Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[Loxoli]

IN’s evidence

Some points from her evidence

· Husband AN, also known as WN & “Dooley”

· Had scrap metal business in Old Bar

· 1988/1989 Mr Abott Snr ( who they knew ) came looking for job for FA

· They employed him as casual, used to fix anything & everything “ Jack of all trades & master of none”

· Did a lot of mechanical work, got cars working

· FA has 2 brothers DA ( minister ) GA ( known as blue )

· About 18 mths after FA began working had local cop come saying he won’t be back due to murder in Sydney 26 yrs ago

· FA never told them about being charged & they didn’t see him for years

· FA came back & moved to John’s River . N’s also did too

· FA did work on community hall with brother DA. He lived opposite Community Hall

· FA had markets & sold bits of junk

· When asked by Coroner if they were still on friendly terms , she said husband was, were mates, both keen punters on horses

· Said FA had is own car registered in sister from Sydney's name due to fines

· Used to drive back roads around Johns River , including thru forest, from Cundletown to Taree

· FA knew person named TB, lived in Kendall, was a mechanic, had servo Kew.

· FA took them there once something to do with rego

· IN said she didn’t know Foxes Creek Rd when asked

· IN said in her statement that there was an occasion when media coverage showed a person named “Cox” had been murdered & found @ Old Bar in river

· IN & AN saw FA with marks on his arm the next day, told AN that they were from Oysters

· IN said they looked like 7-8 scratch marks on his arm, like finger mark guages

· That was in Dec 1991

· C - “ Also fellow hit by vehicle on Rd @ Johns River & killed”

· Police were asking locals

· They remained friends with FA & husband spoke about horses, some times spoke 3-4/day

· RP was good friend of FA

· Knew RP had kidney problem & later on dialysis, said RP lived at caravan park at Kendall, moved to unit @ Wauchope

· Did not know had relative ( brother ) has something to do with showground at Kendall

· C- “While you were in JR @ one time see FA have conversation about his car?”

· IN- “ Yeah”

· "Not sure if husband mentioned that FA said someone took his car out bush & burnt it" , she couldn’t remember when

· Dooley is a fisherman, never went fishing with FA, FA talked about fishing with RP, used to go to Dunbogan. Didn’t know if FA or RP had a boat, never saw & never heard

· Did some work for them @ JR, work on cars, change oil, minor things

· N’s didn’t sell scrap @ JR, doesn’t know if FA did.

· At some point knew FA moved to Herons Creek. Asked if she knew where & said “ More a bush mill. Owner bought buses, stripped seats & sold as mobile homes. At sawmill FA had 2 caravans, bit of awning between the two. That’s where he was living. Mr C said that’s a detailed description, must have been there. IN said dropped FA home sometimes. She wasn’t able to put a time when.

· IN her statement 18/5/19 said little old lady MB from Old Bar asked if knew someone to do odd jobs, suggested FA & he started doing odd jobs.

· Mr C, so couple of years before 2019

· Mr C – Than you go on to say in statement around same time FA doing jobs for MB, FA came to your house , said he “ Took this women & kid to Tamworth & the ***** didn’t pay me”

· Mr C – You remembered the comment was after WT missing, probably not till about 2016/17

· IN “ He was cranky about not being paid, yes”

· Mr C – “ Did you & Dooley ask him about who it was?”

· IN – “ FA didn’t say”

· Mr C – “ When FA living at HC Rd, did you see another person who worked there with firewood selling business?”

· IN – “ Guy cut wood & sold Penrith”

· C- “ Did FA say he helped?”

· IN – “ Didn’t say”

· C- “ Did he make comment that guy just up & moved ?”

· IN – “ Yeah thought told gone to Melbourne”

· IN Saw FA & RP in Kew at antique shop

· IN told police one last time she saw FA he told her he “ Had to go & babysit @ Caravan Paark @ Dundogan”

· C- “ Did it strike you as odd, FA a babysitter”

· IN laughed

· C approached witness & showed her a phone number , it was their landline. Mr C said that # had been in contact with FA’s phone on quite a # of ocassions in sept 2014

· C – “ From the 15/9, you speak to Mr FA ?”

· IN – “ no , husband”

· C- : Did you Dooley & FA ever have a falling out ?”

· IN – “ No , I don’t think so”

End of evidence

FA didn't have many Q's for IN

Excuse any spelling mistakes / typos / errors

I’m loving these snippets of the inquest @drsleuth thank you!

 

[interested64]

Yes good find TGY!!! I kept wondering about the tail lights..... Would agree with those photos ... Thanks a bunch!

Is someone able to fill me in on the red car,i must have missed something .thanks

 

[SLouTh]

Is someone able to fill me in on the red car,i must have missed something .thanks

It was a car shown parked at Brownys .... on google maps.... I had thought it may have been a Monaro (owned by Protected Witness) but it wasn't...it was a dead end,,,,

Just going to have to keep on sleuthing.....

 

[Blues Clues]

· Mr C – “ When FA living at HC Rd, did you see another person who worked there with firewood selling business?”

· IN – “ Guy cut wood & sold Penrith”

· C- “ Did FA say he helped?”

· IN – “ Didn’t say”

· C- “ Did he make comment that guy just up & moved ?”

· IN – “ Yeah thought told gone to Melbourne”

My understanding is the firewood supply business operated on the Parish property but was owned by another man who had purchased it in 2013 - he was called as a witness at the inquest...I think
Was this in closed court do you know drsleuth? are we able to discuss him?

 

[interested64]

Yes good find TGY!!! I kept wondering about the tail lights..... Would agree with those photos ... Thanks a bunch!

Is someone able to fill me in on the red car,i must have missed something .thanks

It was a car shown parked at Brownys .... on google maps.... I had thought it may have been a Monaro (owned by Protected Witness) but it wasn't...it was a dead end,,,,

Just going to have to keep on sleuthing.....

It was a car shown parked at Brownys .... on google maps.... I had thought it may have been a Monaro (owned by Protected Witness) but it wasn't...it was a dead end,,,,

Just going to have to keep on sleuthing.....

Thanks

 

[SLouTh]

My understanding is the firewood supply business operated on the Parish property but was owned by another man who had purchased it in 2013 - he was called as a witness at the inquest...I think
Was this in closed court do you know drsleuth? are we able to discuss him?

Yes I would like to know more about him too! And what he had to say at the inquest???
His name is already in the public domain .....

 

[SLouTh]

IN’s evidence

Some points from her evidence

· Husband AN, also known as WN & “Dooley”

· Had scrap metal business in Old Bar

· 1988/1989 Mr Abott Snr ( who they knew ) came looking for job for FA

· They employed him as casual, used to fix anything & everything “ Jack of all trades & master of none”

· Did a lot of mechanical work, got cars working

· FA has 2 brothers DA ( minister ) GA ( known as blue )

· About 18 mths after FA began working had local cop come saying he won’t be back due to murder in Sydney 26 yrs ago

· FA never told them about being charged & they didn’t see him for years

· FA came back & moved to John’s River . N’s also did too

· FA did work on community hall with brother DA. He lived opposite Community Hall

· FA had markets & sold bits of junk

· When asked by Coroner if they were still on friendly terms , she said husband was, were mates, both keen punters on horses

· Said FA had is own car registered in sister from Sydney's name due to fines

· Used to drive back roads around Johns River , including thru forest, from Cundletown to Taree

· FA knew person named TB, lived in Kendall, was a mechanic, had servo Kew.

· FA took them there once something to do with rego

· IN said she didn’t know Foxes Creek Rd when asked

· IN said in her statement that there was an occasion when media coverage showed a person named “Cox” had been murdered & found @ Old Bar in river

· IN & AN saw FA with marks on his arm the next day, told AN that they were from Oysters

· IN said they looked like 7-8 scratch marks on his arm, like finger mark guages

· That was in Dec 1991

· C - “ Also fellow hit by vehicle on Rd @ Johns River & killed”

· Police were asking locals

· They remained friends with FA & husband spoke about horses, some times spoke 3-4/day

· RP was good friend of FA

· Knew RP had kidney problem & later on dialysis, said RP lived at caravan park at Kendall, moved to unit @ Wauchope

· Did not know had relative ( brother ) has something to do with showground at Kendall

· C- “While you were in JR @ one time see FA have conversation about his car?”

· IN- “ Yeah”

· "Not sure if husband mentioned that FA said someone took his car out bush & burnt it" , she couldn’t remember when

· Dooley is a fisherman, never went fishing with FA, FA talked about fishing with RP, used to go to Dunbogan. Didn’t know if FA or RP had a boat, never saw & never heard

· Did some work for them @ JR, work on cars, change oil, minor things

· N’s didn’t sell scrap @ JR, doesn’t know if FA did.

· At some point knew FA moved to Herons Creek. Asked if she knew where & said “ More a bush mill. Owner bought buses, stripped seats & sold as mobile homes. At sawmill FA had 2 caravans, bit of awning between the two. That’s where he was living. Mr C said that’s a detailed description, must have been there. IN said dropped FA home sometimes. She wasn’t able to put a time when.

· IN her statement 18/5/19 said little old lady MB from Old Bar asked if knew someone to do odd jobs, suggested FA & he started doing odd jobs.

· Mr C, so couple of years before 2019

· Mr C – Than you go on to say in statement around same time FA doing jobs for MB, FA came to your house , said he “ Took this women & kid to Tamworth & the ***** didn’t pay me”

· Mr C – You remembered the comment was after WT missing, probably not till about 2016/17

· IN “ He was cranky about not being paid, yes”

· Mr C – “ Did you & Dooley ask him about who it was?”

· IN – “ FA didn’t say”

· Mr C – “ When FA living at HC Rd, did you see another person who worked there with firewood selling business?”

· IN – “ Guy cut wood & sold Penrith”

· C- “ Did FA say he helped?”

· IN – “ Didn’t say”

· C- “ Did he make comment that guy just up & moved ?”

· IN – “ Yeah thought told gone to Melbourne”

· IN Saw FA & RP in Kew at antique shop

· IN told police one last time she saw FA he told her he “ Had to go & babysit @ Caravan Paark @ Dundogan”

· C- “ Did it strike you as odd, FA a babysitter”

· IN laughed

· C approached witness & showed her a phone number , it was their landline. Mr C said that # had been in contact with FA’s phone on quite a # of ocassions in sept 2014

· C – “ From the 15/9, you speak to Mr FA ?”

· IN – “ no , husband”

· C- : Did you Dooley & FA ever have a falling out ?”

· IN – “ No , I don’t think so”

End of evidence

FA didn't have many Q's for IN

Excuse any spelling mistakes / typos / errors

Thanks so much @drsleuth this is very comprehensive, and some interesting information there!
Imagine FA Caretaking a caravan park The mind boggles!

Do you or Blues have something like this from Martin Parish's time on the stand? As I'm sure a lot of us would like to know about that too....

Thanks again for sharing....

 

[Blues Clues]

Thanks so much @drsleuth this is very comprehensive, and some interesting information there!
Imagine FA Caretaking a caravan park The mind boggles!

Do you or Blues have something like this from Martin Parish's time on the stand? As I'm sure a lot of us would like to know about that too....

Thanks again for sharing....

Was FA babysitting the caravan park or babysitting children? I thought children but could be misinterpreting.

Sorry I wasn’t at the inquest the day MP gave testimony.

 

[SLouTh]

Was FA babysitting the caravan park or babysitting children? I thought children but could be misinterpreting.

Sorry I wasn’t at the inquest the day MP gave testimony.

I sort of hope he wasn't babysitting children.... even the caravan park was enough to worry me! IMO
Maybe I have misinterpreted??? I have re -read it and yes possibly it was children he was babysitting....

 

[JLZ]

I sort of hope he wasn't babysitting children.... even the caravan park was enough to worry me! IMO
Maybe I have misinterpreted???

I took it that he was minding children as well and I thought IN's laughter was a weird reaction to the question of how she took that.

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks so much @drsleuth this is very comprehensive, and some interesting information there!
Imagine FA Caretaking a caravan park The mind boggles!

Do you or Blues have something like this from Martin Parish's time on the stand? As I'm sure a lot of us would like to know about that too....

Thanks again for sharing....

Sorry I don't have time atm, will do when I can..........

 

[drsleuth]

Was FA babysitting the caravan park or babysitting children? I thought children but could be misinterpreting.

Sorry I wasn’t at the inquest the day MP gave testimony.

He said he was babysitting AT the caravan park

 

[Tinker Taylor]

He said he was babysitting AT the caravan park

OMG! He can't even be trusted with a dog!!

 

[Blues Clues]

Did the task force hear the recording of the phone call between the protected witness and FA and make contact with the protected witness before he went to visit FA?

Did the protected witness visit FA and receive the piece of paper with two names on it before or after FA was arrested and taken in for questioning in Nov 2019?

Not expecting answers, but the sequence in which these things occurred would be great to know.

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks so much @drsleuth this is very comprehensive, and some interesting information there!
Imagine FA Caretaking a caravan park The mind boggles!

Do you or Blues have something like this from Martin Parish's time on the stand? As I'm sure a lot of us would like to know about that too....

Thanks again for sharing....

Sorry , I wasn't in court that day for MP's evidence. I was there for DP's the next day.

 

[drsleuth]

Did the task force hear the recording of the phone call between the protected witness and FA and make contact with the protected witness before he went to visit FA?

Did the protected witness visit FA and receive the piece of paper with two names on it before or after FA was arrested and taken in for questioning in Nov 2019?

Not expecting answers, but the sequence in which these things occurred would be great to know.

Blue Clues,

Did the task force hear the recording of the phone call between the protected witness and FA and make contact with the protected witness before he went to visit FA?

I think so

Did the protected witness visit FA and receive the piece of paper with two names on it before or after FA was arrested and taken in for questioning in Nov 2019?

After, there was a phone conversation that was played in court from 19/2/2020, the protected witness than arranged to visit FA , where FA gave him 2 names on a piece if paper which he gave to police

The impression I got was that this protected witness was working with the police?

 

[Blues Clues]

Blue Clues,

Did the task force hear the recording of the phone call between the protected witness and FA and make contact with the protected witness before he went to visit FA?

I think so

Did the protected witness visit FA and receive the piece of paper with two names on it before or after FA was arrested and taken in for questioning in Nov 2019?

After, there was a phone conversation that was played in court from 19/2/2020, the protected witness than arranged to visit FA , where FA gave him 2 names on a piece if paper which he gave to police

The impression I got was that this protected witness was working with the police?

Thank you so much for that drsleuth. I wasn't expecting the answers would be known.

"The impression I got was that this protected witness was working with the police?"

This was what I was trying to ascertain. Thanks again.

ETA probable sequence;

* FA arrested and interviewed Nov 2019
* Protected witness recorded phone call to FA 19/2/20
* Police spoke to protected witness
* Protected witness visited FA in gaol

 

[drsleuth]

Thank you so much for that drsleuth. I wasn't expecting the answers would be known.

"The impression I got was that this protected witness was working with the police?"

This was what I was trying to ascertain. Thanks again.

No worries, it's hard to know what I can say & what not at times.

I certainly don't want to hinder an investigation

 

[Blues Clues]

No worries, it's hard to know what I can say & what not at times.

I certainly don't want to hinder an investigation

Yes it's intriguing that some witnesses don't get a mention in the media and others do.

The ones we don't read about might be those who are highest up the list of suspicion maybe. The investigators would be playing their cards close to their chest no doubt.

 

[stormbird]

Thank you so much for that drsleuth. I wasn't expecting the answers would be known.

"The impression I got was that this protected witness was working with the police?"

This was what I was trying to ascertain. Thanks again.

ETA probable sequence;

* FA arrested and interviewed Nov 2019
* Protected witness recorded phone call to FA 19/2/20
* Police spoke to protected witness
* Protected witness visited FA in gaol

Blues Clues,

Hypothetically, say a witness was talking to an inmate on behalf of police, I think it would be strange if the Coroner made the person give testimony in front of a court room full of peers and media and the inmate watching via video link. But say it did happen, what would it mean? I don't understand what you're saying about the sequence of events.

I think FA would have been in prison serving his 16 sentence by the time he was interviewed in Nov 2019, so it wouldn't have been possible for any family or friends to call him (see below). I think it's likely that FA called the witness, not the other way around.

From The Families Handbook: A Guide for Families and Friends of Prisoners (a PDF)

Phone calls p.64
"You won't be able to phone your family member in a correctional centre.
Each prisoner receives a phone card with six phone numbers that can be programmed for family and friends.
They can also allocate three numbers for services they may wish to phone. They must have money in their account to make phone calls. Phone calls generally last six minutes." ...
"Prisoners may have to queue to use one of a limited number of phones, so they may not be able to contact you exactly when you are expecting a call."