CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[kingsway]

One of the things about this case that makes it so confusing is, in my concept, the randomness of the encounter. This causes people to look deep, and when we look deep into anything we will find "strange coincidences".

For example; the last bookstore she ever shopped at was called "The Last Bookstore".

Also, the hotel was shaped like an 'E' - for Elisa hwow:

 

[FutzBucket]

It's only human to want to see patterns everywhere.
We want to make sense of the world. So we go looking for patterns, similarities, etc.

Its like when you look in hindsight, it seems ironic that the last bookstore Elisa went to is called the "Last Bookstore". If she was alive and well now, nobody would think anything of that bookstore other than it had an unusual name.

Humans love patterns, but they love random connections more. Examples include, and are not limited to; fish tanks, large bodies of water, and fire.

It is impossible to gather people around a fire, and not eventually have everyone just staring into the fire.

 

[Doruk]

Which makes me wonder, is LAPD so reticent in most other cases or is it in this case only?

And the American Media, are they like pressing for answers but not getting any, or are they not pursuing at all?

If LAPD suspected foul play or homicide, they would have alerted the community to be vigilant of possible perpetrator. The fact that they didn't suggests they think EL's death points to an accident or suicide.

 

[dotr]

I know, but just playing around with the speculations on this thread about graffiti. I like linguistics and someone mentioned the graffiti again. I never gave that graffiti much thought but since all clues and news media have dried up and are just rehashing the same old stuff we heard lots of times before...

I think there is very little possibility that the graffiti is linked. Very little.

Not that I want to go down this road, but - noticed the sad irony in the euphemism for the c word (" see ya next Tuesday) and the discovery of EL on Tuesday.

 

[Doruk]

What you write sounds very good and convincing, but partly inaccurate.

Nothing is conclusive? Not true. I can conclude that Elisa was in the elevator at the time of the video. I can conclude that she pressed the elevator buttons and waited for the doors to close. I can conclude she went missing on February 1st.

There are no stupid and uninformed posts here? It may sound good and appease people here, but it's not true either.

I don't think a few people are trying their best at "unravelling this great mystery". I think some people are using it to indulge in their fantasies. A coincidence is not enough to postulate a theory. Sure, you can argue that it resembles the movie "Dark Water", or that the numbers in the middle are similar to passages in the Bible that pertain to water. But it is a HUGE leap to imply that she killed herself based on these premises. In fact, you need to check your theories with known facts, think about the underlying assumptions, and to decide how likely these assumptions are. If she wanted to kill herself at that particular time in the video, why did she wait for the elevator doors to close? You can't explain everything away with, "She was crazy" (or pyschotic, or on drugs, and so on). In fact, I think it's an insult to Elisa's memory to do so, not to mention what her parents would think of people calling their child's death a hoax, or somehow they were responsible. A coincidence is not "reasonable basis".

Rather than posting whatever you can think of for "critical examination" from others, I think people need to use their own critical thinking skills before posting. Like I said, it's fine to post a coincidence for what it is - but leave it at that. If more facts come out that she was obsessed with bible passages and was suicidal, then posting a theory becomes better received.

This isn't to say foul play theories are better. There have been many conspiracy theories such as Asian triads, CIA, and so on that are technically foul play, but also fall into the "wide side". I think most people in the thread can handle the occasional far-fetched theory, but there's been so many lately that it's become cluttered. Perhaps a separate forum can be created, "Alternate Theories", and a thread created for the Elisa Lam case. I'm sure it would be popular.

There is one positive thing about the wild theories - I now have a greater understanding of how some juries can screw up verdicts.

True. Random associations and correlations, while interesting, do not equal causation.

 

[Doruk]

Well imagine they would determine that its hers,.. Together with all other coincidences.. Then its likely more a big fat hoax instead of her having multiple personalities.
There i said it.

To you because she may have written graffiti means her death is a hoax? :waitasec:

 

[FutzBucket]

If LAPD suspected foul play or homicide, they would have alerted the community to be vigilant of possible perpetrator. The fact that they didn't suggests they think EL's death points to an accident or suicide.

I don't believe the suspect is really a danger, unless you try entering his home at an odd hour, and then refuse to leave.

I do believe the suspect needs to be placed in a home where he can live a very structured life and be monitored.

 

[Doruk]

I don't believe the suspect is really a danger, unless you try entering his home at an odd hour, and then refuse to leave.

I do believe the suspect needs to be placed in a home where he can live a very structured life and be monitored.

Do you not agree that if EL was murdered because murderer thought she invaded his home that he's a physical danger to other people whom he perceives as "trespassers" too?

 

[FutzBucket]

Do you not agree that if EL was murdered because murderer thought she invaded his home that he's a physical danger to other people whom he perceives as "trespassers" too?

Absolutely. Especially now. I'd bet money he still lives there, and I'd bet money the next person that accidentally goes to his door he'll just murder in the hallway.

He'll open the door with a gun, ask then their business, and if they don't answer in 20-seconds, he'll just shoot them.

 

[littlegreycells31]

If EL was raped would being in the water tank affect that evidence or would they still be able to tell after all that time in the water or get DNA evidence? Anyone know?? :waitasec:

 

[FutzBucket]

Concept: the killer is an old man who happens to live where Rameriez used to live, and is sick of young people screwing with him. He gets a girl that's pratically blind without her glasses, doesn't believe she's simply lost, and leads her into the watertank.

 

[Marlon]

Could be just as simple as
They partied,
she had cardiacarrest? ii mean with drugs anythings possible right? (after using willingly or foul play, ...drink?)
( then kept her indoors,)?
then dumped her in the cistern (after cops didnt search appartments.)
I dunno

Wish i could advance time and check out the report, this driving me nuts :/

 

[RhiannonR]

I've been thinking today.

I believe her last post on her twitter was "SPEAKEASY"
So EL went to SPEAKEASY, "hoping no creeps will follow her" (late post on her tumbler)
It may be a creepy bar close to Cecil.
She got drugged with bath salts.
She went back to Cecil, body temperature shot up so that's why she wore shorts and flip-flops.
Negative effects of bath salts start to happen in the elevator.
She becomes too hot so goes up to the roof (or led there by someone) to cool off
Her clothes come off (this may not be true)
Sadly, had to go to a water tank (was the water cold?)

There is a popular speakeasy called Varnish not far from there. It's in the back of Cole's. It's fairly high-end and popular with young adults.

 

[FutzBucket]

Please have faith she wasn't on any drugs.

 

[FutzBucket]

If EL was raped would being in the water tank affect that evidence or would they still be able to tell after all that time in the water or get DNA evidence? Anyone know?? :waitasec:

This wasn't a sex crime. If it was, why did the suspect allow her to leave?

He releases her and gives her 20-seconds to leave.

 

[Marlon]

This wasn't a sex crime. If it was, why did the suspect allow her to leave?

He releases her and gives her 20-seconds to leave.

What is with the 20 seconds concept
.??

 

[kingsway]

IF Elisa were to have written the graffiti herself (which I think is extremely unlikely), she would have had to either: carry a spray can up the elevator in her pockets, found one on the 14th, 15th or roof lying around, or someone gave it to her.

She would need to know Spanish.

She would need to have no qualms about writing the word "C*nt".

If she was referring to herself, she would have been referring to herself in 3rd person.

She would need to have some sort of connection to 2012, even though it's 2013.

The spray paint can would need to be either clogged in the water pipes, potentially leaking dangerous chemicals, or lying around somewhere on the roof.

Most of all, she would need a reason. Has she written graffiti before? Why start now?

 

[littlegreycells31]

This wasn't a sex crime. If it was, why did the suspect allow her to leave?

He releases her and gives her 20-seconds to leave.

:crosseyed:

HUH???

I am referring to if someone raped her and killed her somehow and put her in the tank...would their DNA still be able to be found after her body being in the water for that long?

 

[FutzBucket]

What is with the 20 seconds concept
.hunt??

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM&feature=player_detailpage#t=83s"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

Watch starting at 1:24. Time it to a watch. Please, test this. It's exactly 20-sseconds till she gives up trying to work the buttons, which she does desperately. Unknown to her, the button for the "14" floor is not the button for the "4" floor, and the "Hold Door" button is not the "close door" button. The suspect has no idea what buttons she is pressing from his perspective, and he believes that her not pressing a simple button confirms she's a threat.

edit: start the clock when she enters the elevator, at 1:30.

 

[anansie]

Please have faith she wasn't on any drugs.

Actually, we can't be sure whether she has any substances (drugs, alcohol, poison, etc.) in her system or not until the toxicology results are out.