CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #4

[Ray_of_hope]

Fox news just said that it appears Farook hit the LE radar a week before the attacks. The feds said neither of them were on the radar, and now the local LE won't comment on the topic.

Sorry no link, it was mentioned in a video but Fox didn't have any details on it yet.

I remember the day of the shooting, listening to the scanner, when LE first had a lead on the actual shooter(s). First a name was mentioned and then another LE said that the person in question had been stopped/detained/talked to the week prior and they were trying to locate the paperwork to verify. I always wondered what happened with that.

 

[ninij9]

Now I want to know how his name came up a week before? Perhaps someone called in a tip on him? Will we ever know?

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[Montjoy]

Washington, D.C.: FBI Releases 2014 Hate Crime Statistics.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

Religious bias
Hate crimes motivated by religious bias accounted for 1,092 offenses reported by law enforcement. A breakdown of the bias motivation of religious-biased offenses showed:

58.2 percent were anti-Jewish.
16.3 percent were anti-Islamic (Muslim).
6.1 percent were anti-Catholic.
4.7 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
2.6 percent were anti-Protestant.
1.2 percent were anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc.
11.0 percent were anti-other (unspecified) religion. (Based on Table 1.)

<BBM>

That's interesting -- but I don't think that it makes the point you are intending to make. Why did you only boldface the first two categories?

Clearly, there are a disproportionate number of anti-Jewish attacks. But there are also a disproportionate number of anti-Muslim attacks, relative to the religions listed below.

There are 2.77 Muslims in the USA, but 16.3% of attacks were against them.

Mind you, there are 69.4 million Catholics in the USA, and only 6.1% of attacks were against them.

Likewise, there are about 165 million Protestants in the USA, and only 2.6% of attacks were against them.

So, both Jews and Muslims are attacked at far higher rates than anyone else. I do not think that this makes your point that Muslims are not subject to persecution (if that was the point of the figures you linked earlier). The comparison shouldn't be between attacks against Jews versus attacks against Muslims -- but between attacks against Jews and Muslims versus attacks on all other groups. Jews and Muslims are both big victims of hate in the USA.

 

[deoneta]

FBI stats on religiously motivated hate crimes for 2014:

Religious bias

Of the 1,140 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

56.8 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.

16.1 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/topic-pages/victims_final

The accompanying tables break down the statistics for all hate crimes.

 

[Gigi-G]

Ugh it's almost 4 a.m.
Time flys.
Take care ya'll. I'm gonna try sleep in my morphine haze lol.
&#9825;Namastè&#9825;

 

[Tillicum]

The first video at this link is survivors describing the attack. If you let it play through, the next video begins and there is discussion of someone looking like Farook who tried to get into this building in the last few weeks. I'm wondering if this could tie in with them checking him out the week before?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/sa...n-bernardino-shooting-survivors-speak-n475756

 

[EllieBee]

No, you're not missing anything. The link for the persecution claim was to a site about getting a flu shot.

I think I gotta go to bed. That makes my already compromised head feel kinda swimmy.

 

[Boytwnmom]

She is one of the very articulate and knowledgeable voices on this. There are a lot of them out there. People who intimately know and understand Islam and how it is being wielded.

And the idea of reform and who wins the battle of the prevailing ideology is critically important. Why, because of facts. And right now the facts favor the US in that we have a much smaller # than other places and they are, for the most part, less radical.http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Muslims are the fastest-growing religious group in the world.

There were 1.6 billion Muslims in the world as of 2010 – roughly 23% of the global population – according to a Pew Research Center estimate. But while Islam is currently the world’s second-largest religion (after Christianity), it is the fastest-growing major religion. Indeed, if current demographic trends continue, the number of Muslims is expected to exceed the number of Christians by the end of this century.

Facts about US Muslims come from a 2011 PEW survey. Important aspects:

Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations....Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends

From what I've learned I do feel better about the US than I do about some places in Europe. But until some strategy is employed to encourage a more moderate form to Islam to take hold, countries treat Islam as just another religion at their peril.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, divides Muslims into three groups: “Medina Muslims" (fundamentalists), "Mecca Muslims" (majority), and modifying Muslims (reformers).

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/09...iolence-ayaan-hirsi-ali-debate-islamic-state/

The future of Islam and the world’s relationship with Muslims will be decided by which of the two minority groups — the Medina Muslims and the reformers — wins the support of the meccan majority. That is why focusing on “violent extremism” is to focus on a symptom of a much more profound ideological epidemic that has its root causes in Islamic doctrine.

 

[ninij9]

Ugh it's almost 4 a.m.
Time flys.
Take care ya'll. I'm gonna try sleep in my morphine haze lol.
&#9825;Namastè&#9825;

Goodnight!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[EllieBee]

That's interesting -- but I don't think that it makes the point you are intending to make. Why did you only boldface the first two categories?

Clearly, there are a disproportionate number of anti-Jewish attacks. But there are also a disproportionate number of anti-Muslim attacks, relative to the religions listed below.

There are 2.77 Muslims in the USA, but 16.3% of attacks were against them.

Mind you, there are 69.4 million Catholics in the USA, and only 6.1% of attacks were against them.

Likewise, there are about 165 million Protestants in the USA, and only 2.6% of attacks were against them.

So, both Jews and Muslims are attacked at far higher rates than anyone else. I do not think that this makes your point that Muslims are not subject to persecution (if that was the point of the figures you linked earlier). The comparison shouldn't be between attacks against Jews versus attacks against Muslims -- but between attacks against Jews and Muslims versus attacks on all other groups. Jews and Muslims are both big victims of hate in the USA.

Maths make my head ache. Thank goodness for those for whom maths are easy.

 

[bluesneakers]

I think I gotta go to bed. That makes my already compromised head feel kinda swimmy.

I hope it's not the flu.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I remember the day of the shooting, listening to the scanner, when LE first had a lead on the actual shooter(s). First a name was mentioned and then another LE said that the person in question had been stopped/detained/talked to the week prior and they were trying to locate the paperwork to verify. I always wondered what happened with that.

Found it on the scan postings. The person on the radio said they had run info on the suspect last week and waiting to get the info.

 

[ninij9]

I'm trying to read literature to educate myself here. Not as simple as picking up their holy book and reading it for myself, so much political history, factions, Sharia law, ISIS, government policies, Saudi Arabia, radicalizing via Social Media etc etc. At this rate I will be back here by thread 18 or 25.
Goodnight good people!

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[bluesneakers]

She is one of the very articulate and knowledgeable voices on this. There are a lot of them out there. People who intimately know and understand Islam and how it is being wielded.

And the idea of reform and who wins the battle of the prevailing ideology is critically important. Why, because of facts. And right now the facts favor the US in that we have a much smaller # than other places and they are, for the most part, less radical.http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/



Facts about US Muslims come from a 2011 PEW survey. Important aspects:



From what I've learned I do feel better about the US than I do about some places in Europe. But until some strategy is employed to encourage a more moderate form to Islam to take hold, countries treat Islam as just another religion at their peril.

From your link:

There were 1.6 billion Muslims in the world as of 2010 &#8211; roughly 23% of the global population &#8211; according to a Pew Research Center estimate. But while Islam is currently the world&#8217;s second-largest religion (after Christianity), it is the fastest-growing major religion. Indeed, if current demographic trends continue, the number of Muslims is expected to exceed the number of Christians by the end of this century.

I find it fascinating that even though there is so much anti-Muslim rhetoric and hate (as seen in the FBI stats) out there the religion is going to gain so many followers.

According to our best estimate, Muslims make up just less than 1% of the U.S. adult population.

Our demographic projections estimate that Muslims will make up 2.1% of the U.S. population by the year 2050, surpassing people who identify as Jewish on the basis of religion as the second-largest faith group in the country (not including people who say they have no religion).

 

[Ray_of_hope]

FOX NEWS - Kelly File:

Breaking: One of the terrorists was being investigated by LAPD one week before the San Bernardino attack..

http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-missed-warning/article/2000125

A Missed Warning?
Scanner traffic indicates law enforcement may have investigated San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook a week before the attack.
5:04 PM, Dec 07, 2015

Law enforcement officials in San Bernardino and Los Angeles may have investigated Syed Farook one week before the shooting on the community development center on December 2, 2015, that left 14 dead and 17 injured, according to a review of police communications immediately following the attacks.
<snipped - read more>

I remember this!

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
Washington, D.C.: FBI Releases 2014 Hate Crime Statistics.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investi...ts/hate_crimes

Religious bias
Hate crimes motivated by religious bias accounted for 1,092 offenses reported by law enforcement. A breakdown of the bias motivation of religious-biased offenses showed:

58.2 percent were anti-Jewish.
16.3 percent were anti-Islamic (Muslim).
6.1 percent were anti-Catholic.
4.7 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
2.6 percent were anti-Protestant.
1.2 percent were anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc.
11.0 percent were anti-other (unspecified) religion. (Based on Table 1.)

<BBM>

That's interesting -- but I don't think that it makes the point you are intending to make. Why did you only boldface the first two categories?

Clearly, there are a disproportionate number of anti-Jewish attacks. But there are also a disproportionate number of anti-Muslim attacks, relative to the religions listed below.

There are 2.77 Muslims in the USA, but 16.3% of attacks were against them.

Mind you, there are 69.4 million Catholics in the USA, and only 6.1% of attacks were against them.

Likewise, there are about 165 million Protestants in the USA, and only 2.6% of attacks were against them.

So, both Jews and Muslims are attacked at far higher rates than anyone else. I do not think that this makes your point that Muslims are not subject to persecution (if that was the point of the figures you linked earlier). The comparison shouldn't be between attacks against Jews versus attacks against Muslims -- but between attacks against Jews and Muslims versus attacks on all other groups. Jews and Muslims are both big victims of hate in the USA.

Just thought it was interesting, Montjoy due to the US Attorney General Loretta Lynch's fear of a backlash of muslims after the San Bernardino terrorist attack. My point being that there wasn't a huge backlash after the terrorist attacks on 09/11/2001. Why would there be a backlash of islamophobia now?

 

[deoneta]

From all sources we hear that ISIS not only does not represent Islam, it is not part of the religion. ISIS certainly isn't what most people consider religion, but that is not what ISIS followers believe. And belief is key. ISIS is driven by ideology and faith. We also hear that the answer to eliminating radical extremist ideology must come from from within Islam. If that is true, it must be acknowledged that however small the percentage of adherents may be, radicalism must be addressed as having a religious basis that can't simply be explained away by economics, social isolation, climate, etc. All MOO

 

[CARIIS]

ugh this is all getting so repulsive ban all muslims bla bal

that is just not who we are

ok ready three two one done

there now we have no crime no probems etcetc its moronic IMO

its like a Goodyear tire goes flat thats it no more Goodyear tires

pathetic while the evidence in the domain of mass shootings are white american males between 25 35 ate the perps

just the numbers how that is constantly downplayed in this mess is more than befuddling..........

is fla t out stupid IMO and it is a distraction about the failures of our systems

 

[bluesneakers]

From all sources we hear that ISIS not only does not represent Islam, it is not part of the religion. ISIS certainly isn't what most people consider religion, but that is not what ISIS followers believe. And belief is key. ISIS is driven by ideology and faith. We also hear that the answer to eliminating radical extremist ideology must come from from within Islam. If that is true, it must be acknowledged that however small the percentage of adherents may be, radicalism must be addressed as having a religious basis that can't simply be explained away by economics, social isolation, climate, etc. All MOO

I like this:

We will not win against the Medina ideology by stopping the suicide bomber just before he detonates himself, wherever he may be; another will soon take his (or her) place. We will not win by stamping out the Islamic State or al Qaeda or Boko Haram or al-Shabab; a new radical group will just pop up somewhere else.

We will win only if we engage with the ideology of Islamist extremism, and counter the message of death, intolerance, and the pursuit of the afterlife with our own far preferable message of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/09...iolence-ayaan-hirsi-ali-debate-islamic-state/

 

[Montjoy]

Just thought it was interesting, Montjoy due to the US Attorney General Loretta Lynch's fear of a backlash of muslims after the San Bernardino terrorist attack. My point being that there wasn't a huge backlash after the terrorist attacks on 09/11/2001. Why would there be a backlash of islamophobia now?

But you're missing the point -- there is a huge problem with hate against Muslims in the USA. Muslims are about 390 times more likely to be the subject of a religious-bias attack than Protestants (the largest religious category in the USA). Don't you think that is significant? If that doesn't say Islamophobia to you, I don't know what would.

And the only way we'll know about how the SB attacks have increased this hatred is by looking back a year or more from now.