AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
SmoothOperator said:
I've never felt so very torn at what has been publicly insinuated ..inferred.. and alluded to about a victims family in my entire life.. and it hasn't a damn thing to do with libel.. slander.. and certainly not about lawsuits.. it has to do with my feeling that this family are helpless victims and what they have been through in just this months time is a hell beyond which any family should ever have to live through..

I'm outta here.. peace
Click to expand...

Seriously, this is the crux of the issue right here. These are victims here, all of Isa's family. Thanks, Anita Richman, for being there in the flesh to relate what it's really like, and bring this point back home? While LE is not ruling the family out as POI, and stating that everyone is a POI, that does not equate to the family being guilty perps either.

While there are certain things that raise my eyebrows toward some of the family, there has been nothing that damning in all of these weeks for me to want to post unsubstantiated rumor about this family either. Until I know more about the previous CPS visit, or just how involved in drugs or drug dealing this family is, I will continue to give the family the benefit of the doubt.

I have so little in the way of facts to go on in this case.

It is a complex case, and because I care about Isa, I care about those who love her as well. I have not seen much evidence of a lack of love on the family's part, quite the contrary. I keep my mind open to their involvement simply because any other scenario seems very rare; that said, I just don't see any purpose in my pumping venom into the snake of rumor that is already out there on the internet.

I am not here for bombshells, alien abduction theories, or viewers ratings. I am pretty sure I'd score pretty low on the viewer rating scale, and that's okay by me. I just want the best for Isa and her family.

I come here in search of the truth, not to write the story.
 
azmary said:
SC states "We woke up" and she's gone. I woke up my sons we looked everywhere in the house.
We woke up then he states he woke the boy's up. Who was We?
Click to expand...

WE woke up. <....... period should have been there. (RC and SC imo). AND the rest continues. LISTEN to the 911 call and not just read.:moo:

Nevermind. I give up ... like others have. Peace.

I hope all this nit picking finds Isabel. WE all want her found safe and sound. :seeya: to old friends and new ones I met here. Peace to you and yours.
 
azmary said:
SC states "We woke up" and she's gone. I woke up my sons we looked everywhere in the house.
We woke up then he states he woke the boy's up. Who was We?
Click to expand...

I have been looking at these things for about five years. I am highly suspicious when pronouns are changed. Jeremy Irwin did the same thing.

When you are speaking for yourself, there should be an explanation of why "I" suddenly turns to "We". It didn't happen from experienced memory because, if it did, the person would explain how the other enters the scene. He doesn't. In my opinion, he is not speaking the truth about how that discovery occurred.

I don't think pronoun problems can be explained away by language barrier either.
 
Spice-Nine said:
Since the first week of the investigation into Isabel's disappearance, IMO TPD along with FBI and associated behavioral analysts have been guiding much of the Celis' public demeanor and subsequently, the public's perception. I believe this became evident during the Celis' first press conf. when SC questions the "demands" of the person or persons who abducted Isabel. The aloof demeanor of these parents quickly became fodder for public scrutiny. SC was was again criticized for comments he made during another public appearance when he said, "Look at her. She's beautiful". IMO this particular statement may have been scripted by behavioral analysts with a possible intention of prompting an abductor to see and personalize a victim and hopefully reduce risk of harm to Isabel.

Others here have expressed how much of what they hear from TPD or the Celis' simply felt "off" and it likely is. When TPD released information about the cost of their investigation they cited 1 million dollars. I remember reading (either here at WS or other sights frequented by those of us interested in this case) that this was inappropriate and not the type of information usually released or discussed by investigating agencies. I wonder, could this information actually identify a ransom and is information intended for a very particular audience, delivered disguised in a release to the public?

The surveillance video, reported to be recorded in the early morning hours of 4/21/12 revealed an individual lurking behind a wall, who seemingly monitors five people as they walk past the lurker through the parking lot of St. Joseph's. The video was released to MSM and presented with fanfare but within days it was discredited.TPD citing the true recording date as the following night, 4/22/12. The public was told to expect additional surveillance video. To my knowledge, none was released. :waitasec:

IMO TPD/LE engages in verbal sleight of hand, keeping information "close to the vest" while releasing little substantive information to the public. At the same time, TPD calls attention to the case and presents information loaded with enough vague innuendo related to SC and possibly RC to ensure public scrutiny and a frenzy of speculation. Essentially, this shields their investigation and provides cover for a few days. It is brilliant and hopefully, will yield a welcomed result soon, when Isabel is again with her loving family. TPD has only one true loyalty to honor, loyalty to Isabel. If it is necessary for TPD to keep the public at bay to return her to a secure and happy life, so be it.

The Celis' publicly stated they are willing to do anything to have their daughter Isabel returned to them. IMO although unfair, the negative public scrutiny they are enduring, :waitasec:is a price they are willing to pay.
Whether Isabel's abduction was enacted by a person unknown to them or created as way in which to maintain her safety, pray Isabel is home with her family soon.
All of this is simply my opinion.
Thank you for letting me share my thoughts with you.:tyou:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your perspective. What you have said spotlights why I am having a difficult time with finding a theory that fits with what we know, which is really nothing more than Isa missing. We have a few facts, but even MSM seems to be having a hard time keeping things straight. Nothing is really "normal" about this case because, at least from the outside, they don't seem to be the type of family this would happen to. They appear to be very involved with their children, RC is well-loved by the community, they both hold positions in the medical field (if an accident occurred in the home, RC would know what to do or at the least how to start - and, I would think they would call 911 immediately or bring her to ER), SC and RC are the natural parents to all three children (per 911 transcript posted earlier in this thread, IIRC).

I am having a hard time believing the parents had direct involvement in Isa's disappearance, but at the same time I find it hard to believe it was a stranger abduction. Plus, LE is leaking information that puts the Celis family in a bad light. Is LE doing this because they do have some evidence or information that points to the family, or because they are trying to throw the perp off? Or is it because they have no clue what happened?

All JMHO
 
I just do not see how someone could sneek in and sneek out with a child in tow while dad slept on the couch on the other side of the wall. Also I find it odd that BC got to work early that morning yet didnt have time to check on her daughter. I am not accusing anyone and there is always the chance that the family is not involved however I find the abbove things odd.
 
cluciano63 said:
I just want to say, people should not be "shamed" for thinking that one or both parents could be involved, as LE is the one who keeps turning the spotlight back on them, then taking it off for a bit, then turning it back on. I always assume LE knows more than I know.

Also, I would like to ask, are Tuscon police notorious for trying to railroad people, or bring false charges? I just wonder, I have never heard anything about TPD either way, but I've seen some comments here as though they are not capable of handling this case. Personally, I am not sure any LE is very adept with missing persons cases.

JMO
Click to expand...

I think they are handling this case methodically. Piece by piece. The other agencies might have some say so as to how to handle it. It does seem like they are looking at Isa being taken across the border & possibly connected to SC? JM? Hawke said in the presser last Thursday that in the number of office people working Isa's case 30, FBI & US Marshals were included in that number as that's from memory. (I'd have to listen to that again if US Marshals were included tbh.)

There's dirty cops in many towns from what I read & hear. I consider the source. We have called LE about 3 times in 10 years though. Our neighborhood emails each other. Obviously there are some as they arrest them. Don't follow the news on twitter from each state, it will shock you somedays as to how many upstanding people go bad that you would never imagine.
 
Dr. Know? said:
I think they are handling this case methodically. Piece by piece. The other agencies might have some say so as to how to handle it. It does seem like they are looking at Isa being taken across the border & possibly connected to SC? JM? Hawke said in the presser last Thursday that in the number of office people working Isa's case 30, FBI & US Marshals were included in that number as that's from memory. (I'd have to listen to that again if US Marshals were included tbh.)

There's dirty cops in many towns from what I read & hear. I consider the source. We have called LE about 3 times in 10 years though. Our neighborhood emails each other. Obviously there are some as they arrest them. Don't follow the news on twitter from each state, it will shock you somedays as to how many upstanding people go bad that you would never imagine.
Click to expand...

BBM

I remember hearing that, too. I'll have to watch it back also, but fwiw you aren't the only one remembering it.
 
Ransom said:
WE woke up. <....... period should have been there. (RC and SC imo). AND the rest continues. LISTEN to the 911 call and not just read.:moo:

Nevermind. I give up ... like others have. Peace.

I hope all this nit picking finds Isabel. WE all want her found safe and sound. :seeya: to old friends and new ones I met here. Peace to you and yours.
Click to expand...

Peace to you, too, Ransom! :peace:

Let's all find Isa and bring her to a safe place!:please:
 
The news we hear does point to dad. Him being kept away from the kids. I just want to know why like the rest of you do too. Sumptin's up. jmo
 
Whisperer said:
I have been looking at these things for about five years. I am highly suspicious when pronouns are changed. Jeremy Irwin did the same thing.

When you are speaking for yourself, there should be an explanation of why "I" suddenly turns to "We". It didn't happen from experienced memory because, if it did, the person would explain how the other enters the scene. He doesn't. In my opinion, he is not speaking the truth about how that discovery occurred.

I don't think pronoun problems can be explained away by language barrier either.
Click to expand...

In my experience, personal pronoun confusion is a common error made in both writing and speech in the American version of the English language by "native" speakers. Both personal pronoun inconsistency and vague pronoun reference is pervasive in the writing and speech I see. I see jumps from first person singular "I" to second person plural general humanity "you" to third person plural "we" in speech and writing everywhere. While it might be noticable to me, I don't think anyone is hiding anything sinister by showing a lack of attention to personal pronouns.

It's late, so I hope my own post is making sense.
JMO
 
butterfly1978 said:
I just do not see how someone could sneek in and sneek out with a child in tow while dad slept on the couch on the other side of the wall. Also I find it odd that BC got to work early that morning yet didnt have time to check on her daughter. I am not accusing anyone and there is always the chance that the family is not involved however I find the abbove things odd.
Click to expand...

we have heard what SC told police about staying awake till midnight, watching TV and sleeping on the couch, but what about BC´s version of what happenned that night, normally it is the mother the last one going to bed after helping the kids taking showers, looking for pajamas,a glass of milk,doing Isas hair,clothes for the next day(above all in case Isa had to wake up early next morning for a game), when BC went to bed that night? and why was SC sleeping on the couch(sorry I did not believe he did just fall asleep), why has BC her little girl no good night kiss for her little girl,and next morning either did check on her? what do we know about BC that last night her daughter was seen alive?
As my daughter was 6, I did always tuck her into bed, gave a night kiss as well
 
If someone who stayed at Isa's house knew the code to their garage door opener & they had a key pad to physically punch that # in that would be a quiet way to get in/out, if someone who had installed it or any security of any kind, they could get in. (We were told several years ago to change the remote settings after ours was put in or anyone else could come along & open your garage door or outside gates, etc.. as they were set to the same from the manufacturer. That to me would be a familar person to their home or someone with a remote to open the g-door also.)

So, the side of the neighbor lady, AS, guest house person, might have actually heard people on her own side of the wall dividing their properties. One on her side, one handing Isa over that shorter wall.

If no cameras picked up Isa leaving it would be from the back alley/easement area heading away from the commercial areas that do have cameras.

I sure hope they are just building a case. Possibly no cameras sucks. jmo
 
Dr. Know? said:
I think they are handling this case methodically. Piece by piece. The other agencies might have some say so as to how to handle it. It does seem like they are looking at Isa being taken across the border & possibly connected to SC? JM? Hawke said in the presser last Thursday that in the number of office people working Isa's case 30, FBI & US Marshals were included in that number as that's from memory. (I'd have to listen to that again if US Marshals were included tbh.)

There's dirty cops in many towns from what I read & hear. I consider the source. We have called LE about 3 times in 10 years though. Our neighborhood emails each other. Obviously there are some as they arrest them. Don't follow the news on twitter from each state, it will shock you somedays as to how many upstanding people go bad that you would never imagine.
Click to expand...

Stash777 said:
BBM

I remember hearing that, too. I'll have to watch it back also, but fwiw you aren't the only one remembering it.
Click to expand...

Sorry to quote myself in this, but I just wanted to make it easier to follow.

At 13:42 a reporter asks about the number of investigators working the case. Hawke says (paraphrased) approximately 20 detectives and 30 support personnel. The 30 support personnel includes FBI and US Marshals.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/category/179377/video-center?clipId=7285968&autostart=true
 
My view only.
TPD know's what happened , they have searched the same area three times. Seems like they are looking for evidence to press charges. What possibly has them going into that area is video's showing a vehicle along a certain path from various security cameras.(moo)
 
Hawke did say they had been to that area and searched several times? in the presser & that other areas have been searched up to 4 times? Correct me if I'm wrong. They must have a reason why or really need to eliminate it so there's no doubt. just guessing...
 
I have not been able to keep up here, I'm afraid. But I echo those posters who state that no matter the theory or the reasons for a given theory we're all purportedly here in hopes of finding Isabel and learning the truth. The snide comments and so forth are simply divisive. But I guess in the overall scheme of things it's unlikely that *any* of us will know the truth... until it's made public. Until then it's simply all conjecture and interpretation. But it needn't be snide. IMO/JMO/ABC/DEF/GHI ad nauseum.

My profound thanks to Anita for her extremely poignant and detailed account of tonight's vigil.
 
Since I'm new, I'm attempting to catch up and to learn more about your website. Does this blog actually have any policy about how much we are allowed to post on possible theories of a crime? I'm trying to understand what the limitations are.

What is considered acceptable? As long as it's a plausible theory, and it's stated as only conjecture, is that OK? If we post more than the moderators are comfortable with, will they automatically stop us?

I have seen speculation that crime blogs could adversely effect law enforcement or prosecution in an eventual trial. Is that considered to be a real concern here?
 
SmoothOperator said:
I will repeat a statement that I made very early on within days of Isa's abduction ..not only is my opinion the same but more importantly its that I believe at this point the consequences are beyond repairable at this time..

My statement very early on was that if this Celis family truly is actually innocent of their daughters disappearance(that most of us fully realize is very likely her death rather than "disappearance") this Tuscon police Department have done irreparable and IMO at this ppoint unforgivable damage to this family..

Moo is still that I don' believe Sergio and Becky are responsible for Isa's abduction.. I believe that the perp has thus far done an adequate job of covering their tracks.. I do not believe that adequate job will allow him to forever go undetected but I believe LE quite possibly hasn't a damn clue as to what has happened to Isa aand they are hoping like hell that its the parents and that if by God they press hard enough, long enough that it will solve their case miraculously..meanwhile that is their focus and strategy throw as much as they can toward the parents in hopes that the combo of police.. CPS.. media.. and public pressure will crack this family.. ..

Well they've cracked this family alright.. and if it just so happens that my fear is correct this TPD has destroyed a family that were the helpless victims of having their daughter stolen and murdered..
Click to expand...

Sorry for replying so late... Fell asleep last night and I am just catching up.

Thank you for this post, it was well said. I completely agree with your thoughts and fears.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 91 more.
Total: 1,313 (members: 92, guests: 1,221)

Online statistics

Members online
92
Guests online
1,221
Total visitors
1,313
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
596,561
Messages
18,049,618
Members
230,029
Latest member
myauris11
Back
Top