CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[Liwthe]

We have no idea if they suspect foul play or not.

They might not have enough evidence to prove that foul play occurred, or don’t want to tip their hand if they do.

Yes, it’s possible they can’t prove it, but that is what building a case is about. They say they don’t suspect it. Can you give examples of where the police said they didn’t suspect foul play as a ruse to trip up a suspect even when they did? I can’t see the benefit personally, but I can imagine a lot of harm/hurt to family members.

 

[Liwthe]

Right.

Which is exactly why the searches in that location were suspended after LE found 0 evidence was found of BT even having been there.
There were no evidentiary items found in that location.
I think LE drew some inferences from that.
LE is not going to assume on the basis of 0 evidence that she got lost in that desert.
Especially not after 9 days of exhaustive searching.

They are going to be looking elsewhere for evidence now.

They are still fully engaged in the investigative process , as evidenced by the fact that Detectives from the Specialized Investigations Division have assumed the investigation.

They're making a change of tack.

I have no doubt LE is taking a hard look at all of those areas you identified above, in addition to gathering digital evidence to see if they can retrace the movements of BT and RT in the hours between she was last seen and when he reported her missing.

JMO.

I think the language is confusing. LE did not say they found no evidence she’d ever been there.

I agree they are looking at all angles.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Ranked Probabilities IMO MOO

less than 1% -- Animal attack/carried off while headed back to RV, but with no screams, no blood, and no dropped hat, mug, visible scuffle or tracks etc

less than 1% -- Medical issue/animal bite/sting while headed back to RV, that somehow included the ability to hide nearby in rocks etc, well enough that searchers have not found

less than 1% -- Voluntary missing while headed back to RV, coupled with refusal to speak up even after weeks of LE searching and family distress

2% -- Voluntary missing or true accident from earlier in the day -- after cctv capture but before the RV parked for the stroll -- but with RT unwilling for some reason to acknowledge even at the risk of being unfairly suspected

4% -- Involuntary departure after heading back toward RV -- either vehicle accident with no evidence left behind, or abduction, possibly involving medically-caused disorientation on her part

10% -- Involuntary harm/hidden near RV/stroll area

76+% -- Involuntary harm/hidden earlier in the day -- after cctv capture but before the RV parked for the stroll

5% -- something else not yet thought of

ALL IMO MOO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Can you explain why you got a feeling that these desert spots are where dangerous types lurk?

I can’t speak for him but articles certainly portray the area as risky for crime. I know I posted a link earlier to crime in needles increasing by 56% .

Here’s a bit about it from this article. Holes in the Desert: A Mojave Crime Compendium


Over 500,000 vehicles travel through the MNP annually. Many come here specifically to recreate, but others simply use its paved thoroughfares -- the Kelbaker and Kelso-Cima roads -- as a convenient, uncongested shortcut route to Vegas from points further north or south. Speeding over the 55 mph speed limit, which is still higher than most national parks, results in one of the more commonly cited infractions by law enforcement. Close proximity of the two major interstates and an expanse of perceived “nothingness” along the preserve's more accessible borders.

And here:
Murder in the Mojave: Homicides and Body Dumps in the California Desert


But as much as art has imitated life, life has imitated art; many believe that the area's reputation as a body dumping ground has only encouraged other criminals to leave remains in this region.

The body of Beddie Walraven was in the Mojave Desert for 25 years before it was discovered. That of Azita Nikooei, whose fiancé was convicted for her murder even without remains, was left undiscovered for 12 years. The family of Kathryn Barrett spent eight years waiting for her remains to be found. There are currently 120 missing persons in San Bernardino County. How many of them might be waiting in the Mojave Desert?

 

[GordianKnot]

I think the language is confusing. LE did not say they found no evidence she’d ever been there.

I agree they are looking at all angles.

Actually, they did. LE's language has been pretty unambiguous:

Daily searches suspended for bikini-clad woman who vanished in Mojave Desert
"There has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days," the sheriff's office said.

News Update!!: Essex, CA: Search for hiker Barbara Thomas continues Friday as a week has pass being missing.
For a week, search and rescue crews as well as search dogs have been searching the desert area for a week and have not found any trace of Barbara Thomas.

According to the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department, there has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days as temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees.

JMO.

 

[Marulinka]

Sadly I don’t think we know much of that.

I’ll add this though. Personally I’d think rather than she being a target in her bikini I’d think their 5th wheel would be the biggest target for theft. I wonder if she’d feel safe and approach the rig if another vehicle was parked nearby that wasn’t there before.

Very good point there. Although again, any kind of struggle or break in attempt at the RV would surely have left at least few traces..?

*Edited for spelling

 

[LietKynes]

Ranked Probabilities IMO MOO

less than 1% -- Animal attack/carried off while headed back to RV, but with no screams, no blood, and no dropped hat, mug, visible scuffle or tracks etc

less than 1% -- Medical issue/animal bite/sting while headed back to RV, that somehow included the ability to hide nearby in rocks etc, well enough that searchers have not found

less than 1% -- Voluntary missing while headed back to RV, coupled with refusal to speak up even after weeks of LE searching and family distress

2% -- Voluntary missing or true accident from earlier in the day -- after cctv capture but before the RV parked for the stroll -- but with RT unwilling for some reason to acknowledge even at the risk of being unfairly suspected

4% -- Involuntary departure after heading back toward RV -- either vehicle accident with no evidence left behind, or abduction, possibly involving medically-caused disorientation on her part

10% -- Involuntary harm/hidden near RV/stroll area

76+% -- Involuntary harm/hidden earlier in the day -- after cctv capture but before the RV parked for the stroll

5% -- something else not yet thought of

ALL IMO MOO

BBM

Am going with the bolded portion.^^^
If she was out there for the stroll... sar dogs should have found something.

Question : Is it possible for a person (random abductor) to 'plant' anything that would indicate to sar dogs that a person was there -- when in fact they weren't ?

Maybe she was actually abducted, but instead of on the walk in the desert-- it happened soon after the last sighting of her in the a.m. ?

 

[PaulR]

Question : Is it possible for a person (random abductor) to 'plant' anything that would indicate to sar dogs that a person was there -- when in fact they weren't ?

I think the bigger question is, could someone do it in a convincing way? I have my doubts.

 

[Liwthe]

Actually, they did. Their language has been pretty unambiguous:

Daily searches suspended for bikini-clad woman who vanished in Mojave Desert
"There has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days," the sheriff's office said.

News Update!!: Essex, CA: Search for hiker Barbara Thomas continues Friday as a week has pass being missing.
For a week, search and rescue crews as well as search dogs have been searching the desert area for a week and have not found any trace of Barbara Thomas.

According to the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department, there has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days as temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees.

JMO.

Every one of those refers to the search party. It doesn’t mean that LE doesn’t believe she was there. It means they neither found BT or any trace of her which is not totally unusual in a search of a missing person. Perhaps you interpret it differently.

These are all media reports, and they are summizing the LE’s statements that BT hasn’t been located. It is in the media’s best interest to use language that enflames the most interest. At this point, the media (as usual because it makes the best story) are certainly encouraging the idea of RT murdering her.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, it’s possible they can’t prove it, but that is what building a case is about. They say they don’t suspect it. Can you give examples of where the police said they didn’t suspect foul play as a ruse to trip up a suspect even when they did? I can’t see the benefit personally, but I can imagine a lot of harm/hurt to family members.

Not as a ruse, but it's not uncommon for LE to suspect someone and not reveal that information to the public.
Sometimes it's because they don't want the suspect to know he or she is a suspect. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Actually, they did. LE's language has been pretty unambiguous:

Daily searches suspended for bikini-clad woman who vanished in Mojave Desert
"There has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days," the sheriff's office said.

News Update!!: Essex, CA: Search for hiker Barbara Thomas continues Friday as a week has pass being missing.
For a week, search and rescue crews as well as search dogs have been searching the desert area for a week and have not found any trace of Barbara Thomas.

According to the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department, there has been no evidence of Barbara Thomas located on previous days as temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees.

JMO.

That's not the same as not finding any evidence that she had ever been there at all, though.
To me they are saying they have found no trace of her during their search to locate her, on any of the days they were searching. Imo

 

[Liwthe]

Ranked Probabilities IMO MOO

less than 1% -- Animal attack/carried off while headed back to RV, but with no screams, no blood, and no dropped hat, mug, visible scuffle or tracks etc

less than 1% -- Medical issue/animal bite/sting while headed back to RV, that somehow included the ability to hide nearby in rocks etc, well enough that searchers have not found

less than 1% -- Voluntary missing while headed back to RV, coupled with refusal to speak up even after weeks of LE searching and family distress

2% -- Voluntary missing or true accident from earlier in the day -- after cctv capture but before the RV parked for the stroll -- but with RT unwilling for some reason to acknowledge even at the risk of being unfairly suspected

4% -- Involuntary departure after heading back toward RV -- either vehicle accident with no evidence left behind, or abduction, possibly involving medically-caused disorientation on her part

10% -- Involuntary harm/hidden near RV/stroll area

76+% -- Involuntary harm/hidden earlier in the day -- after cctv capture but before the RV parked for the stroll

5% -- something else not yet thought of

ALL IMO MOO

Can I ask if you researched data for these percentages?

It would be great to get actual data on how often these things occur to see the real likelihood of each, wouldn’t it?

 

[Liwthe]

Not as a ruse, but it's not uncommon for LE to suspect someone and not reveal that information to the public.
Sometimes it's because they don't want the suspect to know he or she is a suspect. Imo

Yes. But I’m trying to research if they actually lie to the public in their statements. I’ve been trying to find evidence they do, but can’t find a single case. Every time they suspect foul play, they say so as soon as they know, and before they are sure, they don’t make a statement on it.

I was looking at the Dulos case. I looked at many others. Every time, they said foul play as soon as they knew, and didn’t say ‘no foul play’ beforehand as a way to get a suspect to tip them off.

If anyone can find a case where they do this, I’d love to see as I’m not a perfect searcher.

 

[neesaki]

I think it’s very unlikely that she was—but no, I believe it can be a very silent attack—visualize strong jaws with long fangs, closing around your throat. (I may have just given Roses another round of nightmares.)

But, they don’t attack humans often, and I doubt that the Mohave desert is prime territory for them—they hunt large prey primarily, deer, mountain sheep, etc.

P.S. I should say that I love mountain lions—magnificent cats.

Hey wary, You're not alone, I love mountain lions too. And tigers and bears...

As you say though, a mountain lion attack in the Mohave is doubtful.

 

[Liwthe]

Not as a ruse, but it's not uncommon for LE to suspect someone and not reveal that information to the public.
Sometimes it's because they don't want the suspect to know he or she is a suspect. Imo

That’s what I mean by ruse.

 

[LietKynes]

Can I ask if you researched data for these percentages?

It would be great to get actual data on how often these things occur to see the real likelihood of each, wouldn’t it?

I think after the quoted poster , A.C., stated "Ranked Probabilities" and followed up with IMO, MOO -- they are stating this as their opinion only.

Plus, the post A.C. ended their post with "... All IMO MOO".

Just pure speculation.
As we're all doing.

 

[crhedBngr]

More pictures .... and also added to media thread.

This is the side they walked .... if she has to cross the road to get back to the camper.

@DianaElaine : Thank you for all of your photos!

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes. But I’m trying to research if they actually lie to the public in their statements. I’ve been trying to find evidence they do, but can’t find a single case. Every time they suspect foul play, they say so as soon as they know, and before they are sure, they don’t make a statement on it.

I was looking at the Dulos case. I looked at many others. Every time, they said foul play as soon as they knew, and didn’t say ‘no foul play’ beforehand as a way to get a suspect to tip them off.

If anyone can find a case where they do this, I’d love to see as I’m not a perfect searcher.

Here's one example. The Lueck case.

Police arrest Ayoola Ajayi and seek aggravated murder charges in the death of MacKenzie Lueck
SABBM:
Nearly 24 hours before announcing the arrest, Brown had said there was no evidence of foul play in Lueck’s disappearance. Then, on Friday, Brown said breaks came when the Utah State Crime Lab confirmed tissue found at Ajayi’s home belonged to Lueck.

“This was outstanding detective work and cutting-edge technology,” the chief said.

 

[PaulR]

If they thought RT did it and were trying to make him feel confident, why would they tell him that he was deceptive on the polygraph?

 

[MassGuy]

Here's one example. The Lueck case.

Police arrest Ayoola Ajayi and seek aggravated murder charges in the death of MacKenzie Lueck
SABBM:
Nearly 24 hours before announcing the arrest, Brown had said there was no evidence of foul play in Lueck’s disappearance. Then, on Friday, Brown said breaks came when the Utah State Crime Lab confirmed tissue found at Ajayi’s home belonged to Lueck.

“This was outstanding detective work and cutting-edge technology,” the chief said.

Oh that’s right.

And not only that, but the Chief went on Fox News and said there was no person of interest, and the last person to contact her was being cooperative.

Almost simultaneously, law enforcement descended on the suspect’s house.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I don’t know the answer. But have this thought.

In the Mackenzie Lueck case I don’t know that they said they suspect no foul play in the beginning but possibly no evidence of foul play? I can’t recall. I don’t know that they said this to lie, but as they just didn’t have all the evidence yet.

Do you see them give lie detector tests often?

I would also imagine certain detectives may suspect foul play in cases early but the official statement is otherwise.