line from Kendall depending on which part of the border. Though the direction would be NNW rather than N.

In a helicopter, not a Ford Falcon.

 

[JLZ]

In a helicopter, not a Ford Falcon.

True. But I think the question SA raised was why RP would have said 300km if he hadn't travelled nearly that far. And I'm proposing that he thinks of the border as roughly 300km off. At the time he's saying this, he's in a Port Macquarie nursing home, which might also shorten the notional distance to the border in his mind.

If he'd actually driven 300km with William, I agree it would be more natural for him to frame the distance as by road.

 

[SouthAussie]

I've always felt the cars were at #35. Especially with him being 'nocturnal' and the cars already being there at 7.30am.

Why don't we ever hear anything about the 2nd car?

Another thing.... Elizabeth Rowley described the station wagon slightly differently. FA came into her antique shop 6-8 times in late 2013 to ask her to look at items in a car in which he was a passenger. She described the car as a white FORD station wagon, boxy shape. When asked if she was sure, she said "I know my cars it was a ford." She had also seen him in a white utility.

It's concerning that the Frank Abbott theory might depend on the car FFC described being Ray Porters. I hope there's more.

I don't personally think that Porter's car needed to have been at #35 that morning, for an Abbott theory to apply.

Geoff Owen was in Kendall that morning. He could have dropped Abbott off somewhere close by.

To me, it is not unlikely that Abbott carried William to the school. Abbott was accustomed to walking a lot. And if Porter didn't arrive there till after 3pm, Abbott had a lot of time with William before Porter arrived.

If Abbott did carry William away, it could be why Savage disappeared for 1½ hours to see if he could see where they went/find William.

 

[JLZ]

I would like to know whether Mr Porter knew that FA had been obsessing over William's case before he mentioned taking them for the drive. Was anyone asked about that at the inquest? His family, or the nurse/s?

 

[Loxoli]

I don't personally think that Porter's car needed to have been at #35 that morning, for an Abbott theory to apply.

Geoff Owen was in Kendall that morning. He could have dropped Abbott off somewhere close by.

To me, it is not unlikely that Abbott carried William to the school. Abbott was accustomed to walking a lot. And if Porter didn't arrive there till after 3pm, Abbott had a lot of time with William before Porter arrived.

If Abbott did carry William away, it could be why Savage disappeared for 1½ hours to see if he could see where they went/find William.

The only thing that I can’t reconcile is the part about PS going after the abductor. If PS saw something but was too frightened to tell the police, I don’t think he would have went after them. IMO

 

[Get Smart]

We still dont even know where FA was on that day.. hopefully it comes out in the next inquest.

 

[JLZ]

The only thing that I can’t reconcile is the part about PS going after the abductor. If PS saw something but was too frightened to tell the police, I don’t think he would have went after them. IMO

At that early stage it wasn't a homicide investigation. And PS might not have known anything about Abbott. If there was a confrontation, that could have altered his sense of risk.

 

[Loxoli]

At that early stage it wasn't a homicide investigation. And PS might not have known anything about Abbott. If there was a confrontation, that could have altered his sense of risk.

So what would the reason be for not telling police in this scenario? He obviously had to have cared about William’s safety and wasn’t frightened for his own safety if he went after the abductor(s). Surely telling the police what he saw would have had a better outcome than PS locating and confronting the abductor(s) on his own.

 

[SouthAussie]

We still dont even know where FA was on that day.. hopefully it comes out in the next inquest.

No we don't. My theory is just me trying to piece things together, using things we do know ... that the police are searching all around where Abbott lived and Jubes' focus on getting Savage to talk.

I welcome anyone else's theory. And I understand that theories can change as/if we learn more.

 

[SouthAussie]

So what would the reason be for not telling police in this scenario? He obviously had to have cared about William’s safety and wasn’t frightened for his own safety if he went after the abductor(s). Surely telling the police what he saw would have had a better outcome than PS locating and confronting the abductor(s) on his own.

I don't think Savage would have been trying to save little William as much as he seems to be a nosey person. Likes to know what is going on in the street.

I can visualise him seeing Abbott taking William and then not seeing anything further, because Abbott may have continued down Ellen Drive and cut through the forest that way toward the school. Not thinking that Abbott would have had any particular direction/location in mind, just that was the quickest way to go to get out of view.
I do think this was an opportunistic abduction.

Savage may then have gone up Benaroon Drive to see what he could see. And it seems he could have seen nothing more, despite looking around for 1½ hours, but may have been looking in all the wrong places. Abbott could have been well on his way toward the school at that point.

Savage may be terrified of being accused himself, but he saw something. And knows it is bad because he can't account for that 1½ hours. And he can't account for not telling anyone immediately (a bit like Chapman).

 

[drsleuth]

We don’t have info yet on how Ray Porter got to his dialysis appointment. If it was his car out the front of FGM’s, I guess it’s possible someone else borrowed his car? I’ve always thought it was bizarre that the owners of those cars never came forward.

He used to get taxis from the nursing home, maybe he did this also before he was in the nursing home???

 

[drsleuth]

Tinker Taylor,

I don't understand why it would be the responsibility of a target person to return a camera when they find it's been spying on them. IMO the police are lucky it was returned in one piece instead of smashed to bits.

How was PS supposed to know the camera belonged to police, by the way? Did it have "NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE FORCE" printed on the side?

I think it would have been in his best interest to contact the cops as soon as he saw & took the camera IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I think it would have been in his best interested to contact the cops as soon as he saw & took the camera IMO

Hard to understand why he didn't. Who on earth did he think put the camera there? It is not as if hunters would have done so in that area, and it is not as if anyone would have been trying to protect their property in that area.

 

[drsleuth]

drsleuth,

I accept what you're saying and this is just my opinion: I think it's always possible that FFC and every other witness could be convinced their memory is accurate even when at times it isn't. (I'm not accusing, just suggesting this is always a possibility in testimony about anything.) A faulty recollection wouldn't mean the person is making up a story or constructing a lie, it could just be due to the capacity of brains and memories to sometimes be unreliable without telling us so. My opinion only.

I get that stormbird, but why would she remember cars that weren't there?

I just think that these cars were there ( including the one that turned into the Miller's )

How does a person remember something that 'wasn't there'? More likely to not remember something that was there. imo

Her memory of those two cars jogged into action within a relatively short time of William going missing.

I agree SA

 

[drsleuth]

My question is ............why does "mystery man at #35" have his name suppressed?

Very good question, barley mentioned at the inquest at all ( & in no real detail either from what I re-call )

 

[JLZ]

So what would the reason be for not telling police in this scenario? He obviously had to have cared about William’s safety and wasn’t frightened for his own safety if he went after the abductor(s). Surely telling the police what he saw would have had a better outcome than PS locating and confronting the abductor(s) on his own.

Perhaps blackmail or to have an advantage over the abductor; perhaps to be the sole heroic rescuer.

Myself, I think PS is innocent and knows nothing. But I wasn't at the inquest and I understand that some people who had the advantage of seeing him there formed a different impression. Not to mention Jubelin; about whom I have many doubts, but objectively he surely knows more about this than I could.

 

[drsleuth]

Sorry for all the post, just catching up while I can

 

[SouthAussie]

Perhaps blackmail or to have an advantage over the abductor; perhaps to be the sole heroic rescuer.

Myself, I think PS is innocent and knows nothing. But I wasn't at the inquest and I understand that some people who had the advantage of seeing him there formed a different impression. Not to mention Jubelin; about whom I have many doubts, but objectively he surely knows more about this than I could.

I agree that objectivity in this matter is good. We don't know what Jubes knows, and a person isn't a police officer for 34 years without being able to identify more easily than us if a person seems to be concealing something.

I can't imagine the opinion of a school teacher of 34 years, or any other professional of 34 years, having their innate knowledge questioned as much as Jubes' professional knowledge and instinct has been questioned.

And I could see Savage wanting to be a hero ... just like he seems to enjoy being the bearer of all knowledge about Benaroon Drive.

 

[Loxoli]

No we don't. My theory is just me trying to piece things together, using things we do know ... that the police are searching all around where Abbott lived and Jubes' focus on getting Savage to talk.

I welcome anyone else's theory. And I understand that theories can change as/if we learn more.

I think discussing theories is a fantastic way to try to work out what the possibilities are with the information we currently have. Personally, I’m getting more confused the more info we are receiving. The inquests and subsequent information released have given me more questions than answers. Hopefully the pieces of the puzzle all fall together eventually. That is why theories are important to discuss.