GUILTY CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #12

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Nothing that these "parents" did has anything to do with "secular media."
The primary religion in the US is Christian. Some Christians, including church leaders, do teach twisted and abusive ways of parenting in the name of religion.
By the way, I'm a Christian too.


I recognize what you're saying and it's part of their story. Maybe I'm just not looking forward to the slew of comments that will blame these horrors on religion or conservative Christians. Unfortunately, child abuse can be done by all kinds of people, Christian or Muslim, religious or non-religious. Child abuse happens in all facets in society, in spite of what I believe secular media want us to believe.
 
I recognize what you're saying and it's part of their story. Maybe I'm just not looking forward to the slew of comments that will blame these horrors on religion or conservative Christians. Unfortunately, child abuse can be done by all kinds of people, Christian or Muslim, religious or non-religious. Child abuse happens in all facets in society, in spite of what I believe secular media want us to believe.

we all knew they were religious and used the Bible to justify their behavior, this isn’t a new development.
 
They did use Religion and the Bible to abuse and control their children. They also did numerous things that go against the Bible. I don't understand why people keep getting offended or upset when Religion is mentioned. It's 2021, we should talk about this freely. Religion is used to manipulate and abuse people but no, Religion is not ALL bad, period.
 
They did use Religion and the Bible to abuse and control their children. They also did numerous things that go against the Bible. I don't understand why people keep getting offended or upset when Religion is mentioned. It's 2021, we should talk about this freely. Religion is used to manipulate and abuse people but no, Religion is not ALL bad, period.

I do apologize as it might seem I’m more upset about the mention of these parents being heavy so-called “Pentecostals” and so- called “Homeschoolers” then about the horrific abuse these poor kids and young adults suffered!

I was simply concerned that this story will be used to attack all conservative Christians and all homeschoolers. I will leave it at that.
 
Well, the way it’s worded, they could be with a family. It’s hard to tell. I think that those who are representing these kids have their best interests at heart and have placed them in a setting best suited for their needs, whatever place that is. This case is much too notorious for there to be any slip-ups by those in charge IMO.
We now know the opposite is true and no one has been held accountable.
 
Quoting my own post because I just remembered that @gitana1 practices in CA, am I right? gitana, wonder if you can weigh in on any of this?

I do practice here and it’s inexcusable. Those who donated should be able to sue the trustee. It’s ridiculous. All that money. Where did it go? And why aren’t these people getting free services that are available? Why isn’t their attorney overseeing all of this?
 
I do practice here and it’s inexcusable. Those who donated should be able to sue the trustee. It’s ridiculous. All that money. Where did it go? And why aren’t these people getting free services that are available? Why isn’t their attorney overseeing all of this?

It's truly unthinkable and should have never happened. Just watching the 20/20 video it's also maddening to see so many dodge questions and pretend like it was someone else's responsibility. I'd open my doors to all 13 of them right now if I were in Riverside county. This was certainly not the news anyone expected to hear nearly 4 years later.
 
I do apologize as it might seem I’m more upset about the mention of these parents being heavy so-called “Pentecostals” and so- called “Homeschoolers” then about the horrific abuse these poor kids and young adults suffered!

I was simply concerned that this story will be used to attack all conservative Christians and all homeschoolers. I will leave it at that.
Respectfully, I'm more concerned about the 13 individuals victimized by Louise and David.
 
IMO, each one of the adults should have been assigned an individual mentor to show them the ropes, help them to navigate the world and make sure they were getting the services they are entitled to receive. What has happened to them is criminal.

Agree.
Watched the interview, shed tears, had a nightmare about chains that night.
My mouth literally dropped open when I learned about some of the poor treatment these precious people have endured since being rescued.
 
It’s disgusting and as I recall, some of us here were concerned about the support they might have as adults. I was especially concerned when they cut the hospital staff off abruptly and despite advice to the contrary. All of it makes me sick. They’ve been through enough.

Yup. That was really upsetting and didn’t bode well for their future treatment.
 
I also found the interview heartbreaking but also inspiring and then, at the end when they talked about how the system failed these kids, infuriating!

I am also so happy that Jaycee is stepping into to raise money for them through her foundation! Understandably, people are going to be far more trusting of Jaycee than the state of California! I wish there was a way all the kids could live with Jaycee and her mom for a while so they can get good therapy and maybe get to experience what a loving family is supposed to be!

I will say though that I was a bit annoyed at how the 20/20 special, in my opinion, kind of tried to smear conservative Christians by making sure they mentioned how the Turpin parents were strict Pentecostals who believed “no sex before marriage” etc. While that may have been their beliefs and they used the Bible to justify the abuse of their children, such horrific abuse such as that visited on these poor kids have NO place in a Christian home and are not part of any legitimate Christian denomination’s teachings including the Catholic Church!

I will say I was amazed that one of the girls (Jennifer, I think) still wants to be a Christian music artist! I would have understood if these girls didn’t want anything to do with Christianity after their parents used it to abuse their children but the fact that Jennifer still wants to use it in her music is awe-inspiring!

These young women and their siblings are incredibly strong and courageous and I admit I cried during the interview and I’m a 30 year-old man!

I do hope these kids get the help and resources they need! Hopefully, with this expose of how they were failed by the system people will rally around these kids and do everything possible to help them!

Fundamentalist religiosity goes hand in hand with abuse. I think that’s why their “strict” beliefs were mentioned. Fundamentalist religions of all kinds (Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc.) tend to be patriarchal and divest women and children of power and agency. Thus, women and children can be more easily objectified and seen as property, or less than. This enables a higher rate of sexual, physical, spiritual and emotional abuse, as well as sexual assault and domestic violence against spouses, and resultant mental illnesses in certain cultures or groups or communities.

But the key is “fundamentalist”. Obviously that doesn’t apply to anyone practicing a religion. It applies to certain groups and cultures and it has to do with higher rates, not a guarantee.

If you would like links to back up my statements, I would be happy to oblige. It’s an area I have studied academically, especially when it comes to religious sects and beliefs in North America.
 
Fundamentalist religiosity goes hand in hand with abuse. I think that’s why their “strict” beliefs were mentioned. Fundamentalist religions of all kinds (Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc.) tend to be patriarchal and divest women and children of power and agency. Thus, women and children can be more easily objectified and seen as property, or less than. This enables a higher rate of sexual, physical, spiritual and emotional abuse, as well as sexual assault and domestic violence against spouses, and resultant mental illnesses in certain cultures or groups or communities.

But the key is “fundamentalist”. Obviously that doesn’t apply to anyone practicing a religion. It applies to certain groups and cultures and it has to do with higher rates, not a guarantee.

If you would like links to back up my statements, I would be happy to oblige. It’s an area I have studied academically, especially when it comes to religious sects and beliefs in North America.

Actually that does sound interesting! If possible, please post the links here or send me a PM through here.

Thanks!
 
Actually that does sound interesting! If possible, please post the links here or send me a PM through here.

Thanks!

Orthodox Judaism: Fraidy Reiss has an incredible story. Her organization, Unchained at Last, addresses underage & abusive marriages. Her background is Orthodox Judaism but the group helps Christians and Muslims as well. Home - Unchained At Last

Amish: one place to start is Sarah McClure's "The Amish Keep To Themselves. And They're Hiding A Horrifying Secret." If you can't access the article itself (Cosmopolitan magazine), here's the NPR interview: Investigation Into Child Sex Abuse In Amish Communities

Protestants: Gothard's Institute for Basic Life Principles is discussed over in Josh Duggar's thread.
 
Fundamentalist religiosity goes hand in hand with abuse. I think that’s why their “strict” beliefs were mentioned. Fundamentalist religions of all kinds (Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc.) tend to be patriarchal and divest women and children of power and agency. Thus, women and children can be more easily objectified and seen as property, or less than. This enables a higher rate of sexual, physical, spiritual and emotional abuse, as well as sexual assault and domestic violence against spouses, and resultant mental illnesses in certain cultures or groups or communities.

But the key is “fundamentalist”. Obviously that doesn’t apply to anyone practicing a religion. It applies to certain groups and cultures and it has to do with higher rates, not a guarantee.

If you would like links to back up my statements, I would be happy to oblige. It’s an area I have studied academically, especially when it comes to religious sects and beliefs in North America.

I'll add that fundamentalist communities tend to be quite insular and have their own schools (Amish, Orthodox & Hasidic Jews) or encourage homeschooling (Protestants). Religion, homeschooling, cars, pain meds - all have valid and good uses and all can be injurious and fatal. (Homeschooler here, if it matters). JMO.
 
Excellent and true.


Fundamentalist religiosity goes hand in hand with abuse. I think that’s why their “strict” beliefs were mentioned. Fundamentalist religions of all kinds (Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc.) tend to be patriarchal and divest women and children of power and agency. Thus, women and children can be more easily objectified and seen as property, or less than. This enables a higher rate of sexual, physical, spiritual and emotional abuse, as well as sexual assault and domestic violence against spouses, and resultant mental illnesses in certain cultures or groups or communities.

But the key is “fundamentalist”. Obviously that doesn’t apply to anyone practicing a religion. It applies to certain groups and cultures and it has to do with higher rates, not a guarantee.

If you would like links to back up my statements, I would be happy to oblige. It’s an area I have studied academically, especially when it comes to religious sects and beliefs in North America.
 
Actually that does sound interesting! If possible, please post the links here or send me a PM through here.

Thanks!

Here a few of the studies I have looked at. Note that overall, at least in the US, those who are religious tend to have lower rates of domestic violence, while those who adhere to fundamentalist religions tend to have higher rates of DV. So, for example, those who follow Christianity tend to have higher empathy levels and thus religious belief acts as a protection against DV, until it is a fundamentalist Christian religion. Then the empathy levels plummet and rates of DV go above average. Sexual abuse/assault tends to be higher among conservatively religious people, especially those who practice fundamentalist religions:

1. The inherent logic of patriarchy says that if men have the right to power and control over women and children, they also have the right to enforce that control. . . . Domination and glorification of violence are characteristics of patriarchal societies. . . . In patriarchy, women and children are defined in relation to men who control the resources and the power. Women and children are the other, the object. Men are the norm, the subject. In a dominance-and-submission social order, there is no true mutual care. Subordinates are to care for the needs of the dominants.24 Similarly, Rosemary Radford Ruether declares: “Domestic violence against women—wife battering or beating—is rooted in and is the logical conclusion of basic patriarchal assumptions about women’s subordinate status.”25 After carefully documenting historical and religious incidents and justifications for the abuse of women, Mary Engel Potter argues that “ideologies of inequity [patriarchy] and the practice of violence are inextricably linked” because the logic of patriarchy provides one just cause for battery, namely female subordination.26
https://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/50/50-3/JETS_50-3_573-594_Tracy.pdf

2. A study showing that:

Gender-related factors at the national and subnational level help to predict the population prevalence of physical and sexual partner violence within the past 12 months. Especially predictive of the geographical distribution of partner violence are norms related to male authority over female behaviour (0·102, p<0·0001)
DEFINE_ME

3. In this chapter, Daphne Marsden considers conservative Christian understandings of gender roles and relationships, and the way that these are rooted in biblically based teachings on male headship and female submission. Evaluating both complementarian and egalitarian understandings of Christian gender roles, she explores the use of certain biblical texts by evangelical Christians to validate patriarchal patterns of male hegemony, thereby justifying spousal violence and preventing abused women from seeking or receiving support. Interspersed throughout her discussion are the testimonies of Christian women impacted by gender violence, whose words illustrate first-hand some of the consequences that arise from conservative Christian teachings about gender roles.
The Church’s Contribution to Domestic Violence: Submission, Headship, and Patriarchy

4. Family Violence in Religious Communities

[T]he triumvirate of family violence (domestic violence, child physical abuse, and child sexual abuse) is more likely to occur in insular, patriarchal communities in which women have little power or influence34—raising questions about how women and children will fare if society hands over greater authority to religious groups.35 Despite the presence of these classic risk factors, researchers have found it surprisingly difficult to measure the incidence of family violence within religious groups.36 The empirical studies that have been undertaken reveal a complex pattern of intimate partner abuse and child abuse in religious communities.37

Notes from link:

Risk Factors in the Sexual Victimization of Children, 4 CHILD ABUSE &NEGLECT 265, 269 (1980) (finding in a study of 796 college undergraduates that "[w]hen a father has particularly conservative family values, for example, believing strongly in children’s obedience and in the subordination of women, a daughter is more at risk for sexual abuse").

EMERSON DOBASH &RUSSELL DOBASH,VIOLENCE AGAINST WIVES: ACASE AGAINST THE PATRIARCHY 33 (1983) ("The seeds of wife beating lie in the subordination of females and their subjection to male authority and control.")
https://law2.wlu.edu/deptimages/Law Review/64-4Wilson.pdf


5. This briefing discusses the insidious links between patriarchy, violence and Christianity and their effects on women as seen through the prevalence of domestic violence in South Africa. Patriarchy, as the rule of the father/male over women, is in itself a form of violence because of its effects on women's dignity and place in society. Using the thought of Rene Girard, the links between violence, the sacred and sexuality are established. Christianity, as a patriarchal religion, does violence to women through its preponderant use of male language for God, its traditional teaching on women's inferiority, the Household Codes in the New Testament which mandate the subordination of women, and its hierarchical structure.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10130950.2004.9676037


6. A study showing how religiosity in general correlates with a DECREASED risk of violence, but fundamentalist religiosity correlates with an increase:

From our findings, it appears that Religiousness, in and of itself, tends to be a factor that is related to greater Empathy/Perspective Taking for college males. However, for males reporting greater endorsement of fundamentalist interpretations of religious beliefs, their experience with religion tended to be associated with lower Empathy/Perspective Taking. Furthermore, given that Empathy/Perspective Taking tends to be a protective factor related to lower risk of IPV perpetration, it is possible that males with higher fundamentalist beliefs tend to be at greater relative risk for perpetration of intimate partner violence. On the other hand, for males who do not espouse fundamentalist beliefs religiousness tends to be associated with greater Empathy/Perspective Taking, which may reduce their risk of IPV perpetration. From a statistical standpoint, the overall relationship between religiousness and empathy when taking into account the direct effect of religiousness and the mediating effect of fundamentalism suggests that no significant relationship exists. However, it is most likely that the lack of a significant overall effect is an artifact of the opposed directionality of those direct (β=.34) and indirect (β =-.69) effects, and not representative of the true relationships among those constructs (Baron & Kenny, 1986). Conversely, when evaluating the total effect of religiousness on Masculine Power over Women, religiousness appears to be related to greater endorsement of male dominance, which in turn has been found to be a risk factor for IPV perpetration. However, our findings suggest that this apparent relationship is almost entirely associated 39 with a man’s endorsement of fundamentalist beliefs, rather than his general Religiousness. Thus, while on the surface Religiousness seems to have no association with beliefs regarding Masculine Power over Women, males endorsing greater fundamentalist beliefs tend to be the ones who also state that they believe in man’s dominant position over women.
https://scholarcommons.sc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4648&context=etd

7. Another study showing the difference in rates of violence between those who are religious (generally not association with psychological aggression, violence approval or intimate partner violence) and those with fundamentalist religious beliefs (higher rates of violence approval and intimate partner violence):
RELIGIOSITY, CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM, AND INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE AMONG U.S. COLLEGE STUDENTS on JSTOR


8. A study exploring whether fundamentalism and/or other religious variables correlate with increased risk of domestic violence:
Do Fundamentalism and Other Religious Variables Predict Domestic Violence? - by James Alexander


9. An article explaining that studies show: Sexual violence is likely to occur more commonly in cultures that foster beliefs of perceived male superiority and social and cultural inferiority of women.
Sexual violence against women: Understanding cross-cultural intersections

10. Child sexual abuse is a pervasive problem in our communities, and has been for the most part, ignored by churches in Christian denominations. This paper presents the current research regarding the impact of sexual abuse (particularly in children). It explores the hindrance the patriarchal structure of Christian churches has been in giving victims a spiritual place of healing. The author presents suggestions as to what churches can do to better equip their leaders and congregants to deal with the topic of sexual abuse and to make the Christian community a safer place for victims. The article also includes issues for secular traumatologists working with victims of sexual abuse by clergy.
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

11. Religious Affiliations Among Adult Sexual Offenders Donna Eshuys · Stephen Smallbone Published online: 2 August 2006 C Springer Science+Business Media, Inc. 2006 Abstract This article examines associations between self-reported religious affiliations and official offense histories among 111 incarcerated adult male sexual offenders. Four categories of religiosity were devised according to self-reported continuities and discontinuities in lifecourse religious affiliations: atheists, dropouts, converts, and stayers. ANCOVAs indicated that stayers (those who maintained religious involvement from childhood to adulthood) had more sexual offense convictions, more victims, and younger victims, than other groups. Results challenge assumptions that religious involvement should, as with other crime, serve to deter sexual offending behavior. Results are discussed in terms of social control and situational theories of crime.
http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...Affiliations+Among+Adult+Sexual+Offenders.pdf


12. "One Israeli study confirmed that “…religious Jews who were in prison were more likely to be in for sex crimes.”
Religiosity, criminality and types of offences of Jewish male prisoners Medicine and law, 14 (7-8), 509-19 PMID: 8667998
The Prevalence of Sexual Abuse in Fundamentalist Patriarchal Environments.

13. "A study of freshmen at a southern university in the U.S. found that '…those who had been sexually abused by a relative were much more likely to be affiliated with fundamental Protestant religions.'"
Religiosity and Child Sexual Abuse: A Risk Factor Assessment Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 6 (4), 15-34 DOI: 10.1300/J070v06n04_02
The Prevalence of Sexual Abuse in Fundamentalist Patriarchal Environments.
 
Orthodox Judaism: Fraidy Reiss has an incredible story. Her organization, Unchained at Last, addresses underage & abusive marriages. Her background is Orthodox Judaism but the group helps Christians and Muslims as well. Home - Unchained At Last

Amish: one place to start is Sarah McClure's "The Amish Keep To Themselves. And They're Hiding A Horrifying Secret." If you can't access the article itself (Cosmopolitan magazine), here's the NPR interview: Investigation Into Child Sex Abuse In Amish Communities

Protestants: Gothard's Institute for Basic Life Principles is discussed over in Josh Duggar's thread.

Here is an interesting article on Gothardism and how this writer believes that it shaped Josh Duggar into the predator he became. Note the writer is an Evangelical Christian who left the Gothard IBLP cult.
Diary of an Autodidact: The Duggars: How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory Behavior

The Turpins are not IBLP, but some of the tenets of the cult like Quiverfull, homeschooling only, seem to be practiced by them.

Of course mental illness and/or neurological issues cannot be ignored when it comes to people like the Turpin parents. It can be a toxic brew in which they have serious issues and use religion to justify their dysfunction and abuse and/or are influenced by certain teachings and become more mentally unsound as they grasp on more tightly and legalistically, to religion.
 
bbm
The bolded--this.

I'll add that fundamentalist communities tend to be quite insular and have their own schools (Amish, Orthodox & Hasidic Jews) or encourage homeschooling (Protestants). Religion, homeschooling, cars, pain meds - all have valid and good uses and all can be injurious and fatal. (Homeschooler here, if it matters). JMO.
 
As others have said, the interview was both heartbreaking and inspiring. At 17, Jordan, talking to the dispatcher and deputy, didn't know the words "medication," "pill," "injury," and "bruise." That is so telling as to the lack of cognitive stimulation in that household. Most 5 year olds would know the latter three words.

I am angry at how these young people have been treated since. The young man (Jacob, I think) asking for help with transportation. I was thinking he might be asking for a car, but, no, he was only asking for a bike and didn't get it. Maybe Jacob again asking for help to understand and use the public transportation system and being told to google it. A child in foster care being told, "No wonder your mother chained you up." Jordan, aging out of foster care, and now couch surfing with no home. People are still failing the children in this family.
Exactly. They should have had a strong advocate appointed to specifically help them navigate the world and not be taken advantage of, etc. instead it seems they were mostly thrown to the wolves. And California promised they wouldn’t do that. I also was previously under the assumption that the younger children had been adopted and apparently that’s not true either. I don’t know who needs to lose their jobs but the process should start tomorrow.

I also noticed that despite their gains they still have some language challenges and trouble reading social cues. But still impressive as hell for how far they’ve come.
 
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