CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

[Cubby]

Page 50, line 3. Just to clarify, it is not mentioned what type of attorney AH requested a referral. It just reads "attorney". Civil, criminal, family, or otherwise is not mentioned.

 

[believe09]

Page 50, line 3. Just to clarify, it is not mentioned what type of attorney AH requested a referral. It just reads "attorney". Civil, criminal, family, or otherwise is not mentioned.

boy did I make a leap, lol.

Anyone think EA recommended Julia Kemp?

 

[Cubby]

boy did I make a leap, lol.

Anyone think EA recommended Julia Kemp?

BBM. No. I'm going to guess for ethical reasons, EG did not actually offer any names but suggested AH seek a referral elsewhere.

 

[Cubby]

According to Andrew's sworn statement here, his depo, he had 10 conversations with PB about the house and that the co conservators threatened foreclosure.

If we assume that is the truth, then they were slowly pursuing him for the huge some of money associated with the house. I wonder about the loans that totalled over 100k-I guess we should assume that they are slowly pursuing those? At least that demonstrates some fiduciary responsibility if it is true!!

Weird he can remember he had 10 conversations with PB about the mortgage but not where hundreds of thousands of dollars are. whatever.

I'll be honest. I doubt Andrew's sworn statement his grandfather came to him with all kinds of creative financing suggestions. I do not buy it for a second. I think Andrew presented some creative financing to his grandfather. Something tells me it is possible Andrew had scams going on with piggy backed loans from multiple banks.

I sure as heck hope LE has subpeona'd AH's banking records and records with regards to what looks like some kind of deed juggling.... something very fishy is going on here.

 

[believe09]

J.K- "...if you are representing to me at this time that everything in this deposition will remain confidential then we would be happy to discuss these things."

E.A." This is the United States of America. This is a public proceeding. This isnt a communist country. You know, unless there is some kind of protective order brought on your part, I am entitled to an answer....I am not hear to try and browbeat you. My job is to find out what happened to the money, what happened to the houses and what were the terms. There is no magic here."

J.K. "Well I am entitled to an answer from you. Is it your intention..."

E.A. "I am taking a deposition."

JK "..make all of this public."

Page 38

JK "Even in America there's a right to privacy and confidentiality and the settlement agreement will be made available to you but you have an obligation to maintain the confidentiality of that document as well.

EA " I am not a signatory. This is all news to me."

So, clearly Mrs Harrod and EA had not seen this agreement.

 

[believe09]

What has me confused is that the depo says the house was being quitclaimed, presumably at the time of the super secret agreement.

But it wasnt. It was quitclaimed in April of this year.

:waitasec:

OK, in the depo there is much sparring over the term "back to" in regards to the house on Windflower. The house that has a super secret agreement attached to it...(where is the eyeroll smiley?)

Paraphrase. JK's contention was that the trust never owned the house so Andrew couldnt have given the house "back to" the trust or quitclaimed it "back to" the trust.

BUT according to Ms Kemp, the house was quitclaimed TO the Harrod Family Trust at the time of the agreement or the deposition.

Umm, no it wasnt. Can anyone weigh in on why it likely didnt happen then and why it was quitclaimed after the hearing in April of this year?

 

[Cubby]

Maybe AH couldn't quitclaim a house to the trust when the secret settlement was made because at that time the home had a lien or liens from other interested parties which weren't resolved until April of this year?

I'd love to know how many liens were on the house that was owned by the trust in one breath, not owned, and then owned again.

A lot of goofy back and forth on that. Very strange.

 

[believe09]

Maybe AH couldn't quitclaim a house to the trust when the secret settlement was made because at that time the home had a lien or liens from other interested parties which weren't resolved until April of this year?

I'd love to know how many liens were on the house that was owned by the trust in one breath, not owned, and then owned again.

A lot of goofy back and forth on that. Very strange.

You are so smart. I wonder.

 

[Cubby]

Those were just questions which came to mind reading the deposition.

I'd think if a member of my family were missing and I had nothing to hide, I'd want everything out in the open. Immediately.

There is a reason Andrew was so secretive and evasive, why?

 

[believe09]

That's right, I mean to count the I dont knows and the I cant recall etc...it looks like the depo ran about 90 minutes, right?

I got about 27. Anyone else?

 

[SuziQ]

I'll be honest. I doubt Andrew's sworn statement his grandfather came to him with all kinds of creative financing suggestions. I do not buy it for a second. I think Andrew presented some creative financing to his grandfather. Something tells me it is possible Andrew had scams going on with piggy backed loans from multiple banks.

I sure as heck hope LE has subpeona'd AH's banking records and records with regards to what looks like some kind of deed juggling.... something very fishy is going on here.

I agree. Did you catch the mention of the emails supposedly from Bob and Andrew admitting that Bob was not an email type of person? IMO, insinuating that the emails were not sent by Bob. I think there may have been some financial instructions given by someone pretending to be Bob.

 

[SuziQ]

Oh and the inventory list from Hell stated the computer in Bob's house belonged to Andrew. Wonder how much Andrew used that computer. Gotta get the IP addresses correct you know.

 

[believe09]

More regarding the secret agreement-

JK "It can be subpoenaed, it can be introduced for those reasons. There's obviously no prohibition for that it's not to become a public document. And it's not just that's our contention...the trust is under compulsion at this time to maintain that document as a confidential document and there could be repercussions to the trust for disclosing those documents as well..."

I wonder what the repercussions to the trust would be if the secret agreement created by the co conservators on behalf of Bob's Trust should become public :waitasec:

This is so weird.

 

[believe09]

examination on Andrew's understanding of Bob's wishes-

TM "...What's your understanding of what your grandfather's intent was with respect to the promissory note and deed of trust that you signed to secure the promissory note?"

AH "He told me on many occasions it would be forgiven."

TM "Was that ever put in writing?"

AH "Not that I am aware of."

According to PB's testimony in BL's trial that Bob documented loans. OK, well then why would this forgiveness be excepted? What other Harrod family members have been told their debts went away upon the DEATH of Bob??

 

[Cubby]

IMO AH's hands are as dirty in this as his fathers are. In fact, I wonder if there was some kind of illegal activity on AH's part, some kind of white collar crime, that father and son had to ensure Bob did not find out about. Maybe adding his new wife, if an accountant was going to go through Bob's assets would have uncovered this something.

There is a whole lot more here than meets the eye, imo. And I am not liking it one bit.

 

[shefner]

Can it get any plainer?

Bob's family did him in....

 

[Opie]

Thanks to all the folks who have commented on the deposition, all 28 pages of it. I read through it, but am not terribly financially or legally savvy. Even to me though, it sure sounded like there is way more to this than we had known before.

Thanks again to for that link.

The plot keeps thickening. Sure hope we are able to slice through it soon.

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's a 28MB PDF file so I can't attach it, here's a link to download it:

http://www.websleuths.com/cases/harrod/AHDepoWS.pdf

The thank you button wasn't enough.

I'm only part of the way through the deposition and already my eyes are like saucers and I'm going WOW! The odd thing is, none of it is unexpected or anything I hadn't already speculated on. It's just that seeing it in black and white like that...

Poor Bob. Poor Fontelle.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I dont know-does this change the equation for anyone else? I mean, I was still fence sitting on the potential that the person last known to be seen with Bob might have done something impulsively that he couldnt undo. But there is something very very dark about taking financial advantage of Bob's disappearance to not pay the mortgage.

I mean the co conservators were not appointed until March 2010. After being denied 3 times IIRC.

No one should have been discontinuing their obligations, but I dont live like they do.

I think the only thing that happened on 27 July 2009 that wasn't planned was the housekeeper's visit.

And I think she had a close call. A very close call. She is very, very lucky that enough cleaning up had already taken place that day.

 

[GrainneDhu]

IMO AH's hands are as dirty in this as his fathers are. In fact, I wonder if there was some kind of illegal activity on AH's part, some kind of white collar crime, that father and son had to ensure Bob did not find out about. Maybe adding his new wife, if an accountant was going to go through Bob's assets would have uncovered this something.

There is a whole lot more here than meets the eye, imo. And I am not liking it one bit.

All of this is a powerful argument for giving one's loved ones regular gifts while alive but leaving all of one's financial assets to charity on death.

Inadvertently, Bob created a powerful incentive for his own death. Most people would never see it that way but most people aren't his three lovely daughters.