GUILTY AZ - Sex abuse probe after patient in vegetative state has baby, Phoenix, 29 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

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NervousNellie said:
RBBM
Shocked is right. I still think it could be a typo. Because $15K? She needs a better attorney.
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Agree...and the baby? If Native American, and the family does not feel they can care for the baby, then it may be adopted only by Native Americans. iMO, no matter what, a trust should be set up for the baby for future needs to be used through out life with adoptive parents or family and court approval. Yes it may be a mess and work, but it’s for the baby. Again my MOO
 
MsJosie said:
Agree...and the baby? If Native American, and the family does not feel they can care for the baby, then it may be adopted only by Native Americans. iMO, no matter what, a trust should be set up for the baby for future needs to be used through out life with adoptive parents or family and court approval. Yes it may be a mess and work, but it’s for the baby. Again my MOO
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Especially if the baby is expected to have special needs.
 
Just to clarify, the lawsuit case is an entirely different case.
This case is in Arizona, with a so far healthy baby boy who's DNA will identify the rapist.
The lawsuit case is in Florida, where the woman had a miscarriage so they don't have the advantage of DNA testing.

If the current employees all check out then they would likely look at visitors or former employees. They will also utilitze familial DNA options I'm sure. Putting babies DNA into those sites may very well bring up some of his relatives, which can eventually lead to the rapist.
 
Kaie said:
Someone claiming to be a Hacienda employee, who had previously written a Google review of the facility giving it 5 stars, added an update to their review 5 days ago. Even their original post sounded like its purpose was to counteract various negative reviews (and that's all prior to this incident). The negative reviews have poured in since then of course.

The poster was using a one review account. I thought I'd share what they wrote in that update. I find the post pretty odd. They sound so much like someone whose stated connection to the facility is genuine when I look at the full post (either that or they have some connection). Point 1 is nothing like the public story and can't be entirely true, point 2 is absurd, point 3 is confusing to read but the gist is the they're unhappy about the string of negative reviews that have been posted by angry members of the public.

"UPDATE

Amidst the recent controversy, I as someone who is employed within the facilty wish to preface.

1. There was knowledge beforehand, but due to attempted investigations on an independent and private level pre-birth, due to the nature such a twisted act would cause to our public morale for not only our clients, but our employees (as evidenced here), the knowledge was not leaked to the public until days after the c-section was preformed.

2. The CEO stepping down had no correlation with the allegations, it was a planned retirement as early as late 2017.

3. "Reviews" simply highlighting said allegation, when we ourselves are working hard to solve this repulsive conflict is distasteful. It is one thing to make note of an issue or qualm personally withed in the home itself, it is another thing to simply bash on a single piece of mis-informed details that are being enforced with local police, while still trying to keep our clients in a positive state of mode."

EDIT: I actually started this forum post yesterday, and left it on my screen overnight to check it with new eyes in the morning (I was dead tired after traveling). It appears that the poster might have pulled it down, as I can't find it again now. The above post I cut and paste when I was reading the reviews through Google Maps.
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From the first time I heard this story I felt that the facility must of known about the pregnancy and orchestrated an elaborate cover up, which only fell apart when the baby was born not breathing. I think that wasn't part of their plan.

I remember reading that the patient would have been in distress and possibly moaning quite a bit, but as police stated, the 000 call was for an unresponsive new born. They waited till the baby was out and realised he/she wasn't breathing before calling 000?

I dunno. But I do know that something stinks and I wouldn't want any of my family being cared for in that facility, regardless of whether the rapist worked there or not.
 
Grapey said:
From the first time I heard this story I felt that the facility must of known about the pregnancy and orchestrated an elaborate cover up, which only fell apart when the baby was born not breathing. I think that wasn't part of their plan.

I remember reading that the patient would have been in distress and possibly moaning quite a bit, but as police stated, the 000 call was for an unresponsive new born. They waited till the baby was out and realised he/she wasn't breathing before calling 000?

I dunno. But I do know that something stinks and I wouldn't want any of my family being cared for in that facility, regardless of whether the rapist worked there or not.
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Translation on dialing "000" for non-Ozzies: it's the same as 911. :)

Source: Born & raised in Arizona, permanent resident in Australia for almost 20 years. ;)

To add a bit more of input here: Arizona is pretty tough on sex offenders. (Again, I know from personal experience as a victim.) I have every confidence that this despicable incident will be thoroughly investigated and the offender and any accomplices/co-conspirators will be prosecuted to the very extent of the law. If it's not, I'd be shocked & disgusted.

This just a heart-breaking story.
 
SunVenus said:
Translation on dialing "000" for non-Ozzies: it's the same as 911. :)

Source: Born & raised in Arizona, permanent resident in Australia for almost 20 years. ;)

To add a bit more of input here: Arizona is pretty tough on sex offenders. (Again, I know from personal experience as a victim.) I have every confidence that this despicable incident will be thoroughly investigated and the offender and any accomplices/co-conspirators will be prosecuted to the very extent of the law. If it's not, I'd be shocked & disgusted.

This just a heart-breaking story.
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Oh woops, thanks :oops:
Sometimes I forget where I am ;)

Absolutely, makes me feel ill to think how long this was going on for and how many other victims there may be.
 
@Grapey

It's absolutely disgusting to me that this crime occurred, and even worse that it's Arizona, which has far more problems than when I left. When I visit, it no longer feels like home... not even a place I'd want to call "home".

Surely there will be some good advocates for the mother and child, but I am not above writing a strongly-worded letter to the authorities if it is not pursued to the end.

What is heart-warming is the international response we are getting on this thread. It is a situation that hits all decent humans right in the heart.

Also, I too, forget where I am. :) It's taken years for me to adjust to another country, not to mention another hemisphere! Best example: driving. I am a menace on the streets of Phoenix when I go back to visit-- they drive on the wrong side of the road! LOL
 
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NervousNellie said:
RBBM
Shocked is right. I still think it could be a typo. Because $15K? She needs a better attorney.
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flute4peace said:
Yea that’s not even going to pay the attorney fees. Maybe it’s supposed to be 15M
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NervousNellie said:
That is a lot of zeros to leave out. o_O:D
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Actually, according to the original complaint, the plaintiff is requesting:

COUNT I (“VIOLATION OF SECTION 3(A) OF BILL OF RIGHTS OF PERSONS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES”):
“an award of compensatory damages against National Mentor, including the costs of this action, interest, and such other relief as the Court deems just and proper.”

There are four additional counts against National Mentor, one count against Stokes, one count against Pace, and one count against Prorock, all requesting an award of compensatory and various other damages.

CNN reports the same:
“The lawsuit asks for unspecified damages and for costs covering medical and legal expenses and money spent on moving the woman to a new facility.”
A Florida mother is suing her developmentally disabled daughter's caregiver after woman became pregnant

So yes, the total amount awarded will most likely be more like $15 million even if the parties settle (which I expect they will), IMO.

Daily Mail (and there are many others who are reporting the same) must have gotten the “$15,000” as on the first page of the complaint, it states, “This is an action for damages and other relief where the amount in controversy exceeds $15,000 ...,” explaining why the suit has been filed in a circuit court, rather than a county court.

http://74.174.28.52/BMWebLatest/ImageAsync.aspx/GetPDF?guid=cdea11bd-fa7e-4e88-bd3d-f055a83508a9

Search
 
Kaie said:
Two doctors who cared for this woman are no longer with Hacienda HealthCare. One of them resigned, and the other was suspended. The identities of those two doctors haven't been released.

Doctor who cared for Hacienda HealthCare rape victim has been suspended, another resigns
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Now I really want to know:

What prompted the resignation and suspension?

Are the doctors male or female?

Was “the woman's last court-ordered medical examination ... on April 16, 2018 — eight months and 13 days before she gave birth” performed by a physician?
Frantic 911 call nurses made as they rescued newborn after mother in vegetative state gives birth | Daily Mail Online

If so, was the doctor a male or a female?

And if so, was it one of the doctors who has been suspended or resigned (“The two physicians who were responsible for the care of the sexual assault victim“ so there is a good chance that it was, IMO)? (BBM)?
 
I would like to know all of those things too. The media are definitely working on those specific questions right now. As far as the resignation and suspension go... missing an entire pregnancy would do it. Or it could be that they're suspected of orchestrating a cover up. My mind went straight to wondering whether one or both are suspects of course... also a distinct possibility.
The difference between the one who resigned, and the one who was suspended might simply be that some people jump before they get pushed, and some don't.
 
Kaie said:
I would like to know all of those things too. The media are definitely working on those specific questions right now. As far as the resignation and suspension go... missing an entire pregnancy would do it. Or it could be that they're suspected of orchestrating a cover up. My mind went straight to wondering whether one or both are suspects of course... also a distinct possibility.
The difference between the one who resigned, and the one who was suspended might simply be that some people jump before they get pushed, and some don't.
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I also hope that LE was able to get DNA samples from these physicians before their departure from Hacienda.

I wouldn’t want them to be in a situation where they have to obtain a new, separate warrant(s).
 
I doubt that this baby was full term. A woman in a vegetative state can give birth, but the fact that this baby was born without any intervention makes me even more sure that it was not your average full term fetus or it was really small for gestational age.
No MSM have commented on the weight or approximate gestational age of the baby.
I have had a 1# 13oz baby and a 6# 8oz baby. Both vaginal births.
My preemie required no pushing at all, just a sonogram when I was fully dilated to check to see if she was still head first. My body did the rest.
My full term baby required exactly 3 pushes.
I was about 115# with my preemie and 125# with my full term baby.
They are grown now.
My preemie had a little girl in October and my full term baby is expecting his first baby (a son) in about six days! - or less.
The staff SHOULD have noticed SOMETHING different.
IMO
The accident happened in 1992, so she was over 26.
If we ever get any follow up it should be very interesting! I'd love to see the nurses notes from October through the day the baby was born!!
Moo
 
gngr~snap said:
I doubt that this baby was full term. A woman in a vegetative state can give birth, but the fact that this baby was born without any intervention makes me even more sure that it was not your average full term fetus or it was really small for gestational age.
No MSM have commented on the weight or approximate gestational age of the baby.
I have had a 1# 13oz baby and a 6# 8oz baby. Both vaginal births.
My preemie required no pushing at all, just a sonogram when I was fully dilated to check to see if she was still head first. My body did the rest.
My full term baby required exactly 3 pushes.
I was about 115# with my preemie and 125# with my full term baby.
They are grown now.
My preemie had a little girl in October and my full term baby is expecting his first baby (a son) in about six days! - or less.
The staff SHOULD have noticed SOMETHING different.
IMO
The accident happened in 1992, so she was over 26.
If we ever get any follow up it should be very interesting! I'd love to see the nurses notes from October through the day the baby was born!!
Moo
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I have been thinking about this. Would her injury make it so that she would not feel the pain of a vaginal birth- kind of like an epidural? If it would, I could definitely see her body pushing baby out on it's own or nearly on it's own. My body did the majority of the work for my kids (two were 8lbs and the other was just under 9lbs). I had half their heads out with two kids when the doctor's walked in.

Not to take away from the fact that staff should have noticed her pregnancy. I just wonder if it is possible to have walked in and baby was nearly out. MOO
 
Kaie said:
This would not be a tough case for a forensic genealogist, if authorities were willing to go that route. The field of suspects would already be narrowed to those who had access to her (either as employees or visitors to the facility). Genealogists who work on criminal cases have had success starting with a lot less.
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The child's DNA will reveal the father. I agree they need to investigate this asap!
 
x_files said:
The child's DNA will reveal the father. I agree they need to investigate this asap!
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It's a little frustrating for me now that I have been following the case so closely, and the skills to identify the father of a baby through autosomal DNA are ones that I actually possess. I hope I make it into forensic genealogy myself at some stage.
I have been a victim in the past (something I am, at times, vocal about in other social media). There has been a bit of a movement fighting back against victims in my country recently, that seems particularly aimed at tearing down the Me Too movement. I see so many posts on Twitter that are victim blaming, referring to "fake rape culture", or calling the stand that victims (of any gender) have united and taken in recent times a "witch hunt". The same social media posters (some very high profile btw) don't comment at all when there is a case like this. They can't keep up their usual arguments at times like this, so they act like it didn't even happen. Clearly this woman wasn't raped because she wore a short skirt, had too much to drink, willingly went to a hotel room (or anything else on the long list of things that are argued by defence teams). She was raped because there was a rapist in her presence... which is actually the same reason that anyone is raped. It's a horrendous story because of her inability to fight back, and because she was in a facility where her care and safety should have been paramount... but all rapists are opportunistic. It's a vile and despicable act, and those who target women who do have a fighting chance, but still manage to overpower them, are no better.
Anyway, I'm just dying to see an arrest in this case, but it may take some time.
 
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Kaie said:
It's a little frustrating for me now that I have been following the case so closely, and the skills to identify the father of a baby through autosomal DNA are ones that I actually possess. I hope I make it into forensic genealogy myself at some stage.
I have been a victim in the past (something I am, at times, vocal about in other social media). There has been a bit of a movement fighting back against victims in my country recently, that seems particularly aimed at tearing down the Me Too movement. I see so many posts on Twitter that are victim blaming, referring to "fake rape culture", or calling the stand that victims (of any gender) have united and taken in recent times a "witch hunt". The same social media posters (some very high profile btw) don't comment at all when there is a case like this. They can't keep up their usual arguments at times like this, so they act like it didn't even happen. Clearly this woman wasn't raped because she wore a short skirt, had too much to drink, willingly went to a hotel room (or anything else on the long list of things that are argued by defence teams). She was raped because there was a rapist in her presence... which is actually the same reason that anyone is raped. It's a horrendous story because of her inability to fight back, and because she was in a facility where her care and safety should have been paramount... but all rapists are opportunistic. It's a vile and despicable act, and those who target women who did have a fighting chance, but still manage to overpower them, are no better.
Anyway, I'm just dying to see an arrest in this case, but it may take some time.
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*stands and applauds*
 
I worked in a long term adult state mental hospital, as well as a Residential Drug and Alcohol treatment facility. I can say, from my personal experience...(the 2 years I was at the state mental facility), we did have a male tech who was caught screwing a grown, married woman, who was schizophrenic. They fired him. But as far as 15 minute checks 24/7, sometimes when things get busy, you split up some of the duties, so different people may be doing the 15 minute checks, or if someone was just in the area, some techs would just ask, "so, is patient 1234 safe in their room?". So I can totally see how this could have happened. I believe it WAS an employee with this poor woman. They will catch him, no problem. Its just as bad as abusing a child when you abuse a mentally ill person, or severely handicapped person! Praying for a quick resolution.
 
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