CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

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Thanks to four_seasons who forwarded me to new video footage of the hotel's interior shot by Chinese amateurs. Not sure if any of you have seen it but I'll post it here with translations.

Video is here : [ame="http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwNzg4NTc2.html"]蓝可儿塞西尔酒店揭秘 - 还原蓝可儿生命最后旅程所在地—在线播放—优酷网,视频高清在线观看[/ame]

Now this is video footage taken inside the hotel, going up the fire escape ladder, stairs, etc. but they are all mixed in with Chinese commentary/words.
I think the video footage itself is pretty self-explanatory. So I'll translate the main points iterated in the videos through words/commentary with some markers of time during the video:

"The hotel is pretty empty this time. Feels deserted and cold inside.
We will start filming from the lobby. The aim of this video is not to do sleuthing work but to allow our viewers to have a better feel of what the hotel is like.

(1.24) The hotel was built in 1927 in downtown LA. It is shaped in an E - 1 main corridor/walkway internally linking 3 main parts of the building... etc.

(1.42) Here is the front, side and back view of the hotel.

(1:52) From the back view of the hotel, we can spot the fire escape stairs with the ladder at the top of the stairs leading to the roof.

From the front view of the hotel, we can see how old and dated the hotel looks.
Inside the hotel, it looks just as dated and old. Only the lobby looks good.

Now we will walk into the hotel entrance from the main street. And now when we enter it, we see the lobby, with the mezzanine lounge upstairs and the hotel elevators.
Here we can see there are only 2 elevators in this entire hotel.
Elisa was probably in the left elevator in the CCTV footage, as we can see here.

Entering the lift, and then going to our room.

There is a small wardrobe/storage space in the room. Room is very small, cramped. Shower/toilet facilities are very basic. A big contrast indeed between the condition of the rooms and how the hotel lobby looks.

Now let's exit the room and take a walk around the E shaped formation of our floor walkways/corridors. We have provided a portion of the fire escape floorplan in the corner of the video clip to illustrate to you which part of the floorplan we are currently walking through.

(3:06) We start at the 14th floor, at where the fire escape stairway is located on this part of the floorplan.

Walking from here we pass the numerous rooms and reach the main corridor linking all 3 main parts of the building.

(3.36) None of the rooms on our right are guest/residential rooms. They are all common rooms like toilets, showers, etc. In other words, anyone can use these rooms that we pass by on the right.

(3.39) Here we pass the hotel elevators on our left. and we see that round mirror opposite the elevator.

(3.46) Now we continue walking down the main corridor/walkway, past the elevators on our left, and we get to the stairs. Now we're on the 14th floor, but if this was the 15th floor, these stairs would lead straight to the roof door, which is locked and fitted with alarm and that only hotel staff can access. And we continue walking past the stairs and go past the guest rooms, coming to the end of our walk here.

(4.16) Next we will be exploring the elevators. Finding out how the buttons work, what we can see, etc.

(4.35) We found that the elevator door stays open, not even after we have pressed several floor buttons. The only way to get the elevator door to close is if we press the Door Close button at the bottom, or if someone on another floor has pressed the elevator button outside the elevator to signal the elevator to go to their floor.

(4.50) There are only 2 buttons on the panel outside of the elevator. Up or down.

(5.08) We found that Door Hold button works. Once pressed when the door is closing, the door will open up fully once again.

(5.29) We show you how it'd look to Elisa when she looked out of the elevator to see both sides adjacent to where she was.

As we can see, no matter how far we stuck our head out of the elevator to look both sides, it is still impossible to see everything that is outside the elevator.

(5.33) As we can see here are 2 blind spots on either side of the elevator. So no matter how far I stuck my head out to look both sides, no matter how slowly I did this, no matter how much slowly and carefully I looked, I still couldn't see what was in those 2 blind spots..

(6.10) There are a few possible routes to get to the roof.

(6.21) This is the 1st possible route. I have used a black square on the floorplan to indicate this. It is also the place where we started this video tour of the 14th floor earlier on.
(6.28) This is what the ladder to the roof looks like from here.

(6.37) There are other fire escape stairs and ladders that lead to the roof. This is the 2nd possible route to the roof, indicated by a black square on the floorplan.
(6.40) This is what it looks like.

(6.47) This is the 3rd possible route to the roof, marked by the black square on the plan. It is the 3rd fire escape stairs.
(6.50) This is how it looks like.

It seems quite difficult for someone to go up these stairs and ladders whilst carrying a corpse.

(7.02) The 4th route to go up to the roof is much easier than climbing fire escape stairs and ladders. It is this one - the main hallway stairs that lead to the roof via an alarmed locked door. Also this roof entrance is the entrance that is closest in proximity to the water tanks. We reckon this may be the most probable and easiest route taken by the perpetrator.

(7.12) Now we shall ascend the main hallway stairs that lead to the roof. We start going up the stairs from the 15th floor now. But we couldn't open the door as it was locked..

(7.33) We decided to take the fire escape stairs and climb up the ladder.

(7.39) After reaching the roof, we looked down the ladder and this was what it looked like. As you can see, it may be quite difficult for some to try to get to the roof like this.

(7.42) From the fire escape ladder, we had to walk about 30s to reach the water tank. It really is quite a distance. If someone was carrying a corpse doing this, it would take longer, and there would be a risk of being seen doing this.

(8.09) We caught sight of a pair of brown double doors on this building. We decided this couldn't be the same door as the locked, alarm-fitted roof door that we accessed earlier on via the main hallway stairs. Because that door was a single door, not a pair of double doors.

(8.26) We continue scouting around the rooftop and now we believe this little building here with a single door must be the locked. alarm-fitted roof door that we came to earlier on. We estimated this door to be about 25 metres from the water tanks.

(8.36) We turned back and saw that the building next to the water tanks has a red door at the top of a flight of red stairs, and this door is only accessible by hotel staff. There is a ladder right next to it, which we climbed up.

(8.49) We reached the top of the ladder and this is the view. This is a good vantage point of the entire rooftop of the hotel, as well as the top of the water tanks.

(8.59) It can be seen from this vantage point that to attempt to lower a corpse into a water tank from here isn't that hard. In fact it seems easier than to attempt to dispose of the corpse in the tank by climbing up the wooden ladder lying next to the water tank. So this could be a possible place where the perpetrator had disposed of the corpse into the tank.

We hope this video has helped you get a better idea of the hotel and help form your own judgment about what might have happened to Elisa."
 
Some asked for a timeline

85efe3cetd63bb59246be&690


Source: http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/2247091150
 
Beginnings of a time line of known aspects in this case. Everything below is from media sources quoting the police

Arrived in LA Jan. 26th via LAPD

Checked in to Cecil Hotel Jan 28th, checkout scheduled for Feb 1st via LAPD

Last seen in lobby by hotel staff Jan 31st via LAPD

Last contact with family Jan 31st via Vancouver Police

LAPD go public seek help in locating Elisa Feb 6th

LAPD release video of Elisa in elevator Feb 13

Found in water tank atop Hotel Cecil Feb 19th by hotel worker investigating low water pressure in hotel

What are some more basic questions we need to fill in the blanks?

Where did she stay during Jan 26-27?
 
More photos from the Chinese forum : http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2184711531?see_lz=1

These pictures are all large pictures so you can see things in a bit more detail.

I've provided my own translations for each picture's captions (if there were any) next to each corresponding link :

=====================================

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...02955fbb164afbfbedaa641bcd&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

=====================================

"Let's take a look at the fire escape plan for residents!"

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...f83fa07416d8f9d72a6159a7c1&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

=====================================

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...1697c0735321a4462309f7d338&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

=====================================

"Compared to the lobby, the hotel room is a dump. This kind of room would be comparable to one in China that would only cost around USD$20 to stay in.

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...097eb792b62fdda3cc7cd99e5e&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

=====================================

"Someone told us that the 15th floor wasn't for living in, but was used as a storage area."

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...03752be8f509fa513d2697c57a&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

"But according to my research, 15th floor should be a residential area. Now I'm no longer sure if Elisa's video was taken on the 14th or 15th floor. I'm feeling confused.."

=====================================

"Another picture of the water tanks on the roof"

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...905b232594a8773912b31beefe&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

=====================================

"Inside the water tank"

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...a7d1e1178cd043ad4bd113022f&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1

=====================================

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=%...2447606632d50735fae6cd3456&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1
 
The Hermit is an initiation process into Thelema orientated cults.

Http://thelemicgoldendawn.net

"The Thelemic nature of the Order system is threefold, that is, it has three primary Grades of Initiation called the Hermit"

Thelema is a religion based on the writings and ideas of novelist and occultist Aleister Crowley who is sort of a god to his followers. There are many different orders. Crowley is The same guy who wrote "Jephtha" a poem/prayer while staying in the Cecil hotel London in 1889 about a judge of israel who kills his daughter for the love of god. jephtha's daughter is named SEILA-- and is a anagram for ELISA. seila's story is in the Pseudo Philo to be read.

THE POEM

JEPHTHAH.

-Let my LAMp, at midnight hour,

-BEEN SEEN IN SOME HIGHLY TOWER

-Where I may oft outwatch the Bear

- The spirit of Plato, to unfold.

- What Worlds, or what vast Regions hold

- The immortal mind that hath forsook

- HER MANSION IN THE FLESHY NOOK.

- And of those Daemons that are found

- In fire, air, flood, or under ground,

- Whose power hath a true consent.

- With Planet, or with Element.

- Some time let Gorgeous Tragedy

- In Sceptr’d Pall come sweeping by.”

- “Il Penseroso.”


Now for LAM in crowleys works


“According to Thelemic legend, in 1918 Aleister Crowley came into contact with a interdimensional entity named LAM. Who by the way is a dead ringer for the popular conception of the ‘alien grey ‘ depicted on the cover of Whitley Strieber’s Communion. From this purported encounter, some have inferred that the industrious Mr. Crowley intentionally opened a portal of entry–through the practice of a magick ritual. The Amalantrah Working–which allowed the likes of LAM and other ‘alien grays a passageway onto the Earth plane. Furthermore, this portal may have been further enlarged by Parsons and Hubbard in 1946 with the commencement of the Babylon Working, thus facilitating a monumental paradigm shift in human consciousness. Sex and rockets”
Source
- http://www.excludedmiddle.com/LAMstatement.html
- http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/demonsindex.htm



This all seems to obvious.
So makes me wonder who orchestrated this.
LE must see these strange relations aswell
I mean ,.. Its L.A for crying out loud
Cant wait for the toxireport,.
But i bet it will be very dissapointing for many here.

<modsnip>
 
Was at a hockey game tonight and was thinking about the graffiti. I know there's been much conversation on this topic, and many elaborate theories. However, there are some things that I've been pondering that haven't settled in my mind yet so perhaps the folks here can provide some inputs (but not too many colorful scenarios, hopefully, just thoughts.) Perhaps this has been already be talked about as well in one of the many forums...

1. The phrase "Fecto C*nt Her Suma" on the pump-looking thing by the water tower and "Suma Fekto C*nt Her 2012" must have some type of connection. Either made by the same person or one tag inspired the other. However, why the differences in:
a. direction of letters (left to right versus up to down)
b. spelling of the word "Fecto"/"Fekto"

2. Is it confirmed that the words (at least "Fecto"/"Fekto" and "Suma") are Latin? I don't know Latin but using Google Translate, "Fecto" means "assuredly", "certainly", "surely", "surely it", "really" while "fekto" has no translation (maybe a misspelling if it was supposed to be Latin).
As a side, does anyone speak Spanish? For some reason, Google Translate says that "fecto" means "defect" in English, but that's only in Google Translate.

"Suma" appears to mean "sum" or "total" in both Latin and Spanish.

Does anyone know if this phrase (or some combination) would make any sense in Latin, Spanish, or some other language ("C*nt" and "Her" are probably English)?
That is, using my limited understanding via Google Translate, would this have something to do with "certainly, all her c*nt" (using Latin Google Translate) or "defect, all her c*nt" (using Spanish Google Translate, which I'm not sure about the translation).

As a reference to another site with a more colorful theory (Cobain murdered by CIA - Page 272 - David Icke's Official Forums), they translate the phrase as "In effect, a complete c*nt"

3. HOW DOES TUMBLR WORK?? Did EL have to manually choose reposts? Or can she have her account auto repost on people she follows (ie: she doesn't select particular reposts.) The reason I ask is one posting on Feb 1 (the day I'm suspecting she went missing and around the time the elevator video was taken, based on her activity on Jan 31st and no more activity after that). This is a repost on Tumblr on Feb 1:

"C*nt again? It was odd how men &#8230; used that word to demean women when it was the only part of a woman they valued."
(http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/41989448922/****-again-it-was-odd-how-men-used-that-word-to)

Obviously the C*nt word is probably a commonly used word, but this Tumblr post came to mind when I was thinking of the graffiti (see point 2 above).


4. Anyone an expert in handwriting? Comparing the glass pic:
Z0azycM.jpg


to the pump/water tank pic
1361522179123201302220032567_46318.jpg


I see some interesting differences and possibly similarities.
On the glass pic, I see that the "E" in "Her" is different from the "E" in "Fekto". Why the change in how "E" was written in the same graffiti tag? More than one tagger?

The word "Her" in the glass graffiti appears to be somewhat similar in writing style to phrase written on the pump. However, the rest of the glass graffiti phrase appears to be written differently from the pump phrase. Some possible differences include:
a. "U" is different. Glass has a little tail on the right while the pump doesn't.
b. "T" is different. Glass has that fancy top (like new times roman.. I wish I could describe fonts better) but pump has a straight top.
c. "M" might be different. Glass has more rounded corners, possibly indicating a single motion to create the letter.
d. "O" might be different. Glass has a thin top, possibly indicating that the letter finished at the 11:30 position. Pump has a bump at the 5 o'clock position possibly indicating a start/end at that point.
e. "a" might be different. Although both tops look similar, the pump definitely stops after the first across and down stroke before going to the left then down. The glass "a" might be a flowing letter where the round part of the a going in a clockwise manner (while the glass "a" has the roundish part definitely going in a counter clockwise manner.)
f. "C" and "N" are too similar in both pics to tell.

I understand that maybe there could be differences in case (eg: "u" has a tail but "U" doesn't) but I'm not sure if this would explain all the differences.

4. What kind of person would write such a graffiti tag? If it were Latin/English, some book smart/hipster/intellectual with a penchant for minor public mayhem? Most of the graffiti I see are pictures (often times lewd), initials, tag handles, or simple profanity. Yes, reproductive organs in a vulgar sense are mentioned but not mixed with Latin (let me know if you think it's Spanish.)

ALSO, I find it interesting that the 0 is the slashed 0 is used. I don't see that commonly used by people. I like to use it myself (after a taking college math classes) to distinguish it from the letter "O". What kind of tagger would use a slashed zero? Someone who's familiar with math (or just likes the slash zero)?

Maybe making a mountain out of a molehill but, like I said, I was pondering this while watching hockey. :)

My personal feeling is that these were written by 2 separate people.
You are right - the way these words were written doesn't seem to be the same handwriting - therefore, probably not the same person who wrote them all.

I have no idea what the phrase is supposed to mean. Or if it really is a phrase on its own, or just a collection of 4 key words - which means they can be written in any order - hence in one graffiti, it seems to read as "Suma Fekto **** Her 2012" and in the other it seems to be read as "Fecto **** Her Suma".

Could it be a sort of a mishmash of different languages (not discounting colloquial languages as well)? You know like we have Spanglish, Chinglish, etc... But of course Spanglish and Chinglish for instance, are more widely-accepted hybrid unorthodox languages that most people have heard of... I'm not saying this is definitely a hybrid language that your average person in LA would understand... but perhaps its like some kind of language that a certain group of people/friends made up between themselves and understand? It seems to be a bit of a Spanish/Latin/English hybrid thing...

Either way, it seems a bit like a word play to me by the person who wrote the graffiti. Can't tell if which one was the first, and which one was "copied" or word-played with later (i.e. words jumbled up to form a slightly different phrase, hence maybe meaning a slightly different thing from the first??)

The graffiti is certainly interesting. I wish someone was an expert on codes and could somehow find out what this means :)

But also, am not sure if it has any relevance to Elisa's case. Although of course, there's always a possibility that the people who wrote the graffiti were somehow involved with Elisa in some way. Whether they knew the people who did, or if they knew her themselves.
 
The graffiti is certainly interesting. I wish someone was an expert on codes and could somehow find out what this means.

Been there done that
How about

Fecto = antibiotica
C***
her
Suma = Fijian god

Thus

"God disinfect her c***"

But then again,.. It could also be ?
".......... Was here 2012/13"

Now to think of it that sounds more logical. FECTO SUMA might be a name,,. so SUMA FECTO WAS HERE,..
VERY common tag yes.




The grafitti on the glass somebody posted is obviously not the same handwriting.
Note: Even my granma can tell :D
 
Been there done that
How about

Fecto = antibiotica
C***
her
Suma = Fijian god

Thus

"God disinfect her c***"

But then again,.. It could also be ?
".......... Was here 2012/13"

Now to think of it that sounds more logical. FECTO SUMA WAS HERE,..
VERY common tag yes.


Now this is a hunch,.. Dont get all girly over it people.

The grafitti on the glass somebody posted is obviously not the same handwriting.
Note: Even my granma can tell
Fecto can mean many things then... or could be even a part of a word but is used on its own to mean that word. like "perfecto".

quick google found that Fecto is a family name? (scroll down to the section labelled "Fecto relatives")

http://www.ancientfaces.com/surname/fecto-family-history/292893

Can someone be referring to someone by writing "Fecto"?

Also here, "Fecto" is apparently also a slang word meaning "a well-rolled joint"? LOL

http://www.soslang.com/term/Fecto

And my favourite... urbandictionary.com... also has a listing for "Fecto" meaning a "well-rolled joint"..

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fectoe
 
Fecto can mean many things then... or could be even a part of a word but is used on its own to mean that word. like "perfecto".

quick google found that Fecto is a family name? (scroll down to the section labelled "Fecto relatives")

http://www.ancientfaces.com/surname/fecto-family-history/292893

Can someone be referring to someone by writing "Fecto"?

Also here, "Fecto" is apparently also a slang word meaning "a well-rolled joint".

http://www.soslang.com/term/Fecto

Yes!

Suma Fecto must be a name


suma is a celtic name btw

Tho i doubt its (the tag) relevance to this mystery girl
 
Yes!

Suma Fecto must be a name


suma is a celtic name btw
Haha... it could be a name.

But judging from the sort of people that loiter around Cecil Hotel - drug dealers and drug addicts most notably - I am inclined to think that "Fecto" has something to do with drugs. Like a "well-rolled joint"... LOL

Also look... beer bottles were found on the rooftop too.. so clearly whoever frequents there also likes drinking.

Drugs, alcohol and sex (which explains the "C***" word on the graffiti)... not very odd preoccupations for someone in that area anyways. And certainly very typical preoccupations for even multi-millionaire rockstars, rappers, musicians, etc.

But say, since Fecto can be a surname, I hope the LAPD has looked into people who are known to live or loiter in the area who have links to families with Fecto as a surname.
 
Even the glass shows different handwriting for the "E". Split personality?

Based on snippet of her postcard, penmanship on tank looks like EL's.
 
I really don't think the graffiti has anything to do with anything. If the paint was fresh, yeah.
 
Feto = Ugly or Fetus (in Spanish)

Fekto = Fecto = Feto ?

suma = total

Fecto c*nt her suma = Her whole Ugly c*nt ?
 
I really don't think the graffiti has anything to do with anything. If the paint was fresh, yeah.
I know, but just playing around with the speculations on this thread about graffiti. I like linguistics and someone mentioned the graffiti again. I never gave that graffiti much thought but since all clues and news media have dried up and are just rehashing the same old stuff we heard lots of times before...

I think there is very little possibility that the graffiti is linked. Very little.
 
I really don't think the graffiti has anything to do with anything. If the paint was fresh, yeah.

Going along the assumption that EL may have been high, or in withdrawal, she may have seen the graffiti on glass and copied it.

Forensics should be able to determine if when the two graffitis were made.
 
I know, but just playing around with the speculations on this thread about graffiti. I like linguistics and someone mentioned the graffiti again. I never gave that graffiti much thought but since all clues and news media have dried up and are just rehashing the same old stuff we heard lots of times before...

I think there is very little possibility that the graffiti is linked. Very little.

One of the things about this case that makes it so confusing is, in my concept, the randomness of the encounter. This causes people to look deep, and when we look deep into anything we will find "strange coincidences".

For example; the last bookstore she ever shopped at was called "The Last Bookstore".
 
Going along the assumption that EL may have been high, or in withdrawal, she may have seen the graffiti on glass and copied it.

Forensics should be able to determine if when the two graffitis were made.

Well imagine they would determine that its hers,.. Together with all other coincidences.. Then its likely more a big fat hoax instead of her having multiple personalities.
There i said it.
 
One of the things about this case that makes it so confusing is, in my concept, the randomness of the encounter. This causes people to look deep, and when we look deep into anything we will find "strange coincidences".

For example; the last bookstore she ever shopped at was called "The Last Bookstore".
It's only human to want to see patterns everywhere.
We want to make sense of the world. So we go looking for patterns, similarities, etc.

Its like when you look in hindsight, it seems ironic that the last bookstore Elisa went to is called the "Last Bookstore". If she was alive and well now, nobody would think anything of that bookstore other than it had an unusual name.
 
Not to dispute what you've said but to be fair, nothing is conclusive about the cause of death or whether it was foul play or accidental, and because everyone has little to work on except the strange video, it is understandable that many then feel that finding a neat explanation to the video may be the key to unlocking the mystery.

I'm new here having been to other sites before discovering that the posts here are generally well-informed and of better logic. You do see quite many real stupid and uninformed posts at other places, but none here. All the posts here, be they postulating foul play, drug induction, conspiracy, demonic possession or whatever, do give some reasonable basis for their line of thinking.

Granted some may get over-imaginative or zealous in their postulations. But one must understand that we are all in a situation where we are trying our best working on very little to unravel this great mystery (and I can see that quite many have become obsessed with it too). So, when we come across a discovery or thought that we strongly feel might be of relevance, do we post it for the critical examination and comments of all here, or do we say "hang on, this may not go down well with others so I better not post it"? And if enough people chose the latter, will we not risk losing information that might turn out to be critical?

Stick to the facts. Yes, but what facts? Facts to something deemed acceptable, yes; facts to something not deemed acceptable, no?

For every over-imaginative postulation on the wild side, I have also read an over-imaginative postulation on the foul-play side. Given the understandable excitement that everyone is in, would it not be better to have some latitude both ways? What I do when I come across a post that I find unhelpful is simply to skip to the next post.

Just asking for a little tolerance sort of, without derailing the purpose of this thread. :)

What you write sounds very good and convincing, but partly inaccurate.

Nothing is conclusive? Not true. I can conclude that Elisa was in the elevator at the time of the video. I can conclude that she pressed the elevator buttons and waited for the doors to close. I can conclude she went missing on February 1st.

There are no stupid and uninformed posts here? It may sound good and appease people here, but it's not true either.

I don't think a few people are trying their best at "unravelling this great mystery". I think some people are using it to indulge in their fantasies. A coincidence is not enough to postulate a theory. Sure, you can argue that it resembles the movie "Dark Water", or that the numbers in the middle are similar to passages in the Bible that pertain to water. But it is a HUGE leap to imply that she killed herself based on these premises. In fact, you need to check your theories with known facts, think about the underlying assumptions, and to decide how likely these assumptions are. If she wanted to kill herself at that particular time in the video, why did she wait for the elevator doors to close? You can't explain everything away with, "She was crazy" (or pyschotic, or on drugs, and so on). In fact, I think it's an insult to Elisa's memory to do so, not to mention what her parents would think of people calling their child's death a hoax, or somehow they were responsible. A coincidence is not "reasonable basis".

Rather than posting whatever you can think of for "critical examination" from others, I think people need to use their own critical thinking skills before posting. Like I said, it's fine to post a coincidence for what it is - but leave it at that. If more facts come out that she was obsessed with bible passages and was suicidal, then posting a theory becomes better received.

This isn't to say foul play theories are better. There have been many conspiracy theories such as Asian triads, CIA, and so on that are technically foul play, but also fall into the "wide side". I think most people in the thread can handle the occasional far-fetched theory, but there's been so many lately that it's become cluttered. Perhaps a separate forum can be created, "Alternate Theories", and a thread created for the Elisa Lam case. I'm sure it would be popular.

There is one positive thing about the wild theories - I now have a greater understanding of how some juries can screw up verdicts. :)
 
One of the things about this case that makes it so confusing is, in my concept, the randomness of the encounter. This causes people to look deep, and when we look deep into anything we will find "strange coincidences".

For example; the last bookstore she ever shopped at was called "The Last Bookstore".

True true true

But there are some things that just go beyond the fronteir of randomness.

The bookstore name is not one of them
 
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