GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8

New Posts

Finally up to date and here for Classic and Cincere.

Thank you to @cuffem , @PommyMommy and @AmandaReckonwith for the detail in the threads, I would have been lost without you.

I'm holding on to hope, here. I can't let myself imagine a world where these two could get access to children again.

I thought there were standout bits for me. The joking about missing socks/missing kids. The provable lies about movements around the time the kids were reported missing with the neighbour's cams. The testimony of the kids was powerful, to me. I don't see any issues with the changing of the stories - these kids were scared. And they were still having contact regularly with their abusers. And yet all of them talked about not seeing the boys for months, about the boys going away because they cried too much.

I hope the jury sees it the same way.

I am sad they will never find the kids. Two kids that tiny, going to landfill, and nobody knowing to look for them? There'd be nothing to find after this long. Landfills are brutal places designed to smash stuff up and help it break down. <modsnip: Referenced information not accurate> It's upsetting, it messes me up any time someone puts a kid in the garbage, but I'm hoping that there will be some justice to memorialise them.

MOO
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One more thing, the story about JW restraining/holding the boys for up to an hour and screaming at them?

I'm looking to the case in my signature, that of Skyler, and all the other kids who are adopted or fostered and treated with restraint, brutality, food restriction, isolation, and other abuse. I think JW had read about this way of abusing kids as a 'cure' for supposed 'attachment issues' with adopted kids and found inspiration and validation for her harsh treatment of them, even if she wasn't a devoted follower of the ideology behind it. Perhaps I'm biased because this form of abuse is a pet issue for me, but I can't get past the parallels. The practice of holding a kid harshly for extended periods and screaming abuse at them is a key part of a lot of these cases.

MOO
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Websleuths is fact based and requires links to information stated as fact.

Please do not state information as fact or reference specific information without providing a link to MSM, LE, or a scholarly article to substantiate what you are posting. Friends or "I read somewhere" or "somebody told me", etc are not valid sources, they are rumor or hearsay.

Example: Someone earlier claimed that cadaver dogs are not used in landfill searches. That statement has been removed as it is not accurate, and this is why WS requires links to support such claims.

There are numerous sources that have specified that cadaver dogs have been used in landfill searches. It can depend on the policy of a particular agency or handler whether they allow their dogs to conduct landfill searches, but there are numerous examples in a google search that will confirm they are in fact used at times.

Cadaver dogs and landfills

Human remains dogs and landfills
 
iamshadow21 said:
One more thing, the story about JW restraining/holding the boys for up to an hour and screaming at them?

I'm looking to the case in my signature, that of Skyler, and all the other kids who are adopted or fostered and treated with restraint, brutality, food restriction, isolation, and other abuse. I think JW had read about this way of abusing kids as a 'cure' for supposed 'attachment issues' with adopted kids and found inspiration and validation for her harsh treatment of them, even if she wasn't a devoted follower of the ideology behind it. Perhaps I'm biased because this form of abuse is a pet issue for me, but I can't get past the parallels. The practice of holding a kid harshly for extended periods and screaming abuse at them is a key part of a lot of these cases.

MOO
Click to expand...
I am glad you mentioned this, I really expected Stallings to use restraint techniques as some kind of treatment for difficult children but she only briefly mentioned ii with CPS Barton.
 
Chelly said:
Reminder: Jury returns at 11 a.m. today (scheduling issues).
Click to expand...
@cuffem is right, the jury had a lot of evidence to work through and two defendants increases the time it takes to consider all the charges. If we do get a verdict today, that would actually be quick.

To me, the questions that came back to the Judge indicate they are coming back with guilty verdicts - JMO.

This has been a rollercoaster of a trial, at some points I was fearful the State's case was weak. But if you only consider the basic elements of the case, it's clear Trezell & Jacqueline are responsible for the disappearance of Orrin & Orson. They didn't walk out the gate of the backyard, weren't abducted by a phantom car/person lurking in the neighborhood.

At the end of this, my thoughts will be with the other four children. I want them to be able to deal with the nightmare that has been their lives, put it behind them and live a secure, happy life. I also hope there is reform in the Kern County system. Those two should never have been allowed to foster/adopt in the first place. Where was the due diligence on the County's part?
 
cuffem said:
I am glad you mentioned this, I really expected Stallings to use restraint techniques as some kind of treatment for difficult children but she only briefly mentioned ii with CPS Barton.
Click to expand...
Touching that subject with a ten foot pole would be a mistake. There's no way to really justify that, especially since she herself didn't identify any real diagnosed issues with either child, when asked by LE.
 
Knox said:
Touching that subject with a ten foot pole would be a mistake. There's no way to really justify that, especially since she herself didn't identify any real diagnosed issues with either child, when asked by LE.
Click to expand...
I think she only mentioned it to try and plant the thought in the jury's minds. She had to say something in regards to JW's abuse allegations by one of the children.
If my memory is correct she even tried to briefly explain the baby bottle blender food as a valid way to get a child nourishment.
 
Knox said:
... I was fearful the State's case was weak. But if you only consider the basic elements of the case, it's clear Trezell & Jacqueline are responsible for the disappearance of Orrin & Orson. They didn't walk out the gate of the backyard, weren't abducted by a phantom car/person lurking in the neighborhood.
Click to expand...
[snipped by me]
This is where I'm at.

I wasn't blown away by the prosecution but it really requires a suspension of disbelief to think anything else could have happened to these boys. I'm glad the jury didn't rush; I have much more confidence in their verdict knowing they were thorough and thoughtful.
 
UPDATE: Court officials sent an email at 8:52 a.m. telling media to arrive at Department 4 at 11 a.m. with cameras. The judge has previously said filming would only be allowed during opening statements, closing arguments and the outcome of the trial.

www.kget.com

West Trial: Media told to arrive at 11 a.m. for hearing

UPDATE: Court officials sent an email at 8:52 a.m. telling media to arrive at Department 4 at 11 a.m. with cameras. The judge has previously said filming would only be allowed during opening statem…
www.kget.com www.kget.com
 
Last edited:
cuffem said:
I am glad you mentioned this, I really expected Stallings to use restraint techniques as some kind of treatment for difficult children but she only briefly mentioned ii with CPS Barton.
Click to expand...
I think that would be a hard sell, given the rates of injury, death, and PTSD in kids who experience it, even when it's done 'right'. It's not good.

This resource below is a good one, if you want to know more about the harm that can be caused by restraint and seclusion of minors. The film is great, but it's absolutely heartbreaking, so only watch it if you're sure. The resources section has published articles, statistics, etc.

Stop Hurting Kids | End Restraint And Seclusion

That JW practiced a lot of the elements that come with discredited, abusive techniques like "holding therapy" really doesn't surprise me. They created a home more akin to a prison, where they were in total control.

MOO
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 101 more.
Total: 2,035 (members: 102, guests: 1,933)

Online statistics

Members online
102
Guests online
1,933
Total visitors
2,035
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
596,474
Messages
18,048,284
Members
230,011
Latest member
Ms.Priss74
Back
Top