CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #16

[MaryNo]

That caulking looks pretty old/stained on what would be our right side of the toilet, sealing toilet and floor. So, if anything was replaced, it may be tank, or the innards.

Edited to add: The toilets sold at Home Depot are such that the innards are "kits". It's not easy to buy simple parts as we did in the old days. Many are going to the water saving setups. When putting them in, the entire tank is place on the base, and screwed in. Basically, two parts, and a seal for the cistern. The whole thing is messy business if you do it yourself (We did a Kolar 2 yrs. ago, and a bit smelly)

Attached are two actual police photos of the upstairs hall bathroom that I pulled from the Disappeared episode.

I wonder if JuM replaced the toilet, just the tank, etc. I was just looking at toilets/tanks sold at Home Depot. American Standard and Kohler seem to be the most common brands sold at HD. Can anyone tell from the pictures of Bob's bathroom what kind of toilet it is?

http://www.homedepot.com/Bath-Toilets-Toilet-Seats-Bidets-Toilets/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ25ecodZbzbd/h_d2/Navigation?catalogId=10053&Nu=P_PARENT_ID&langId=-1&storeId=10051&searchNav=true#/?c=1

For one particular Kohler toilet (high efficiency round in white for $139.00), the reviews talk about a problem with the seal. Example below.

The seal between the bowl and the tank is a massive design flaw.
Sure it was easy to install, but to get the tank level and sealed properly was the tricky part.
I check on the "seal" every few days. To make sure it is not dripping.
No more Kohler for this guy.

 

[zwiebel]

Stupid question moment. When they say bike, they mean bicycle, right? Not a motorbike?

Along with being unable to swim, I can't ride a bicycle either, and that trail looks impossible for a cyclist to me. But as that could just be my cycling ineptitude, I have to check. I wonder if you could get a vehicle down that trail?

 

[Oriah]

Stupid question moment. When they say bike, they mean bicycle, right? Not a motorbike?

Along with being unable to swim, I can't ride a bicycle either, and that trail looks impossible for a cyclist to me. But as that could just be my cycling ineptitude, I have to check. I wonder if you could get a vehicle down that trail?

Which trail are you referring to, zwie? The one where the UID was found? They meant bicycles, yes. But many trails of that sort are able to accomodate vehicles of other sorts as well, even if that's not the intended purpose.

When I was mapping out all of the geographical areas of interest in Mr. Harrod's case (for the geo-location communities and flyers) there were probably five times as many of these type 'trails' as there were paved roadways.

You'd be amazed at how often people disregard the intended purpose of land use, both public land and private.

Long story, but earlier this summer we went out on a call for what we were told was a hiker, lost in a national park. Hiking and biking and equestrian trails everywhere, but no unauthorized motorized vehicle access anywhere. A big gate firmly locked at the entrance where this gentleman entered the trail system stating such- and the hiking trail clearly skirts the edge of the gate- it's about 4 feet wide.

Ummmm, yep. He claimed he didn't see the sign and drove around the gate in his volkswagon, kept on driving down the trail (doing a bit of trailblazing in the process) until he got stuck in a portion of the trail that was soaked and softened by rainfall. One of the reasons why heavy vehicles are not permitted, of course.

Anyway, we spent four hours trying to trail a hiker in a different area of the park, because it didn't occur to anyone that he may have driven on a hiking trail. The reason why he had driven in? Well, turned out he had some stuff in his vehicle he, ah, wanted to dispose of.

When vehicles are involved in cases where there is suspicion of someone being dumped, often they will find their way in the most unlikely of places.

 

[sreshowtime]

was wondering if any change in the bath room could have been something seemingly innocuous as a different toilet seat or tank lid...or even a change in a shower curtain...
something not so glaringly obvious to the casual observer?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

was wondering if any change in the bath room could have been something seemingly innocuous as a different toilet seat or tank lid...or even a change in a shower curtain...
something not so glaringly obvious to the casual observer?

Perhaps it was more than one single thing, where there was no single obvious elements but several small, seemingly innocuous things, that had changed.

Such as a combination of a different toilet seat, a different shower curtain, a small scrape in the paint and a nick in the floor tiles. Someone not familiar with the bathroom might not notice the changes and might attribute the small amounts of damage to normal wear and tear in a house that is 40+ years old. But to someone who had become familiar with that bathroom and knew that all those changes had happened in less than a month's time could put them together and recognise something far more sinister than normal wear and tear.

 

[believe09]

Perhaps it was more than one single thing, where there was no single obvious elements but several small, seemingly innocuous things, that had changed.

Such as a combination of a different toilet seat, a different shower curtain, a small scrape in the paint and a nick in the floor tiles. Someone not familiar with the bathroom might not notice the changes and might attribute the small amounts of damage to normal wear and tear in a house that is 40+ years old. But to someone who had become familiar with that bathroom and knew that all those changes had happened in less than a month's time could put them together and recognise something far more sinister than normal wear and tear.

There might have been physical evidence that made the conclusion that the bathroom was the crime scene as well-for example bodily fluids of some kind. In Disappeared Det R stated he was not going to share what evidence they found when they processed the house.

 

[sreshowtime]

yeah little things maybe...new towels? or new or missing rugs/bath mat? Was/is there a bathroom scale, trash basket....what might make someone go hmm, something is different in here beyond some honking obvious change..

i was thinking luminol

 

[zwiebel]

Oh gosh - there's a case here where a bathroom mat was found in a stream behind a house, in a bathroom repaired after someone went missing. I can't recollect the victim now, but it's definitely here.

Can anyone help me? I have two questions;

1)The metal sign with a pin in back that you pin to your lapel - badge or button in the US?

2) Is threatening to steal someone's crutches unless they behave themselves, in any way justifiable as a legitimate nursing tactic?

 

[sreshowtime]

A small 'sign' is usually referred to as a 'lapel pin' - google that- can be mass produced for various reason, groups, causes, etc.

Where as a badge/button has like a safety pin thingy and is usually wore ohmm, over the heart area, or sometimes employees will wear a badge on a lanyard
HTH

Yes, one may hijack crutches as warranted for treatment or sanity of said nurse...I believe the handbook states

 

[zwiebel]

Oh danke danke sres. Both for Bob's info and the nursing stuff!

Dang it, Mr Z's a patient and a half!

 

[Grainne Dhu]

yeah little things maybe...new towels? or new or missing rugs/bath mat? Was/is there a bathroom scale, trash basket....what might make someone go hmm, something is different in here beyond some honking obvious change..

i was thinking luminol

Little things missing that could have been stained with blood, perhaps. Things that would be easy to throw away.

It couldn't have been obvious, since the PPD was willing to wait around until Fontelle returned to California.

I do still think that it is possible that Bob may have sustained a closed skull fracture that killed him with no blood or very little blood (less than would be generated by a nosebleed, for instance). In a house that Bob had lived in for several years, it would be perfectly normal to find trace amounts of blood, particularly in a bathroom.

I keep going back and forth on whether Bob's disappearance was due to a confrontation that went wrong or if this was a hastily executed plan. Perhaps there was a confrontation that turned into a shove, Bob lost his balance, fell, hit his head and the other person in the confrontation panicked.

If that is how it went down and that person were to go to the DA, it's possible that the DA might not even file a manslaughter charge; the lowest possible charge would probably be along the lines of failing to report a death and/or abuse of a human corpse. The only way the DA would go with such a low charge, though, is if that person were to come forward soon.

The clock is ticking and with every tick, a tiny increment of choice is lost.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Oh gosh - there's a case here where a bathroom mat was found in a stream behind a house, in a bathroom repaired after someone went missing. I can't recollect the victim now, but it's definitely here.

Can anyone help me? I have two questions;

1)The metal sign with a pin in back that you pin to your lapel - badge or button in the US?

2) Is threatening to steal someone's crutches unless they behave themselves, in any way justifiable as a legitimate nursing tactic?

1) Could be either, depending on how formal the item is and the region of the country the speaker is from.

2) It's considered legitimate in this country. In fact, extended nursing facilities can put an alarm on a chair or bed so that if someone gets up who ought not, the alarm goes off (and plays a weirdly cheerful computerised version of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow").

Bribery tends to work better, though. "If you will do thus and so, I will fix your favourite dinner tonight."

I've been known to give the Spousal Glare of Doom and say "you do realise, don't you, that if you hurt yourself again doing that, I will never, ever let you forget it. And I will relentlessly mock you for it."

 

[zwiebel]

BBM. I think I need you, Grainne.

1) Could be either, depending on how formal the item is and the region of the country the speaker is from.

2) It's considered legitimate in this country. In fact, extended nursing facilities can put an alarm on a chair or bed so that if someone gets up who ought not, the alarm goes off (and plays a weirdly cheerful computerised version of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow").

Bribery tends to work better, though. "If you will do thus and so, I will fix your favourite dinner tonight."

I've been known to give the Spousal Glare of Doom and say "you do realise, don't you, that if you hurt yourself again doing that, I will never, ever let you forget it. And I will relentlessly mock you for it."

I'm not just doing the English moaner thing. Today I had to;

Discuss the erection of metal railings and help with measurements.
Discuss the building of a wall, and garden house repairs
Remove the entire contents of a garden house, on my own, with some objects weighing twice as much as me.
Hammer back the paving I dislodged moving the heavy objects
Go and buy and move the very heavy materials for those repairs, while taking care of my 'supervisor'.
All arranged by Mr Z . He doesn't want me to get bored.

Accompany my 'supervisor' to the clinic while he got his stitches taken out and nearly passed out.
Clean house, cook, look after Mr Z, walk the dog and, of course, do something for Bob.

I weighed myself today because my pants kept falling down. I googled it to get it into US weights. Ridiculous. I have been writing on another thread about a tiny, tiny person when in fact she weighs ten pounds more than me. I weigh 91 pounds today and that is embarrassing. I wish Detective Loomis could help me out with my dear husband - he almost salutes when I play a video with her in it!

I may be back to midget size (maybe Georgia's size, when she married Bob, we look about the same ), but I'm not giving up. I'm still here. Just.

 

[Oriah]

zwie, with all due respect....you may be best off taking the crutches and disposing them with the contents of the garden house in order to most effectively make your point.

 

[zwiebel]

zwie, with all due respect....you may be best off taking the crutches and disposing them with the contents of the garden house in order to most effectively make your point.

I know. Just can't do it though. Mr Z drives me to distraction and then I'll tell him something about Bob and he gets so upset on Bob's behalf...even the flipping dog (indirectly responsible for this leg breaking stuff) looks sad and comes and kisses us.

It's just me really. I've always been a very small person and always imagine myself a bit bigger. I'll throw away the scales and live in a dream world where I am 6ft tall, with proper hips and a derriere!

 

[zwiebel]

Apart from all that, I am still wracking my brains about the issues the latest news article have revealed. We have daughter PB saying she visited Bob at least once a month, probably twice.

We have best friend and neighbour PE saying daughter JuM and Son-in-law were closest to Bob, and theirs was the vehicle he most often saw on Bob's drive. We have an official document saying daughter JuM's adult son kept his computer at Bob's home – and in fact lived just around the corner from Bob, in a house Bob still owned, until it got paid for.

Yet none of them were familiar enough with Bob's house to notice the damage? Even though they knew he was missing and that was MOST unlike him?

Maybe some family members never used that bathroom when they visited. But son-in-law who did all the repairs in Bob's house? And son-in-law's wife, Bob's youngest daughter? She who was so concerned with the minutiae of Bob's house, from the state of his bedsheets to where he kept all his keys for his safes? Who was able to compile a 72-item list from memory, of what was in Bob's home?

I think daughter JuM and son-in-law were ideally placed to notice any damage in Bob's house, and let LE know.

But apparently, they didn't.

 

[believe09]

The idea that people would dispose of items pointing to a crime, or God forbid, a victim of a crime in a backyard is incomprehensible to me but then I come back to zwiebel's story. :hug: zwiebel.

 

[Oriah]

Yet...they do. All the time.

I often wonder about the other side of that emotional coin though, too. I mean, when possible, we bury our dogs in the backyard when they die. Those who have been cremated, we keep on a shelf-not in sight to casual visitors, but there all the same. I wonder if folks who commit crimes against ones they love are torn between wanting past mistakes out of sight? Like pitching a weapon off a cliff. Or wanting them near for the fond memories, like our pups in the backyard. I suppose everyone is different.

 

[believe09]

Yet...they do. All the time.

I often wonder about the other side of that emotional coin though, too. I mean, when possible, we bury our dogs in the backyard when they die. Those who have been cremated, we keep on a shelf-not in sight to casual visitors, but there all the same. I wonder if folks who commit crimes against ones they love are torn between wanting past mistakes out of sight? Like pitching a weapon off a cliff. Or wanting them near for the fond memories, like our pups in the backyard. I suppose everyone is different.

Yes, I guess you are right. There are all kinds of reasons to keep watch over someone. It seems like the obvious reason would be control. But maybe it is a way of having someone close to who was lost to you in life....or who had replaced you.


I never really thought about it before.

 

[Oriah]

Yeah. Then again, I think every trash bag on the side of the road needs looking at, so I may be a bit jaded.