AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[Anita Richman]

I was thinking about the abduction of Jaycee Dugard in relation to Isa yesterday. Jaycee was stolen, in broad daylight, with multiple witnesses and even her stepdad chasing after her. Yet, the finger of suspicion was on him for all those years, up until she emerged as an adult. The suspicion was so strong (even though there wasn't any evidence that he had harmed her, just normal familial stuff that might "look" suspicious under a microscope) that it led to the divorce of Jaycee's mom from the stepdad. Looking back, I wonder how anyone really thought he could have been behind her disappearance, and for what end.

I feel like the same thing is happening to SC and RC. I don't believe Mr. Celis is a criminal mastermind that could outsmart the TPD or the FBI. I also believe that if he did something to Isa, her remains would have been found already. In my opinion, due to lack of evidence pointing to the abductor (criminals get lucky, too), the only place LE has to look is at the Celis couple. And unfortunately, that is not going to bring Isa home.

 

[Gracelin]

Bump for Isa where are you sweet girl...

 

[winterrose]

From most of the public's viewpoint, here lies the problem, http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/159977075.html In this video, RC's lack of emotion is actually disturbing. SC wasn't there, so obviously he's still under the CPS agreement after two months. The people behind RC are laughing, knowing the cameras are there and RC is being interviewed. The woman in the middle is I believe Isa's aunt, CL. They could at least act like they're there for a missing child, if they want donations from the public, not a good move to be laughing at a missing child table on camera. In the interview RC sounds like she's there for a charity drive and come over to the table and help out the cause.

 

[time]

Here's a hypothetical question, I guess. I'll probably get shot down easily with something one of you knows that I don't, but here goes.

Could there be any reason CPS said one of the parents gets to stay (seemingly with supervision as people have been talking about) with the boys and the other has a no contact order . RC and SC chose for RC to be the parents to stay with the boys. Reason, RC could lose her job if she had a no contact order since she works with kids.

 

[Madeleine74]

I have the same question as the above article, if during the course of the investigation they found reason to seperate SC from the remaining kids, why have no formal charges been brought against him...... and if nothing was found why havent they been reunited???? Is LE dragging thier feet?

Child Protective Services was contacted and at that point it's their investigation in the fitness of SC as a parent with his remaining children. LE is not part of that. Investigating a missing person case is separate. They can strongly suspect SC's involvement but until they have enough evidence to prove what happened, no DA worth their salt will accept the case. What charges would they bring at this point?

 

[Madeleine74]

Isa's thread has been bumped so many times it's turning black and blue from bruising. Isa's thread sitting at the top of page one does not do a thing in terms of the investigation. Thousands of people have mulled over every possible scenario over 24 threads. At some point people are just repeating the same things overAndoverAndover.

The real question to ask is: "how many LE folks are still working on the case?" That's the most important factor.

Ultimately, solving this case will come down to LE and how much evidence they can amass and whether there is any forensic evidence that can provide proof of what happened.

 

[panthera]

Isa's thread has been bumped so many times it's turning black and blue from bruising. Isa's thread sitting at the top of page one does not do a thing in terms of the investigation. Thousands of people have mulled over every possible scenario over 24 threads. At some point people are just repeating the same things overAndoverAndover.

The real question to ask is: "how many LE folks are still working on the case?" That's the most important factor.

Ultimately, solving this case will come down to LE and how much evidence they can amass and whether there is any forensic evidence that can provide proof of what happened.

Curious also what the status of the investigation is. I would imagine if they had much evidence, forensic or otherwise, there would be some information released as to a possible POI, or an update on what LE believes occurred.



MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

Curious also what the status of the investigation is. I would imagine if they had much evidence, forensic or otherwise, there would be some information released as to a possible POI, or an update on what LE believes occurred.

That hasn't been my experience in the cases I've followed. Usually LE says very little and they make generic statements that don't give anything away. The only way we'll know for sure when they have a suspect is when they make an arrest. Until then... nada.

I know I mention this a lot, but so many people don't understand why LE doesn't open their files and spill all they know, and for some reason there's always an expectation that LE will tell. We have to remember LE's goal outside of finding the missing person is to preserve their case for the DA to litigate it. How does telling the public details about their case help preserve the investigation? (it doesn't).

To help solve cases one could join the police force and work towards becoming an investigator, or become a private investigator, or try to join the FBI. Outside of that...one is just a spectator watching & waiting.

 

[pieper4]

Isa's thread has been bumped so many times it's turning black and blue from bruising. Isa's thread sitting at the top of page one does not do a thing in terms of the investigation. Thousands of people have mulled over every possible scenario over 24 threads. At some point people are just repeating the same things overAndoverAndover.

The real question to ask is: "how many LE folks are still working on the case?" That's the most important factor.

Ultimately, solving this case will come down to LE and how much evidence they can amass and whether there is any forensic evidence that can provide proof of what happened.

Local news reported yesterday that there are under 20 LE on the case at this time.
ETA: http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/159977075.html - 3rd to last paragraph.

 

[Madeleine74]

Local news reported yesterday that there are under 20 LE on the case at this time.

That's still a significant number devoted to one case. There's only so much that can be done before no new info is available, and there are other cases that require LE resources.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Here's a hypothetical question, I guess. I'll probably get shot down easily with something one of you knows that I don't, but here goes.

Could there be any reason CPS said one of the parents gets to stay (seemingly with supervision as people have been talking about) with the boys and the other has a no contact order . RC and SC chose for RC to be the parents to stay with the boys. Reason, RC could lose her job if she had a no contact order since she works with kids.

So you mean, CPS say, only one parent can stay, but the parents choose which one?

No.

CPS do not arrange no-contact orders lightly. It is actually the most stringent condition they can put on a parent, short of getting them arrested. It is only the suspected perpetrator who is subject to any conditions...the susperp doesn't get to choose his wife to take the rap for him. In this case CPS clearly believe the boys are safe with RC, but not with SC.

I hope they are still searching for Isabel. They need to find her and bring her home! Find her and they find the truth.:maddening:

 

[Ransom]

So you mean, CPS say, only one parent can stay, but the parents choose which one?

No.

CPS do not arrange no-contact orders lightly. It is actually the most stringent condition they can put on a parent, short of getting them arrested. It is only the suspected perpetrator who is subject to any conditions...the susperp doesn't get to choose his wife to take the rap for him. In this case CPS clearly believe the boys are safe with RC, but not with SC.

I hope they are still searching for Isabel. They need to find her and bring her home! Find her and they find the truth.:maddening:

Again ... there is NO order as in no-contact ORDER. Zip, nada and NOPE on that. It's all voluntary. AGAIN.

ONE more time:
He said Monday that Sergio Celis voluntarily agreed to stay away from his two sons. He said the agreement is between Sergio Celis and CPS. The boys are with Becky Celis and are not in CPS custody, Villaseñor said.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_e7c41468-9dec-11e1-b1f1-001a4bcf887a.html
:sigh:

 

[FrayedKnot]

Again ... there is NO order as in no-contact ORDER. Zip, nada and NOPE on that. It's all voluntary. AGAIN.

ONE more time:
He said Monday that Sergio Celis voluntarily agreed to stay away from his two sons. He said the agreement is between Sergio Celis and CPS. The boys are with Becky Celis and are not in CPS custody, Villaseñor said.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_e7c41468-9dec-11e1-b1f1-001a4bcf887a.html
:sigh:

Semantics. IMHO.

 

[Dee10]

Again ... there is NO order as in no-contact ORDER. Zip, nada and NOPE on that. It's all voluntary. AGAIN.

ONE more time:
He said Monday that Sergio Celis voluntarily agreed to stay away from his two sons. He said the agreement is between Sergio Celis and CPS. The boys are with Becky Celis and are not in CPS custody, Villaseñor said.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_e7c41468-9dec-11e1-b1f1-001a4bcf887a.html
:sigh:

I am confused. What does this mean to you and why would Sergio agree? Curious on your take per your stance.

 

[pieper4]

Semantics. IMHO.

Semantics can be so much fun, really. As can playing the devil's advocate be.

Truth: there is no court order that we are aware of.
Truth: if the voluntary safety plan is violated, it could become an order.
Truth: a voluntary safety plan prohibiting contact between any parent and a child/children is a dire move.

Possibility: Perhaps LE is hoping SC violates the [order] agreement.

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe education does not have anything to do with sex offenders but their own background and childhood often does, unfortunately...it is a cycle in many cases...

 

[winterrose]

Coming upon some sensitive information in nature, that came about in the investigation of SC's missing child, Isa, LE contacted CPS about SC. CPS went back to detectives in the case and Isa's family members, according to the chief, then reached an agreement with SC.

He has absolutely no contact with the boys, and after two months it's still in place. A statement from the agency read: "At the present time, the children are not in CPS custody. Reached an agreement means "you do this or this is what's going to happen", CPS doesn't play around. I don't know that anyone actually believes if he hadn't agreed to the agreement that the parents would still have the boys.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Hard to believe that Isabel is still missing. And their just isn't any news. I am so tired of our children vanishing and never being found. Someone knows what happened to Isabel, and I am pretty sure that LE doesn't have to look far to find their answers.jmo

 

[Madilu]

Thank you for the link. Since the CA case in FL, I have been wondering what can be done to educate people about handling issues in their lives, BEFORE tragedy strikes. When parents and sitters hurt and kill children, it may be due to stress or depression. I know ZIP about psychology, but something must be missing in people's upbringing to allow so may people to hurt/kill/neglect innocent little children. There will always be mentally ill people, but how can so many people harm children?

The sheer number of sex-offenders boggles my mind. Perhaps the ratio of SOs to regular people has remained constant - the registration of and statistics regarding SOs may make the numbers APPEAR increased. But seeing there are HUNDREDS around IC's home is jaw-dropping. Seeing HUNDREDS in MY area is jaw-dropping. Are these people not being taught as children to respect others? I realize some of these SOs have mental issues and will always exist. What causes so many men (primarily) to think children are their play-toys? I can't comprehend this at all.

It seems to me some education could help decrease the sheer numbers of SOs and their victims. Education for parents as well, to help handle the stress of child-rearing. Education period. The US seems to value education less and less each day, and the results are more ignorance, more crime, and more harmed/murdered children.

I agree with your sentiments. Be not concerned and blogging about it. DO SOMETHING in your own community. Lots of people have ideals and thoughts and opinions, yet very few actually take time out of their days to actually make a difference. Please act as you see fit.

The other thing is, that, I don't know what country you come from, but the US does indeed value education and this has been a huge push for our past and current presidents; to not only promote health, well-being and education, but to also advocate for making higher education available to ALL Americans, that has been limited under past presidencies.

I believe that parents are continuing to be educated about the dangers to their children, in terms of pedophiles, etc. And as a result, more children are saved. The Sandusky verdict is HUGE in changing this devastating cycle for children. Yeah! I rejoice in each and every arrest for all there pedo *advertiser censored* rings around the world. I, like you, am sicked by that sickness.

The more time goes on, the more arrests that have been made with these rings that we never dreamed existed... I am thinking that Kyron Horman was shifted to a ring at the hands of his step mother... that Isabel very likely some such as well...that he/she is out there under horrible circumstances. And that he and Isa will come home to mamma.

 

[Pensfan]

Again ... there is NO order as in no-contact ORDER. Zip, nada and NOPE on that. It's all voluntary. AGAIN.

ONE more time:
He said Monday that Sergio Celis voluntarily agreed to stay away from his two sons. He said the agreement is between Sergio Celis and CPS. The boys are with Becky Celis and are not in CPS custody, Villaseñor said.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_e7c41468-9dec-11e1-b1f1-001a4bcf887a.html
:sigh:

Adding to Ransom's statement....Voluntary safety agreement only means that CPS told Sergio that he had the choice to:
1. stay away from his boys voluntarily (BC must make certain that he is not in the home with the boys) AND sign CPS's safety plan agreeing to this. In addition he must complete the rest of that safety plan that includes things we don't know about. The rest of the plan might require him to undergo counseling, take psychological exams, submit to random drug tests, attend parenting classes, and etc...

2. watch CPS get a court order and take his kids away from him AND his wife for an indefinite amount of time which could be PERMANENT

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse