Bosma Murder Trial 05.16.16 - Day 49

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I can only guess he meant "'s coming to get me", not in the plural sense. His grammar hasn't been impeccable so it's anyone's guess. IMO.

but his statement was this and it was after DM was arrested. Before DM was arrested he claimed he was acting casual and playing along..so up until after DM's arrest no one was after him. So conveniently today in court he tells the Jury that coming to get him was DM.

Apr 5 2016 2:43 PM"These guys don't **** around, they're going to find me. He said he f---ked up," Daly says about a conversation with Smich. "I f---ked up man, I f---ked up man," he says Smich said.
 
I feel like MS was the "outsider" in DM's circle. He's to DM like Arthur was to MS. IMO

The main players:
SS - trusty sidekick mechanic who saw nothing
MH - longtime family friend
AM - DM's bestie with the matchy match tats
CN - his lying gf
LW - his thing on the side
MB - well she just makes me sick

Then there's MS
BD - bestie
Arthur - guy they felt sorry for
MM - gf who bailed as soon as he was arrested.

Although I don't know that I 100% believe MS yet at this point. I do think he was the tag along that DM felt "sorry" for.

Good analysis .... and yes about MS , DM seemed to hang with him least of all and only when he needed something.
 
What is unclear to me is how anyone, specifically AM and/or MS were notified that MH had the toolbox. Conceivably, only DM, CN and MH knew this. In any case, it's clear AM and MH were more than happy to rid themselves of the weed and toolbox, 1) protecting DM and 2) if MS wanted them, all the better. If I was around, as AM was, to overhear the planning of the truck theft, and then one of the guys is subsequently arrested, I'd be more than happy to dump anything illegal on the second guy, if for no other reason but to say "you deal with it".
My smoking gun comment wasn't meant in opposition of this, because i do agree, just that maybe the opportunity was to dump it and possibly MS didn't know. except for that thing...
 
but his statement was this and it was after DM was arrested. Before DM was arrested he claimed he was acting casual and playing along..so up until after DM's arrest no one was after him. So conveniently today in court he tells the Jury that coming to get him was DM.

Apr 5 2016 2:43 PM"These guys don't **** around, they're going to find me. He said he f---ked up," Daly says about a conversation with Smich. "I f---ked up man, I f---ked up man," he says Smich said.
To me that could mean DM's little posse.
After all if you believe MS. He never asked for the gun. It was dumped on him. By who? A DM groupie AM. I feel a little bit of frame the loser with the criminal record going on..
 
I think if he wanted to finally give up the location realizing it is in his best interest, he wouldn't just say idk he would say, well, I think I went this way, it was dark, I put my bike against a tree...or whatever--anything but I don't remember.

Well, if he really doesn't remember I have no doubt his attorney would tell him not to play around like that and give potentially false, leading statements. He'd likely tell him to state that he does not remember and leave it at that. Which is more or less what he did.
 
To me that could mean DM's little posse.
After all if you believe MS. He never asked for the gun. It was dumped on him. By who? A DM groupie AM. I feel a little bit of frame the loser with the criminal record going on..

Except I'm not even sure AM knew the gun was in the tool box. From all accounts it was common knowledge among those who hung out with DM that drugs were kept in there, so when MS asked for the drugs, it makes sense the weed and the magic tool box would both be left for him to go collect.
 
To me that could mean DM's little posse.
After all if you believe MS. He never asked for the gun. It was dumped on him. By who? A DM groupie AM. I feel a little bit of frame the loser with the criminal record going on..

then why this text from Smich to Michalski if he knew nothing about the toolbox?

Smich (Meneses phone) texts Michalski: "Tell him were [sic] its at and ask him to bring it to me with the other thing."

Apr 5 2016 3:56 PM Pillay asking if Smich told Daly the gun belonged to him. He says yes.

Apr 5 2016 1:06 PM "Like I said, he said that the bullets went with a gun that he wanted, but he ended up with a different gun, and that gun ended up in the toolbox."

there were many texts between Smich and Michalski...I don't think he felt he was a threat and I'm pretty sure Hagerman was not a threat..so what friends were a threat?
 
I'm thinking that if MH and AM were told by DM directly or indirectly via the post-arrest grapevine that MS had shot TB on the test drive and DM was shocked, that his 2 friends AM and MH could have believed this is what happened so agreed to get the drugs and gun(s) to MS to protect DM. That is not actually trying to frame MS if they really believed that it was MS who was responsible for getting their good friend DM in trouble. It's not what I believe, but it's a plausible angle.

All MOO.
 
I wonder if MS will use the "nobody ever got hurt" line at LB's murder trial?

Not buying his amnesia. He is not even attempting to tell them which direction he went. His memory is little too good at pointing the finger at DM, and exponentially worse proportional to his involvement.

I did get chuckle when Sachak asked him why he broke into the toolbox. He said he forgot or didn't know the combo. Sachak was referring to a lock means stay out, but that is not something considered by a career thief and drug addict. LOL

He also said Arthur was a good boy. Even if Arthur was arrested for beating up and robbing someone.

On Wednesday he gave the sob story about caring for his mom. Yet he was rarely there. How do I know? He didn't have time to clean his room. At least he left her a gun to protect herself when he was sleeping at DM;s or MM's sister's.

MOO
 
My smoking gun comment wasn't meant in opposition of this, because i do agree, just that maybe the opportunity was to dump it and possibly MS didn't know. except for that thing...
I don't think any one of them knew there was a gun in the toolbox and there was no framing happening at this time. I also think that if MS didn't come asking for "all of the drugs" they would have made there way to him anyways. JMO. I don't consider it framing if you willing participate in a crime (stealing of the truck) and then people dump incriminating stuff of you when the heat is on. I'm not sure I'm making my point clearly.
 
but his statement was this and it was after DM was arrested. Before DM was arrested he claimed he was acting casual and playing along..so up until after DM's arrest no one was after him. So conveniently today in court he tells the Jury that coming to get him was DM.

Apr 5 2016 2:43 PM"These guys don't **** around, they're going to find me. He said he f---ked up," Daly says about a conversation with Smich. "I f---ked up man, I f---ked up man," he says Smich said.

Fair. I still don't know who he meant though. Could be:

--DM and his friends (AM etc)
--MWJ
--Police

Or he could have just been expressing his fear of being caught in "street" terms. He knew something bad was coming but maybe wasn't going to admit what. So he made up the gangsta equivalent of the 'mysterious dark-haired stranger'--some vague group of bad guys after him.
 
then why this text from Smich to Michalski if he knew nothing about the toolbox?

Smich (Meneses phone) texts Michalski: "Tell him were [sic] its at and ask him to bring it to me with the other thing."

Apr 5 2016 3:56 PM Pillay asking if Smich told Daly the gun belonged to him. He says yes.

Apr 5 2016 1:06 PM "Like I said, he said that the bullets went with a gun that he wanted, but he ended up with a different gun, and that gun ended up in the toolbox."

there were many texts between Smich and Michalski...I don't think he felt he was a threat and I'm pretty sure Hagerman was not a threat..so what friends were a threat?

The other "thing" is where DM kept those Orange Guys MS was so fond of.

MOO
 
then why this text from Smich to Michalski if he knew nothing about the toolbox?

Smich (Meneses phone) texts Michalski: "Tell him were [sic] its at and ask him to bring it to me with the other thing."

Apr 5 2016 3:56 PM Pillay asking if Smich told Daly the gun belonged to him. He says yes.

Apr 5 2016 1:06 PM "Like I said, he said that the bullets went with a gun that he wanted, but he ended up with a different gun, and that gun ended up in the toolbox."

there were many texts between Smich and Michalski...I don't think he felt he was a threat and I'm pretty sure Hagerman was not a threat..so what friends were a threat?

IMO I think the gun was dumped on MS. If you recall MS said "bring me all the drugs". And DM's letter said to CN. "Mark should have bring me all the drugs tattooed on his forehead". At this point I don't believe he ever asked for the gun or knew it was in the toolbox. The toolbox was for drugs and everyone knew it. Personally I think the toolbox was for the harder drugs but that's JMO. I think people knew when the toolbox came out at parties it was the "good stuff".

I don't think overall DM's friends were a threat and MS was afraid of them on a daily basis. But after the murder I do think it's possible to become paranoid of everyone.
And really. DM writing about framing MS and getting away with murder, just feeds right into MS' testimony.
 
I'd like someone to ask MS what is the orange guy and why he asked DM to bring it? I've never thought it meant drugs because I'd think if it was he'd have asked for more than one.

All MOO.
 
Further to that, another thing that frequently happens (in everyday life, as well as in witness testimony, where it is a regular problem) is conflation of different, related memories.

To illustrate, let me refer to a different unsolved crime. When little Christine Jessop disappeared from Queensville in 1984 (story here for anyone who is interested and/or doesn't remember the details: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...l-hoping-for-justice-30-years-later-1.2784486 ) , the initial investigation was, by today's standards, not well done. But, neighbours, townspeople, playmates etc. were interviewed, and a tentative outline of Christine's movements that afternoon was pieced together.

As in most cases, people came forward after the publicity about the missing child to share what they knew, or thought they knew. But there were inconsistencies: reports that Christine bought bubble gum at the store at a certain time; a driver at the light who was sure he saw Christine talking to an older boy (a teenager) on the corner; a couple who thought they saw a child struggling with a driver in a car, and who followed that car for a few blocks because they were suspicious, and so on. Trouble was, in some cases, it appeared (in hindsight) that people had conflated real memories of seeing Christine, or a child similar, but had the day wrong (in some cases) or the time of day, in others. There were similar problems with witness evidence trying to pin down what happened to little Nicole Morin, who went missing in 1985 from her apartment building on the West Mall. It's seems fairly certain that some of the accounts mixed up the day they saw Nicole, or the time of day.

In both these cases (and in many, many more - the Truscott case was full of such problems), witnesses are honestly reporting what they remember, but (hammering my cognitive science research here) because when they say what they saw at the time, when they didn't realize its significance and it wasn't something they paid close attention to, they got some of the details wrong, even if the memory itself was valid.

Witnesses, and the rest of us, are also prone to conflating memories, that is putting together in our recollection two things that actually happened, and that are connected, but not in precisely the way they happened. For example, I might remember vividly a conversation with a colleague and correctly recall the gist of what was discussed, but mistakenly think it occurred at a meeting we both attended instead of in the workplace. I "conflated," that is, merged together, two legitimate memories into one, which normally doesn't matter, but it can be very important if dates/times and locales are critical.

This is something pretty well everyone does, because our brains try to be efficient and put related things together for easier access, like a database. Paradoxically, recalling and relating these memories verbally tends to cement errors in our recollections, rather than remove errors; our conflated memory "overwrites" the original events.

I'm sure some lies were going around, but I expect many of what sound like lies (especially ones, as for example MM's recollection of how she heard about DM's arrest) may better be explained by our tendency to mis-remember such things and/or conflate related memories together.For example, MM may correctly remember seeing something about DM's arrest on TV, also remember having some sort of argument with MS about DM around the same time and put those two together and felt certain it happened on the Friday (IIRC) which most have agreed could not have been the case because the arrest was not on TV that night. She might, however, remember it that way, and be telling the truth in that sense.

Not to say some testimony is not lying, but I think there are almost certainly many errors of memory that are honest. And you can be sure the witness doesn't think they are errors! We rarely notice our own errors in everyday life unless something corrects us, like checking our datebooks or calendars and realizing, oh, that didn't happen on day x, it was day y.

Very good post. And with Dungey being the great lawyer he is, I feel he would have told Mark, unless you know 100% what you are saying is true, and you will recall it this way today tomorrow or a year from now, say you don't know. It's clear that Sachak is asking the same questions many ways, hoping to catch MS, but it isn't working, and Sachak is clearly getting frustrated by this. Does it mean that Mark is telling the truth, or that he has just been well prepared by Dungey? It's up to the jury to decide.
 
Except I'm not even sure AM knew the gun was in the tool box. From all accounts it was common knowledge among those who hung out with DM that drugs were kept in there, so when MS asked for the drugs, it makes sense the weed and the magic tool box would both be left for him to go collect.
Well MH and AM had a falling out because of "lies that were told". I think one of them knew the gun was in the toolbox before giving it to Smitch.

Especially since it was dropped at MH house in the middle of the night. When you've just committed murder or been a part of it the first reaction from DM is to get rid of the drugs? Not buying it.

Personally I think a toolbox full of drugs and a toolbox with a gun would feel very different. And the question was asked. What's in here, a gun?

Then the paranoia sets in. Why did no one want to meet up or GO to MS if it was just some weed? The cowards left it in a stairwell which wasn't even where MS said to leave it. If it's just weed, what's the big deal?

Jmo
 
He's just trying to establish to the jury that MS and DM were close like brothers and that MS looked up to DM like a big brother. So of course DM had to help him out with his mess. It's like a mother telling a child, "tell your father what you did today" when they have done something wrong. LOL Or trying to make the jury think that an appeal from DM means that he is disappointed in MS for not telling the truth.

MOO

Maybe there were two guns and DM has one gun and MS has the other. If MS remembers where he buried the gun DM will come up with the one he has with MS fingerprints all over it that matches the casing found in the truck. (MS did say he thought DM was trying to frame him). I know this is far fetched.
 
Very good post. And with Dungey being the great lawyer he is, I feel he would have told Mark, unless you know 100% what you are saying is true, and you will recall it this way today tomorrow or a year from now, say you don't know. It's clear that Sachak is asking the same questions many ways, hoping to catch MS, but it isn't working, and Sachak is clearly getting frustrated by this. Does it mean that Mark is telling the truth, or that he has just been well prepared by Dungey? It's up to the jury to decide.

I don't think MS possesses a great deal of intellectual prowess. Sachack on the other hand, is well trained in what he's doing. Yet somehow he can't get MS to change his story. Not even slightly. To me, this lends a great deal of credibility to the idea that MS isn't actually lying.
 
Very good post. And with Dungey being the great lawyer he is, I feel he would have told Mark, unless you know 100% what you are saying is true, and you will recall it this way today tomorrow or a year from now, say you don't know. It's clear that Sachak is asking the same questions many ways, hoping to catch MS, but it isn't working, and Sachak is clearly getting frustrated by this. Does it mean that Mark is telling the truth, or that he has just been well prepared by Dungey? It's up to the jury to decide.

Yes it is, and it is the crown's responsibility to prove guilt. Which they have.

They will be instructed by the judge, and he did say that sympathy is not to be considered on day #1. Most of MS's testimony is exactly that, a story to garner sympathy. Tell me any actual evidence he has handed over besides weaving his innocence with the evidence he sat through listening to for the last few months?

MOO
 
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