Bosma Murder Trial 04.28.16 - Day 42

[Kamille]

When someone has been in jail for 3 years they get open visits from family members. Most people who go to jail aren't there for very long and it would not be considered to be cruel and unusual punishment to deny open visits. But for anyone there more than 6 months, any lawyer worth his salt is going to get open visits for family members.

These letters seem to have been moved in the first 6 months he was there. And I would hope once LE discovered them, that DM was denied any chance of open family visits.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

No, she's the one transporting the letters

Based on DM and visitors being separated by the glass, I don't know how MB would have been transporting the letters. Based on lawyers and inmates being able to meet in private, I've always suspected that letters/envelopes DM addressed envelopes to his mother and they were delivered via lawyer du jour. JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Great little quote from DM's mouth:

Bringing Andrew back to my side, brings me back from losing, and puts me at a tie.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...per-spy-scheme-to-save-him-from-life-sentence

 

[toom]

I'm not sure why you think there's any animosity coming from me, but the size and seriousness of this case is not unusual. Three crown prosecutors is unusual.

To be fair, the amount of public scrutiny surrounding this trial is unusual.

 

[Stirner]

That's an interesting thought. DO you have a source for this?

All I can find in a hurry is about Edmonton's remand, but I'm fairly certain it's standard in all Canadian remands:

"Inmates who have been in custody for 60 days or longer and who have demonstrated “positive institutional behavior” may apply for in-person visits with immediate family for “compassionate reasons,” - http://globalnews.ca/news/1814701/david-milgaard-disgusted-by-visitation-system-at-edmonton-remand/

But if this is actually accurate, the letters that are being talked about that were said to be sent through MB happened during the first 6 months of his time in jail so that is the question being asked about how she exchanged the letters

Except I was just guessing at 6 months, turns out it's 2 months, according to the article quoted above...

 

[swedie]

And not one of DM's "friends" came forward in almost three years or in their testimony to say DM told them this is how it went down and it was MS who shot and killed TB...hmmm. DM you manipulated many people in your free life but the game is over. If he didn't shoot TB, he would have told at least one person out of the bunch of goons knowing they could help him out if need be. DM had AM, MH, SS and/or CN, he even could have told MM May 7th, while having a party in the driver's seat, but he didn't. NOT ONE single person did he confide in. What was the big secret?! They all knew he was a big time thief and had warped thinking. He knew by May 9th, it was only a matter of time before he was taken into custody. He told no one because he knew he was the one who pulled the trigger and murdered TB. If it was anyone else in DM's position, they would have told their nearest and dearest friend exactly what happened. They would have done it with the hope that friend could vouch for them.

DM is a sly, conceiving and manipulating psycho. He knew exactly what he was doing by writing those letters to CN. He had to get someone to bring forth the information (LIE) it was MS who shot TB. He knew he had to throw a life preserver out there and CN was his best and only hope because he knew he could manipulate her easier then any of the others by professing his undying love for her, how much he missed her, she'd be the one to have his babies, blah, blah, blah. And I would not be surprised if MH and AM were keeping their distance from MB, BUT CN felt a need to continue to connect with the distraught mother of her lover or vice versa. Yeah he sucked her in hoping she would hang onto his letters, LE would find them and they would be presented in court, just as it's happening now, and with that one letter, his claim MS did it, would be out there and it would cause a whole lot of reasonable doubt in the jurors minds. Sorry DM you're transparent and sick minded. ALL MOO.

 

[Stirner]

To be fair, the amount of public scrutiny surrounding this trial is unusual.

Yes, and I think that's why they want to make sure they get a conviction, and they obviously feel they need three people working on it in order to increase their odds of getting a conviction. They have three prosecutors so that they can double and triple-check the work, considerably lessening the chance of a screw-up.

 

[SnooperDuper]

More from DM:

"When I was first brought in they treated me as though I were Hannibal Lecter," Millard writes on July 25, 2013. "Paraded down the halls in chains and surrounded on all sides by a team of guards. I supose (sic) the attention should have been flattering. For the first two weeks I was kept naked in a bare video recorded cell, and given only bread and jam to eat."

Millard claims a psychiatrist did this as "part of his pet project to figure me out." But "he applied such great pressure in his quest to crack my spirit — what he accomplished was hardening me, like loose carbon turned to diamond."

At one point, in his segregation cell, he wept. "I wiped away the first tears with a forearm and the words tattooed there immediately jumped out … 'I am heaven sent, don't you dare forget.'"

I think this is sheer fantasy

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...al-millard-s-ego-is-healthy-even-behind-bars/

 

[Stirner]

Not at all. In fact, when reporter Molly Hayes did her interview with DM at the Barton Street jail, it was glass and telephone:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4075078-exclusive-jail-visits-with-bosma-s-accused-killers/

<modsnip> I said they are a tv/movie CLICHE to explain to people here why they EXPECT glass walls and telephones to always be in place.

 

[ezuke]

I'm still reading, but I am so frustrated thus far with CN and her testimony that I am compelled to respond before I've finished reading the comments from all you good people, so I apologise if these things have already been covered.

re: CN's notes and her not recalling when she wrote it, but being sure her notes were out of order. How is that even possible? If you know something is out of sequence then you must have a rough idea of the time line of when you wrote it.

re: CN and MB not calling the police about the trailer considering, you know, DM was arrested for stealing a truck and forcible confinement. Seems like the next logical thought would be that TB/TB's truck could very well be in the trailer, and we touched it/have knowledge of it, so we should call the police; especially for the allegedly intelligent, CN (who is not super smart, cause if she were she would've gone to U of T (sorry, not sorry)). No. Instead she thinks it's a good idea to tamper with evidence. Jesus. This girl is the worst advertisement for York U in the world.

re: not having any clue what time she was anywhere the night she and DM moved the eliminator/went to MB's house/Hagerman's house (May 9?), nor a rough idea of how long it takes to get to Milton. As if you don't flick your eyes to your phone/the dashboard to check the time occasionally, or have an idea of how long it takes to get places you go frequently. Please.

This girl is really too much. Much too much. Have a little integrity, lady.

 

[Sillybilly]

Cross-exam?? CN is a crown witness, the defense would be the ones cross-examining her, yet the questions in your 'cross exam' are all about trying to get CN to implicate the defendants. Incidentally, I doubt any of your questions except the last two would have been allowed, they're all leading.

Thursday morning the Crown said they were making application to have CN declared a hostile witness. When that happens, the Crown can then cross-examine their own witness and ask them leading questions.

 

[swedie]

Alex Pierson, Reporter covering the Tim Bosma trial for AM900 CHML

https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/christina-nougda-returned-to-the-stand-today-in-the-tim-bosma-trial

 

[Stirner]

Thursday morning the Crown said they were making application to have CN declared a hostile witness. When that happens, the Crown can then cross-examine their own witness and them leading questions.

You mean if it's granted, and there's a pretty good chance it won't be as the crown would have had to have demonstrated in their questioning of CN today that she is in fact a hostile witness. But so-called 'brilliant' crown attorney Tony Leitch, in his zeal to try to demonstrate CN's hostility wound up badgering her for 6 minutes over an error in his own notes he eventually had to admit to when Judge Goodman realized and mentioned it... so, good luck with that, Tony!

 

[Stirner]

DM... was the one who pulled the trigger and murdered TB. .

As I stated in the poll thread, I find it very strange that the majority of people here seem to think DM pulled the gun, when all the facts suggest it was MS. When DM and MS went on the test drive, DM was driving, and MS was in the back seat, while TB was in the passenger seat. TB was shot while he sat in the passenger seat. The cartridge was found in the back. All the evidence points toward the person in the back seat being the shooter. If DM had pulled a gun TB would have noticed, possibly try to grab it and fight. He'd never be able to get off a single clean fatal headshot. Only one shot was fired. MS would just have to point a gun at TB's head and shoot without TB ever being aware of what was about to happen. It's quite obvious MS pulled the trigger. Who raps about his gun and using it on people who make him 'angry', DM or MS? MS, that's who. Both these guys are total cowards, they would never confront someone with a gun, they would shoot from behind, and only one of them was behind.

I think the only thing that makes people think DM pulled the gun is schadenfreude. It feels better for some people to want the spoiled rich kid to go to prison for a long time, rather than the troubled loser. And they don't want the spoiled rich kid to 'get away' with anything, since he's obviously a thief and a narcissitic jerk.

And that brings up my other point. Unless the crown can prove a conspiracy to commit murder, rather than a truck robbery gone wrong, then only one person can be found guilty of murder, due to the fact that only one shot was fired. So unless the crown proves that they had planned to commit a murder, only one of them can be found guilty of murder.

 

[Martha Morris]

Alex Pierson, Reporter covering the Tim Bosma trial for AM900 CHML

https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/christina-nougda-returned-to-the-stand-today-in-the-tim-bosma-trial

Many thanks for that - a really interesting listen and it gives you a much better idea of the dynamics in court.

It's 9.30am in the morning here in the UK and I'm a self-employed designer, sitting at my computer, sipping coffee and listening to a Canadian radio station. My daughter has just walked in, shook her head in bemusement ... and walked out again. I love Websleuths!!

 

[swedie]

As I stated in the poll thread, I find it very strange that the majority of people here seem to think DM pulled the gun, when all the facts suggest it was MS. When DM and MS went on the test drive, DM was driving, and MS was in the back seat, while TB was in the passenger seat. TB was shot while he sat in the passenger seat. The cartridge was found in the back. All the evidence points toward the person in the back seat being the shooter. If DM had pulled a gun TB would have noticed, possibly try to grab it and fight. He'd never be able to get off a single clean fatal headshot. Only one shot was fired. MS would just have to point a gun at TB's head and shoot without TB ever being aware of what was about to happen. It's quite obvious MS pulled the trigger. Who raps about his gun and using it, DM or MS?

And that brings up my other point. Unless the crown can prove a conspiracy to commit murder, rather than a truck robbery gone wrong, then only one person can be found guilty of murder, due to the fact that only one shot was fired. So unless the crown proves that they had planned to commit a murder, only one of them can be found guilty of murder.

From very early on in this case, it's believed there was a struggle inside TB truck. Do you know for a fact TB was only shot once? Could you provide a link stating that? TIA. In that dark, grainy, video captured from the Bobcat dealership, the forensic expert said he heard two bangs. He did not say they were gun shots but it is a possibility. Wouldn't you suspect had TB only been shot once, the perps would have made sure to search high and low on the interior of TB's truck making sure they didn't leave that one casing behind? DM could have had the gun and his cell phone inside his man purse and made some comment about pulling over to make a call and instead pulled out the gun. Perhaps TB wasn't even looking at DM when it happened. DM seems to be the more evil of the two. And a psychopath to boot.

It is apparent DM was the shooter and MS was outside TB's truck or in the Yukon when TB was shot. There was no blood found in the Yukon. Had MS been in the back seat behind TB when he was shot, MS would have been covered in blood and would have no doubt transferred blood to the Yukon. It appears MS was on a mission with DM, and his role was going to be the driver of the Yukon. If DM didn't need someone to drive his Yukon away from the area of a crime scene, DM IMO would have carried out the theft alone. DM is the one who wanted the truck, not MS. DM is a control freak and would have wanted to do "the job" himself rather than put trust in someone who was a drunkard and pothead. DM is also being charged with two other murders, MS one. DM had the audacity to put a gun to his own father's head and pull the trigger. ALL MOO.

Also according to the source, police said after Bosma&#8217;s body was found that they believed he was killed in his truck following a struggle.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2013/05/17/tim-bosma-was-likely-killed-in-his-truck-source.html

 

[Typhoo1961]

Many thanks for that - a really interesting listen and it gives you a much better idea of the dynamics in court.

It's 9.30am in the morning here in the UK and I'm a self-employed designer, sitting at my computer, sipping coffee and listening to a Canadian radio station. My daughter has just walked in, shook her head in bemusement ... and walked out again. I love Websleuths!!

I hope this is allowed but here are the links for the radio station.
Scroll down the page a wee bit and you'll find the sound clips
for the trial mixed in with other sound clips for the shows.
I live in Hamilton and listen to these shows every day.
I keep these links in my bookmarks filed under 'Wireless'.

http://www.900chml.com/bill-kelly/

http://www.900chml.com/scott-thompson/

 

[Stirner]

From very early on in this case, it's believed there was a struggle inside TB truck. Do you know for a fact TB was only shot once? Could you provide a link stating that?

hmm I can't think of why I am under the impression there was only one shot. So for now we'll just have to assume we don't know how many shots were fired.

Wouldn't you suspect had TB only been shot once, the perps would have made sure to search high and low on the interior of TB's truck making sure they didn't leave that one casing behind?

I would expect them to search the truck for the casings for as many shots were fired. The one casing that was found wasn't found by the police who searched the vehicle thoroughly, so it is not surprising that the perpetrators were unable to find it.

DM could have had the gun and his cell phone inside his man purse and made some comment about pulling over to make a call and instead pulled out the gun. Perhaps TB wasn't even looking at DM when it happened. DM seems to be the more evil of the two. And a psychopath to boot.

Personally I think MS is far creepier. And as I stated, I think both of them are far too cowardly to confront anyone with a gun.

It is apparent DM was the shooter and MS was outside TB's truck or in the Yukon when TB was shot.

How is that apparent? I've heard this theory before but where does it come from? Is this the crown's theory?

There was no blood found in the Yukon. Had MS been in the back seat behind TB when he was shot, MS would have been covered in blood and would have no doubt transferred blood to the Yukon.

There would only be blood all over a backseat-sitting MS if DM did the shooting, which is why you have to place MS outside the truck for this scenario to work. If MS does the shooting from behind, then all the blood and detritus would be sprayed forward, all over the dash where investigators conveniently found lots of blood in the grooves in the dash. In fact he probably shot from the back left, and the bullet, after exiting TB's head shattered the passenger window. That way there would be no blood on either MS or DM, although their ears would be ringing like crazy.

It appears MS was on a mission with DM, and his role was going to be the driver of the Yukon. If DM didn't need someone to drive his Yukon away from the area of a crime scene, DM IMO would have carried out the theft alone.

I doubt it, he's too cowardly to do any of his 'missions' by himself. And obviously someone would be needed to drive their transportation to the truck theft back, after stealing the truck...

DM is the one who wanted the truck, not MS.

Well if that's what you're going on for the motive of the murder, then you must believe that this wasn't a truck robbery gone wrong, but rather a plan to kill a guy for a truck.

DM is also being charged with two other murders, MS one. DM had the audacity to put a gun to his own father's head and pull the trigger.

Oh I agree that DM committed those two murders, and I do think he was prepared to commit another if he had to, I just find the evidence of the TB murder pointing toward MS. MS would have been well aware of how 'easily' DM disposed of the previous two bodies and 'got away' with it. He may have been under the impression that DM could clean up any murder and I think he really wanted to commit one, as he fancied himself a hardass, which DM at least did not... MWJ, who furnished DM with his gun, is by far the creepiest character in this whole case and DM met him through MS. MS wanted his girlfriend to become a stripper like MWJ's girlfriend (MWJ worked as a bouncer at that strip bar). MWJ was MS's role model, he wanted to be like MWJ

You're right though, there is better reason to suggest DM's guilt than I suggested in the post you're replying to here.

Also according to the source, police said after Bosma&#8217;s body was found that they believed he was killed in his truck following a struggle.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2013/05/17/tim-bosma-was-likely-killed-in-his-truck-source.html

Well I don't see how they could determine that, especially so early. I think that was just conjecture, meaning that TB didn't willingly give his truck up but was killed in a truck robbery.

 

[Stirner]

DM is the one who wanted the truck, not MS.

Incidentally, as you point out, DM is the one who wanted the truck so why wouldn't MS bail as soon as DM shot TB? Why would he stick around and help with the incinerating of the body and the laborious all-night process of trying to clean the truck, burn the seats, etc?

 

[andreww]

A hand writing analyst with this much material to work with would have little trouble finding the author to be DM. And the last thing DM's side needs is another forensic expert pointing the finger at them. So it's my opinion that admitting to the letters is a cooperative move on evidence that is impossible to defend.

Sure he could deny it, would just mean they'd subpoena his mom to testify against him.