AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 9

[Shelby2]

Are they obliged to give PC's everyday? Most only update the media when they have information or a break in the case.

Perhaps the parents will step up to the plate when LE stops giving the daily PC's??

Will there be one today at 2? If so does anyone have a link? Thank you.

 

[Patty G]

To get little kids to describe age or height to LE, they use comparison techniques: "Is he older or younger than grandpa? Older or younger than your teen cousin? Pick someone out of these pictures who looks as old as the man who was there: " Then they show them pics of people whose ages they know. It's not too hard.

As far as why they wouldn't scream, over and over we have seen cases where a perp busts into a home and takes a child. Polly Klaas was in a whole room of little girls. No one made a peep. Elizabeth Smart and her sister were both there and awakened. Her sister did not move for hours. Jessica Lunsford also went quietly. And countless kids are molested by uncles, fathers, cousins, etc., in the night, in houses full of people.

It is exceedingly easy to keep little kids quiet: "Make a sound and your dead. Make a sound and your dog is dead. Make a sound and your baby sister is dead. Make a sound and I will kill mommy and daddy."



I agree. I think they should be able to find this person. He must be close and he must have been watching.

And I agree with the profiler. Yes, it could be a pedophile excited by what happened to Isabel. But this is a very, very brazen crime. He entered a home and molested three kids while there. That matches the brazenness necessary to taking a child from her bedroom, into the night. The chances that these crimes are not linked are remote, IMO.

In response to quoting me: With regards to the other children mentioned, I am aware of how they remained quiet and never spoke as well as threats from relatives, intruders, etc. to remain quiet etc., however, the older child challenged the intruder.

I guess, we will never know how she challenged the intruder.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I find this quite possible, because it would explain why the parents are not out there in the media, if they are being told by LE that they have a person of high interest and are tying up loose ends (warrants, surveillance, etc). The family might be basically holding their breath waiting for more and finding it pointless to make a national plea when they are being told the case is focused on one person.
My only issue is that if LE knows this, why are they still on top of the family to speak out? Maybe because they don't want to tip anyone off....

Yea I am not sure, makes sense though, it is just some whispers that is going around in some circles in the legal community but not confirmed as far as I can say.

 

[gitana1]

I kind of prefer hearing from LE, myself...not sure what hearing from Isabel's parents will achieve as far as trying to determine the state of the investigation. JMO

Except LE is not telling us a thing. Maybe her parents will.

I feel bad suggesting this, but it did cross my mind.
After a local child murder, all of the parents here were having stranger danger talks with their kids. About a week after the crime, a neighborhood girl, age 9, started a bus stop story that a man had knocked on her door and said "are you home alone?" as soon as my kids told me that story, I called this little girl's parents, as did several other neighborhood parents, and it turns out the girl either "dreamed it" or made it up. I know how horrible it is to doubt childrens stories of abuse or molestation, and being 3 girls and not just one, I do not think it was made up as a reaction to the publicity of the Isabel case, but I sure hope there is tangible evidence of this crime at the scene.
It seems that the parent or grandparent of these girls, seeing the flyers everywhere and the news and the local drama of Isabel's case, would have told the girls to be extra alert, would have the alarm on..and the girls, knowing of Isabel's case, would have been in EXTRA fear during the event. I know if we were local and a man broke in, my kids would immediately think, "oh, no, its the bad man that took Isa!" and be LESS likely to keep quiet, because they would assume the goal is kidnapping. 10 is old enough to have that thought process.
Just sharing my thoughts, no judgements.

It crossed my mind yesterday too. But LE seems to be taking to very seriously, even today, so it seems there may be something to it.

I feel the same way. I'm trying to put myself in their shoes (which I can't imagine) and even if I couldn't speak from the heartbreak I would still get on TV crying my eyes out to let everyone know how much I missed my Baby and needed her back. I'm fearful this beautiful little girl was sold to the sex trade business. Someone could have been stalking her without the families knowledge. They need to find her ASAP and her family needs to suck it up and get on TV like LE is saying. Up til now I've understood, but since she hasn't been found yet they need to step up to the plate!!

What sex trade? Can you link to any mainstream media article the references the actual existence of a real sex trade involving little kids? And I don't mean troubled teens or runaways lured into truck stop prostitution or call girl scenarios. I also don't mean random cases of dirt bag parents selling their kids to someone they know for a 40 ounce or whatever.

I mean evidence of a true, shadowy, sex trade industry involving small children, in the United States, which allows people to purchase stolen children for the purposes of committing sex crimes or child *advertiser censored* or whatever.

Because I see this come up as a possibility in numerous cases but I have yet to hear of one viable case in the United States that evidences such a trade. I'm curious.

 

[thefragile7393]

BBM. I think it fits, because it is the reverse of what you stated here. I think if it's the same guy, he watched Isabel for a long time. He really "wanted" her. So, her abducted her under difficult circumstances.

But now the heat is on. So he chooses an area that is easier to move around in and break into homes in, without detection.

Whoever this guy is, he is very dangerous. He chose to break into a home in Tuscon, right now, when the whole town is freaked out and on alert because of Isabel. (BTW, who leaves their windows open at a time like this? Especially when there are young kids in the house?)

As to LE saying there is likely no connection, either they really, really feel Isabel's parents are involved, or they don't want a panicked public to become angry that they haven't caught a psycho running around terrorizing little girls, or they have some jerk in custody right now who they are interrogating like mad who they think molested the girls but could not have been the one who took Isa, because he was in jail at the time or something.

I'll take the second one being the most likely IMO for now. I'm not alltogether convinced they aren't related...so far from the little that has been brought forth it is the same MO. If these girls looked similar to Isabel that could be another clue too. I know that its too early to say but I'm wondering if this person, if it is the same peraon who took Isabel, was goig to maybe try to do what Richard Davis did during Polly Klaas's sleepover. I can't imagine a guy breaking in soley to molest and leave.
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[PAXIMUS]

Except LE is not telling us a thing. Maybe her parents will.



It crossed my mind yesterday too. But LE seems to be taking to very seriously, even today, so it seems there may be something to it.



What sex trade? Can you link to any mainstream media article the references the actual existence of a real sex trade involving little kids? And I don't mean troubled teens or runaways lured into truck stop prostitution or call girl scenarios. I also don't mean random cases of dirt bag parents selling their kids to someone they know for a 40 ounce or whatever.

I mean evidence of a true, shadowy, sex trade industry involving small children, in the United States, which allows people to purchase stolen children for the purposes of committing sex crimes or child *advertiser censored* or whatever.

Because I see this come up as a possibility in numerous cases but I have yet to hear of one viable case in the United States that evidences such a trade. I'm curious.

The Franklin Scandal comes to mind.

 

[Prof]

Will there be one today at 2? If so does anyone have a link? Thank you.

2 pm every day

These two stations carry live feeds

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/categor...missing-isabel
http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

 

[thefragile7393]

The Franklin Scandal comes to mind.

Which no one is completely sure if it ever really happened, especially to the degree purported if it did

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[Zuckerschnecke]

This guy is young too they say, probably been molested himself, starting early as a perp, they need to get him now before he does something even more extreme assuming he hasnt and isnt related to the Isabel case.

That is a very nice area of Tucson too, the houses are very spread out, semi-rural area just outside of the city metro area, nice homes upper middle class living, an easy place to get away with something like this because you dont generally have neighbors close by, most of the properties are probably an acre or more with a lot of space between you and the next house, it doesnt fit that he would hit that area to just molest the kids and then hit a MUCH MORE crowded area where the Celis live to do an actual abduction though.

Still I have a gut feeling it is connected.

Nothing would surprise me after Amber Dubois and Chelsea King. Two completely different methods of attacking these girls and in different settings: city near a school and then a remote trail.

 

[Patty G]

The address according to the media is around the 11100 Block E MTN GATE PL
What do you think about how they are reporting the crime on this map http://www.pimasheriff.org/prevention/crime-maps/
I don't know if there is a difference in terms for sex crimes in AZ, but they are not calling it molestation here.

What are the calling it on the map?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Ok so the Celis family/parent feel "overwhelmed," and give that as an excuse for not going public?
Well!!! I belive this is a VERY VERY VERY good time to put aside that kind of self consideration/selfishness! and think about how Isabel is feeling !!!
Its almost a WEEK!!! since they went pubclic, and police have even asked them over and over to do it again and they ...??? well I´m just plain mad now grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I´v lost sympathy for this parents, sorry to say that, I normaly dont lose my head, but that is how I feel!

:rocker: I totally agree ...

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[MaryAnn]

Except LE is not telling us a thing. Maybe her parents will.



It crossed my mind yesterday too. But LE seems to be taking to very seriously, even today, so it seems there may be something to it.



What sex trade? Can you link to any mainstream media article the references the actual existence of a real sex trade involving little kids? And I don't mean troubled teens or runaways lured into truck stop prostitution or call girl scenarios. I also don't mean random cases of dirt bag parents selling their kids to someone they know for a 40 ounce or whatever.

I mean evidence of a true, shadowy, sex trade industry involving small children, in the United States, which allows people to purchase stolen children for the purposes of committing sex crimes or child *advertiser censored* or whatever.

Because I see this come up as a possibility in numerous cases but I have yet to hear of one viable case in the United States that evidences such a trade. I'm curious.

Do you know they are a 45 min drive from Mexico? Here is just one link I found, there are many more.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/22/sex-trafficking-rampant-in-mexico-lawmaker-says/


At least 47 sex-trafficking rings are operating in Mexico and the number of victims is more than 800,000 a year, including 20,000 children, Congresswoman Rosi Orozco said.

 

[Prof]

http://www.pimasheriff.org/prevention/crime-maps/

Hmmn when you search the address it does not show the same information, but if you simply go to the link and find the address using the map alone it shows


30 Apr 2012 11100 Block E MTN GATE PL FORCIBLE RAPE - FEMALE

 

[Prof]

What are the calling it on the map?

See post 113

 

[gitana1]

The Franklin Scandal comes to mind.

Franklin child prostitution ring allegations

The Franklin child prostitution ring allegations were a series of high-profile accusations and legal actions between 1988 and 1991 surrounding an alleged child sex ring serving prominent citizens of Omaha, Nebraska, as well as high-level U.S. politicians.[1] The allegations centered on the actions of Lawrence E. King, director of the recently-collapsed Franklin Community Federal Credit Union in Omaha and a prominent local political figure. Two grand juries ruled the allegations to be false and two purported victims were indicted for perjury[2] (one was convicted and sentenced to 9–15 years in prison[3]) though numerous conspiracy theories persisted afterwards.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations#cite_note-Jenkins-0

I'm sorry to sound snarky but my question persists. I have never heard of actual, viable evidence of such a ring or industry. Conspiracy theories do not count. If there is, I would be interested to know about it.

 

[thefragile7393]

Do you know they are a 45 min drive from Mexico? Here is just one link I found, there are many more.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/22/sex-trafficking-rampant-in-mexico-lawmaker-says/

Teenagers and runaways, within mexico and imported to mexico from other latin american countries is big. Could happen to a teen here maybe whose families have ties there and to neferious activities MAYBE. Those are the stories we hear about. Yes there is sex trafficking Mexico but there is no evidence that children from America are kidnapped for sex trade there.

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[Thinkzerz]

If the parents don't come out after LE has asked them to i will be leading off the:fence: that the parents are involved. I don't care about privacy or their reasons as to not coming out. If LE is asking they should cooperate. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

I just think there are much less dangerous ways to grab children if wanted for some "ring" or other...no need to go into an occupied house in a closely-packed neighborhood with businesses nearby and the probabilility of cameras...JMO

 

[gitana1]

Do you know they are a 45 min drive from Mexico? Here is just one link I found, there are many more.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/22/sex-trafficking-rampant-in-mexico-lawmaker-says/

At least 47 sex-trafficking rings are operating in Mexico and the number of victims is more than 800,000 a year, including 20,000 children, Congresswoman Rosi Orozco said.

Tuscon may be close but it is not in Mexico. Why cross the border illegally, (or legally) search a town in the U.S. for what they want, break into that house, one with dogs and high walls, then go back across the border, one that is closed much of the night and which has surveillance, and take a kidnapped child across that border for purposes of a sex trade, all when there are tons of kids at the border running around unattended selling Chicle, or whatever who would make a much easier, undetected grab? It makes no sense to me.

 

[Patty G]

http://www.pimasheriff.org/prevention/crime-maps/

Hmmn when you search the address it does not show the same information, but if you simply go to the link and find the address using the map alone it shows


30 Apr 2012 11100 Block E MTN GATE PL FORCIBLE RAPE - FEMALE

I do not like maps because I am looking at a strange city/state that I have no clue about. About the only thing I can do in Tucson is go up and down the street near Isa's home. Other then that ... totally clueless.