CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[findinganatta]

But still the nagging question of why not just throw the body down, given the hassle of carrying the body up to the water tank?

I have never felt that was a nagging question at all. Throwing her off immediately alerts police, they very quickly would determine that she was dead before she hit the ground, and the perp would be in the middle of an investigation (assuming he lives/stays there, a pretty logical assumption). That would be a really silly thing to do.

The water tank, on the other hand, is actually quite an ingenious way to hide a body in a building full of people. I can't think of a single other location that would hide the smell and effectively make the body disappear. If the person doesn't own a car or doesn't have one in town with them, the water tank might have been their only workable solution, other than to leave her body in her room, where it would draw attention within a couple of days.

 

[LittleWing]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8947800"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3[/ame]

Hey guys I'm still catching up, just spent hours reading thread three only to find I've still got 50+ pages to go!

As I've mentioned before I'd be up for starting a blog where we can better organize the details we have to help eliminate repetition and clearly show the facts,

I was thinking I could organize the posts by subject ie "Elisa's tumblr" "Elisa's personality"(info from friends, info gleaned from articles etc) "photos of Elisa" "how secure IS Cecil?" "Various theories" Etc etc.

I am going to need a lot of help with this though. I want to keep it as factual as possible and though we can cover conspiracy/occult ideas just to cover all the bases I am not interested in pursuing that line of thought.

So the help I'll need.....if you guys can compile as many facts into organized units, including photos and sources (I am HORRIBLE at these types of things and have always done badly on essays lol).

Also what's a good blog title?

I could also add different blog authors to help with updating the posts etc.

Please PM me or ask on here, I will keep checking back as I slog through thread #4 lol




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Qrious]

To me, the elevator video looks like she is either talking to someone that just used or is going to use the shared shower/bathroom.

She's standing outside the elevator facing away - this shows a defensive posture, otherwise she would be facing the elevator. She's facing away from the elevator, because she wants to know if anyone is coming. The threat isn't that serious in her mind, it's equivalent to a "creeper", whom she's handled before.

So as she's facing away:

i) A person comes along to the right and is going to use the bathroom (check the map), and looks at her strangely, as in, "what is this girl doing standing there, facing away from an open elevator door?". She smiles embarrassingly, and says she can't see without her glasses, making "swimming gestures" showing that she's blind without them. She explains in points, using her fingers for emphasis what happened.

ii) She's talking to herself, with one eye looking out to see if the elevator door will close. She makes exaggerated hand movements while talking to herself (which some people do).


Here's a theory:

She meets a guy in the hotel, and becomes attracted to him. They go to the roof/14th/15th floor together, perhaps they have a few drinks, and he tries to make out with her. In doing so, she takes off her glasses. But when he tries to have sex with her, she refuses and runs off. She makes it to the 14th floor (if she was on the roof or 15th, she goes down one flight of stairs to lose him), and uses the elevator to go to her room. She presses the buttons to make sure he doesn't know which floor she's headed to. The reason it doesn't close is because she presses the Door Hold button by accident. (either by carelessness or drunkenness)

Someone comes from the washroom and looks at her strangely, and she explains to him/her that she can't see without her glasses, and tells him/her something, using her fingers for emphasis. She then resigns, and decides to go back to where the guy was (possibly the roof), to get her belongings back. She meets her end.

This is one theory that would explain: i) why she was on the 14th floor in the first place ii) her movements in the elevator iii) how she ended up on the roof without the need for someone to carry her body

Neat theory, but there's a question. If indeed she had spoken to someone unseen on the right of the elevator footage, would police not have made that a priority while she was still thought missing, and found out who he was and interviewed him, unless that person was the perp himself?

As far I have read, police have interviewed all the residents at the hotel and have not changed their statement that they did not know whether she was talking to anyone or to herself.

 

[kingsway]

I have never felt that was a nagging question at all. Throwing her off immediately alerts police, they very quickly would determine that she was dead before she hit the ground, and the perp would be in the middle of an investigation (assuming he lives/stays there, a pretty logical assumption). That would be a really silly thing to do.

The water tank, on the other hand, is actually quite an ingenious way to hide a body in a building full of people. I can't think of a single other location that would hide the smell and effectively make the body disappear. If the person doesn't own a car or doesn't have one in town with them, the water tank might have been their only workable solution, other than to leave her body in her room, where it would draw attention within a couple of days.

I don't doubt this, but how can they tell? Does a body start to exhibit consistent markers when they die for someone to analyze, kind of like what they do with carbon-dating, but more precise?

 

[kingsway]

Neat theory, but there's a question. If indeed she had spoken to someone unseen on the right of the elevator footage, would police not have made that a priority while she was still thought missing, and found out who he was and interviewed him, unless that person was the perp himself?

As far I have read, police have interviewed all the residents at the hotel and have not changed their statement that they did not know whether she was talking to anyone or to herself.

They don't need to make a statement, regardless of whether that person is a suspect or not. They would have no way of identifying that person either, unless they came forward.

Where did you read that the police have interviewed all residents individually?

 

[Qrious]

I have never felt that was a nagging question at all. Throwing her off immediately alerts police, they very quickly would determine that she was dead before she hit the ground, and the perp would be in the middle of an investigation (assuming he lives/stays there, a pretty logical assumption). That would be a really silly thing to do.

The water tank, on the other hand, is actually quite an ingenious way to hide a body in a building full of people. I can't think of a single other location that would hide the smell and effectively make the body disappear. If the person doesn't own a car or doesn't have one in town with them, the water tank might have been their only workable solution, other than to leave her body in her room, where it would draw attention within a couple of days.

Yes, thanks, I did answer that question myself.

 

[Qrious]

They don't need to make a statement, regardless of whether that person is a suspect or not. They would have no way of identifying that person either, unless they came forward.

Where did you read that the police have interviewed all residents individually?

Let me find the link. I've been scouring all media updates and clearly remember reading it.

 

[catatonia]

I don't doubt this, but how can they tell? Does a body start to exhibit consistent markers when they die for someone to analyze, kind of like what they do with carbon-dating, but more precise?

She had to be killed right before being thrown from the roof, to make sure, her body's still warm enough - this would have been way too risky, or at least, that's what I assume. A fight (when the killer intented to throw her from the roof alive) is out of question, as it would have caused too much attention, she could have screamed or owerpowered the killer (maybe not like, but possible though) and ran away.

-> http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/estimating-the-time-of-death.html

 

[archivist]

There is also the possibility that entry into the water tank was entirely accidental, a result of an urban exploration (urbex) adventure gone wrong, like the incident in December when Nicholas Wieme was on a hotel roof in Chicago taking photos, and fell down a smokestack. Had he been alone, it could have been similarly hard to know how it had happened, and if foul play was involved.

 

[LittleWing]

Not sure how to post links on here, but here we go...

http://tccoel.blogspot.com


The Curious Case of Elisa Lam

There is so much to do I don't even know where to begin! Lol.

 

[houndstooth]

Hostels typically use an old, traditional key system, especially if they offer residency.

See, this is how I think she alerted the occupant. She stuck her key in the door, and jiggled it, and he thought she was picking the lock.

edit: I would focus on occupants living on the 14th floor, on that side of the hotel. The suspect probably lives alone and suffers from schizophrenia. I'd bet he wears a wristwatch.

I can't figure out where you are coming from.
She enters the elevator from the right. The direction she is facing when she steps out and is gesturing is to the left. This is also the focus of her peeking.

In light of that, what you are speculating doesn't jive.

It would make more sense if her focus was in the direction she first entered the elevator from, but it isn't. It single-handedly refutes she was being "followed".

 

[houndstooth]

I was reading the comments on the bottom of the page at the link you posted and 1 guy stated that he had been up on the roof before to see the sunset and that he had even seen someone living in the maintenance closet. So, I suppose if a person were to go up to the roof, it was no telling who they would meet up with.

ITA.
We've been told it was used by employees for smoke breaks. Guests for rendezvous and sight-seeing. Locals for gang meetings.
Dang, it's like Grand Central Station up there, supposedly. So it makes you
wonder who or when anyone felt good about doing something unseen as dragging a body up there, or coaxing her up there in some opinions and killing her or just coercing her into a tank that didn't have a ladder already propped up there.

In any case, the lag time is such, I would think it very difficult to find any witnesses to having seen anyone in particular that was coming or going on any particular night within a given 2 week span, by the time the reports are finalized narrowing down TOD some time in the future.

 

[houndstooth]

The Hotel Cecil in downtown Los Angeles. Health officials have lifted the "do-not-drink" order at the Hotel Cecil in Downtown Los Angeles.

here's a link:

http://www.i4u.com/category/elisa-lam

I also listened to the "class action lawsuit" and was puzzled.
It said guests of the Cecil. What about the guests at "Stay at Main"?
Did they have a separate water source? What about the coffee shop
in the lobby, did it have a separate source, also?

It makes it really sketchy that only guests at the Cecil would be affected,
eh what?

 

[Qrious]

They don't need to make a statement, regardless of whether that person is a suspect or not. They would have no way of identifying that person either, unless they came forward.

Where did you read that the police have interviewed all residents individually?

I found it. Below is the link.

Apparently, initial news out of Vancouver quoted Det. Tim Marcia as saying that investigators had no reason to believe Elisa's death was because of foul play. He also said, "We've done a comprehensive investigation with interviewing everybody at the hotel".

That news became distorted as "LAPD rules out foul play", prompting LAPD to quickly issue a denial.

http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx/story.aspx?ID=1897213

 

[Shlock Homes]

Perhaps her dramatic splaying of arms suggests she was saying to someone, "I.didn't see anything, I won't tell anyone, I just want to go back to.my room, etc.".

I don't think so. She walks away pretty casually. The whole time her body language doesn't exhibit fear or hesitation, with the exception of the beginning of the video when she thinks the elevator stopped working because of someone else. Beyond that, she acting more playful than someone who is afraid. If she was worried, she would have her hands up in front of her, in a protective stance.

 

[FutzBucket]

I can't figure out where you are coming from.
She enters the elevator from the right. The direction she is facing when she steps out and is gesturing is to the left. This is also the focus of her peeking.

In light of that, what you are speculating doesn't jive.

It would make more sense if her focus was in the direction she first entered the elevator from, but it isn't.

I'm not sure exactly what you're confused on, so I'm going to try to work on the perspectives.

She enters from the left, and is followed by the suspect. This is the best I can do to describe what I mean.

 

[houndstooth]

I'm not sure exactly what you're confused on, so I'm going to try to work on the perspectives.

She enters from the left, and is followed by the suspect. This is the best I can do to describe what I mean.

From the actual hallway perspective she ENTERS the elevator from the right.
Her focus thereafter is primarily to the left.
Thereby discounting she was being followed from behind because at no time does anyone cross in front of the doorway to the elevator.

 

[Qrious]

Perhaps her dramatic splaying of arms suggests she was saying to someone, "I.didn't see anything, I won't tell anyone, I just want to go back to.my room, etc.".

About her splayed hands I am rather curious.

Did she have naturally splayed hands, or were her splayed hands in the video entirely unseen before? Hope people who knew her can provide answers.

 

[FutzBucket]

From the actual hallway perspective she ENTERS the elevator from the right.
Her focus thereafter is primarily to the left.
Thereby discounting she was being followed from behind because at no time does anyone cross in front of the doorway to the elevator.

Okay, now you're talking stage-right and stage-left. In that case, yes, she enters from stage right, and so does the suspect.

Unless I'm still confused.

 

[bonchef]

Hi all, new to here, been reading since thread 1, but have a hard time catching up every post since #3, so please pardon me for repeated comments.

And I sincerely hope my first post won't come across as party-crasher.

My points:

1) the cheekbone of the woman in the video seems much wider than EL's. Though it could be the effect of the camera angle.

2) purely a guess - from what I learned from her tumblr posts and accounts from people claimed to be her friends, I have a hard time matching my stereotype of her personality with the slouchy posture of the woman in the video. FWIW, my stereotype stems from my acquaintances with CBC friends during my years there (specifically CBC female of Cantonese descent, into literature and movies, with family running a restaurant... etc, believe or not, I met three in 10 years, LOL).

3) LE could have released the video by mistake or on purpose and silence on the family (or were they?) could all be explained.

I actually hope someone can help refute my observations and confirm it was indeed EL in the video, as we don't have much info to go with on this case. I recall someone (EL's friend?) here initially said it wasn't her, but the discussion was focused on the shoes style and died off (on that note: I also agreed the woman in the video was wearing flipflop, not heels).