Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #13

[EspressoBean]

What I want to know is how is mad at who and why??

AM and MH don't speak as testified because MH made it sound like they have a difference of opinion with DM and what went down? Who didn't agree with who and why???

If AM said don't speak....why would MH get made.,,, it took him like 5 statements to say anything???

If MH said don't speak....AM wouldn't at that point (when they met for drop off) know he was going to get hauled in...so ok make a pact?

Did AM not hold the pact and MH got mad after the statement AM gave???

Why do they not speak with CN???

It seems that AM and MM are still friends...MM said so.

What a tangled web and so many players are involved.

We can probably all think of examples when something that might have been quite minor in comparison, pulled apart friendships. Either ones we have been involved in or ones we have witnessed.
I can imagine that it makes sense that something of this caliber would pull apart friends even without the pressure of having to witness or give statements.
It was one messed up situation. AM and MH had both been involved in criminal activity with DM and then he is arrested and later charged with murder.
AM was put through the ringer - talked about in the media, on this site, on social media. He was accused and assumed to be involved in TB's murder by many (including those that knew him) and he was actually arrested for it prior to MS's arrest.
I don't think anyone could unravel the mess that happened between all of those friends. The more they talked to each other, the messier it would have become. I don't know we have heard that anyone was necessarily mad at each other but it was said that they didn't agree on things and went their separate ways.

 

[RandomName479]

What I want to know is how is mad at who and why??

AM and MH don't speak as testified because MH made it sound like they have a difference of opinion with DM and what went down? Who didn't agree with who and why???

If AM said don't speak....why would MH get made.,,, it took him like 5 statements to say anything???

If MH said don't speak....AM wouldn't at that point (when they met for drop off) know he was going to get hauled in...so ok make a pact?

Did AM not hold the pact and MH got mad after the statement AM gave???

Why do they not speak with CN???

It seems that AM and MM are still friends...MM said so.

What a tangled web and so many players are involved.

MOO - but to me it seems like AM and MM were the most honest and forthcoming of the DM/MS group of friends (it's all relative.....) I think these 2 showed composure but empathy on the stand (yes they all lied to some extent)......I think they may have stayed in contact/reconnected but have cut out the friends who remained loyal to DM and continue to lie to cover things up.....

 

[ezuke]

Since I think they're both guilty I think it would be foolish for either of them to testify, as much as I would like them to for the Bosma's sake. Although, that would assume they would tell the truth, which I think MS would come closer to than DM, but I'm not at all confident about that.

I just can't wait for this to be over, so all these lunatics are locked up and forgotten about.

 

[caseyjonesin905]

Since I think they're both guilty I think it would be foolish for either of them to testify, as much as I would like them to for the Bosma's sake. Although, that would assume they would tell the truth, which I think MS would come closer to than DM, but I'm not at all confident about that.

I just can't wait for this to be over, so all these lunatics are locked up and forgotten about.

Long way to go yet.. 2 more trials after this one..

 

[RandomName479]

I'll just say that I feel the same as Susan Clairmont who was quoted a few posts up

I hope they do. Possibly we can get some semblance of truth of what happened that night.....I would imagine a lot of lies will have to be weeded out......If MS does testify, I will be interested to see if TD holds him as accountable as he has other witnesses.....I honestly don't think there is any way DM will be found anything other than guilty, even if he does testify......IMO the evidence against him is overwhelming.....

 

[ezuke]

Long way to go yet.. 2 more trials after this one..

I think they're all done for. I'm pretty sure CN is guilty based solely on the evidence shown during this trial, and there's more to come for her.
Heck, I think MM is guilty of something, and she didn't (as far as I know) help clean up traces of Tim Bosma's murder like CN did. kwim?

These are very weak minded people (AM, MH, MM, SS, even MS) being manipulated by one sociopath and his equally deranged girl friend.

 

[canali]

maybe if/when DM takes the stand and feels his case is a lost one,
he'll think '****** it!...time to take her down,too' and come clean about what really went on.
either now, or after he's had a chance to think about it, at HER trial in November.
now that would be something.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Yep. That's a good explanation from a Toronto defense lawyer firm's blog. This link might work better. The cached one posted gives me wonky errors.

http://www.torontodefencelawyers.com/blog/general-category/accessory-after-the-fact/

Yes, that helps explain what motivated her testimony. Thanks.

 

[EspressoBean]

I hope they do. Possibly we can get some semblance of truth of what happened that night.....I would imagine a lot of lies will have to be weeded out......If MS does testify, I will be interested to see if TD holds him as accountable as he has other witnesses.....I honestly don't think there is any way DM will be found anything other than guilty, even if he does testify......IMO the evidence against him is overwhelming.....

I don't see that their testimony will provide any semblance of truth. I think we have seen the most truth we are going to see from the Crown's evidence.
If they testify, we will see what stories each of them are able to come up with to provide enough doubt to get them out of first degree murder charges. jmo

 

[Inspector_North]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1h1 hour ago
I think there is a good chance Smich and Millard will take the stand. #Bosma

Interesting! I wonder who will go first? I would think there is an advantage to going last.

MOO

 

[RandomName479]

I don't see that their testimony will provide any semblance of truth. I think we have seen the most truth we are going to see from the Crown's evidence.
If they testify, we will see what stories each of them are able to come up with to provide enough doubt to get them out of first degree murder charges. jmo

good point......we will see 2 versions of what happened that night......but I am hoping to gain some insight into the truth from how they spin their stories......even though DM's letters were filled with lies, from what he did and more so DID NOT say, they did help me come to the conclusion that he is guilty beyond any doubt (I accept that I may be reading too much into the letters and reaching too far) MOO

 

[EspressoBean]

maybe if/when DM takes the stand and feels his case is a lost one,
he'll think '****** it!...time to take her down,too' and come clean about what really went on.
either now, or after he's had a chance to think about it, at HER trial in November.
now that would be something.

I don't see there being any concern that DM is going to come clean about anything. I do think that he will find ways to say and do what he needs to do to hurt and punish anyone that made him vulnerable and who tried to make him hold responsibility. Truth and coming clean would mean he accepts responsibility which is not something he will ever do. I don't think he has the capacity to do that. If found guilty, I am sure DM will spend any life sentence finding ways to appeal the verdict. JMO

 

[EspressoBean]

Interesting! I wonder who will go first? I would think there is an advantage to going last.

MOO

DM's defense will be up first. He is the first accused listed in this trial.

 

[redheart]

I don't see that their testimony will provide any semblance of truth. I think we have seen the most truth we are going to see from the Crown's evidence.
If they testify, we will see what stories each of them are able to come up with to provide enough doubt to get them out of first degree murder charges. jmo

Yes, this exactly. I hope they don't testify. We, and the Bosmas, won't get any closer to the truth of what happened that night.

 

[Inspector_North]

I don't see there being any concern that DM is going to come clean about anything. I do think that he will find ways to say and do what he needs to do to hurt and punish anyone that made him vulnerable and who tried to make him hold responsibility. Truth and coming clean would mean he accepts responsibility which is not something he will ever do. I don't think he has the capacity to do that. If found guilty, I am sure DM will spend any life sentence finding ways to appeal the verdict. JMO

Not that MS may not have tried, but DM is the one we all think was trying to frame MS. It will limit DM's options in trying to prove his own innocence. If he uses the blame game, it will just sound like more of the same. Unless he can provide testimony that can be confirmed with evidence.

MOO

 

[EspressoBean]

good point......we will see 2 versions of what happened that night......but I am hoping to gain some insight into the truth from how they spin their stories......even though DM's letters were filled with lies, from what he did and more so DID NOT say, they did help me come to the conclusion that he is guilty beyond any doubt (I accept that I may be reading too much into the letters and reaching too far) MOO

I definitely don't think you are reading too much into the letters. He doesn't even once in the letters claim to be innocent. He only talks about "beating the charge".
I found it so interesting that he is writing letters to his girlfriend and he doesn't once try to tell her that he didn't do the crime for which he is charged. We can assume that she never asks him, since there is not a response in any of his letters that replies to such a question. It seems to me, that the only way that there would be no mention or explanation of the charges would be because the person he is writing to already knows the answer and he knows that she knows the answer.
Otherwise, you would be wanting your girlfriend to know that you are innocent, that you were set up, or that LE has made a mistake. He only gives her "stories" for her to replace the truth that she already is aware about and use as her testimony and to influence AM's testimony.
Not the letters of an innocent man....and not the letters addressed to someone unaware. JMO

 

[brightii]

I don't see that their testimony will provide any semblance of truth. I think we have seen the most truth we are going to see from the Crown's evidence.
If they testify, we will see what stories each of them are able to come up with to provide enough doubt to get them out of first degree murder charges. jmo

You could be right, but I am holding out hope that MS will testify and testify truthfully. TD would not put him on the stand, IMO if MS was not prepared to tell the truth, IMO. I'm very suspicious and quite cynical of ALL the people that had dealings with DM, but I do think there is a possibility that MS was in fact set-up by DM, and if that's true, MS should testify about the details of whatever involvement in the crime MS had or didn't have i.e. days leading up to the truck theft and TB's subsequent murder, and planning or not for either or both, what happened at time of TB's murder, what happened to the murder weapon, and what he did and why at the time after the murder until his arrest, or IMO MS has no hope, IMO.

There must be some occasions where people who are charged with first degree murder are not guilty, and therefore I am waiting still to make up my mind about MS. I want to hear if MS is proved beyond reasonable doubt to be guilty before concluding that he is guilty and should be convicted, IMO. If MS doesn't testify or TD doesn't present a defense for him, I am not sure that I could convict him if I was on the jury, but I think from following the posts here, most people would be able to convict MS right now, and therefore I think the jury likely would too.

If DM testifies he will have to face TD's cross and that is something I can imagine would be quite a showdown, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[EspressoBean]

Not that MS may not have tried, but DM is the one we all think was trying to frame MS. It will limit DM's options in trying to prove his own innocence. If he uses the blame game, it will just sound like more of the same. Unless he can provide testimony that can be confirmed with evidence.

MOO

I am not expecting that the defense will focus on anyone being set up or framed. You are right, there wouldn't be evidence to support it. They just need to create a plausible theory that they were not there at the time of the murder. It would become a whole new trial again if they were out to prove the other one did it. It was the Crown's job to prove they did it. Each defense just needs to prove that their client didn't do it. jmo

 

[Gibson67]

I don't believe CN is going to get off. She chose trial by judge, no jury. That will be harder for her, at least with a jury she could hope for 1/2 men that would get turned on by her sex talk and feel bad and let her off. A judge will see right through her "I didn't know" BS.

I don't think the trial will have the same dynamics as what we have heard from her already. The crown will present a case and show texts, phone pings, letters etc and call witnesses...she will sit at the table with her Lawyer and he will just object and cross all the crown's witnesses. She won't speak like she did in her testimony so I doubt a judge will hear any of the I don't know, I don't remember. The crown will just have to prove she knew what she was moving (eliminator) trailer (truck inside). I really don't know how they are going to prove this.

 

[EspressoBean]

I don't think either one was framed. I think they both participated in the murder and knew the plan. Although the jury is not supposed to consider it, I can't help but be aware that this was not the first murder with which they are charged. Even if I believed that MS was not guilty in the other murder(s), I don't think I can believe that he was not aware that DM had committed them. I don't see MS getting caught up in this plan to steal a truck (the one theft in which they didn't involve the usual crew), have a gun and then be caught off guard that DM murdered TB. He was at minimum quite aware of what DM was capable of and willing to do.
What I do think, though, is that it was DM's plan. I think that without DM, the murder would not have happened but I think without MS, the murder still could have happened.
As always, JMO