CA CA - East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer *ARREST* #3

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Maybe we need a sticky for websleuths on general mental health information that can be a quick way for people to reference and learn should they want to?

I think this is a wonderful idea. Where would it go? Maybe as a sticky in the serial killer forum? Should we flag a mod to ask?

ETA: Flagged a mod to ask [emoji106]
 
Did I read that his mother worked at a Denny's restaurant? If so, I wonder how long did she worked there and which location??

If so, it's especially interesting as I stumbled upon a video mentioning one of his rape victims receiving a phone call (6 years after her attack) while she was at work at Denny's.

'Just coincidence?

Has this been discussed and I missed it?

Editing to add:

“According to the Bee, DeAngelo had a brother and his mother worked as a waitress at Denny’s.”

https://heavy.com/news/2018/04/joseph-james-deangelo-family-children-wife/

and almost at the end of this video (7:20 or so) "Crime Daddy" Holes mentions the work place of the victim as Denny's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-U3HhIwVD8

** I mean no disrespect, but Investigator Holes will forever be called "Crime Daddy" in my little mind. ;)
 
I agree that the SOL has passed for most crimes but there is the murder of Claude Snelling. His family will want justice also. It’s going to be interesting to see how they prosecute all the crimes that are still within the statute. I know many people say 72 is the new 52 but he could get sick and die sooner than later. The Grim Sleeper trial didn’t start for six years after he was arrested. Should they do one trial that will take years to happen or just start trying him on individual counts as soon as possible?

Our Sacramento DA said on local news that she is in conference with the other county DA's with an eye to doing one combined trial, probably in southern California as that's where most of the murders occurred.

I don't know if they've decided anything yet--I'm sure it will be in the papers once an agreement has been reached.
 
Did I read that his mother worked at a Denny's restaurant? If so, I wonder how long did she worked there and which location??

If so, it's especially interesting as I stumbled upon a video mentioning one of his rape victims receiving a phone call (6 years after her attack) while she was at work at Denny's.

'Just coincidence?

Has this been discussed and I missed it? (Or maybe I have misinformation)

It was Denny's in Auburn. It is in one of the articles I posted in the media thread.

And yes he called a victim at a Denny's and it was speculated he must have recognised her working there. I will try to remember where I saw it but it too might be in the media thread-maybe the Wiki GSK link that I posted?
 
It was Denny's in Auburn. It is in one of the articles I posted in the media thread.

And yes he called a victim at a Denny's and it was speculated he must have recognised her working there. I will try to remember where I saw it but it too might be in the media thread-maybe the Wiki GSK link that I posted?

Thank you !

I edited my post a bit with some links. I suppose Denny's locations were quite numerous during the time period but still "interesting" (imo).
 
Why would there be any need to convince a jury that he was the VR? The statute of limitations has long passed on those crimes.

All they need to do to keep this guy off the streets permanently is convict him of murder.

Snelling was killed with a gun stolen from one of the other VR burglaries. Find the VR and you find Snelling's murderer.
 
I think this is a wonderful idea. Where would it go? Maybe as a sticky in the serial killer forum? Should we flag a mod to ask?

ETA: Flagged a mod to ask [emoji106]

Thank you [emoji18]

I am not sure where it would go but your suggestion seems like an appropriate one. It could also be a sub forum. One forum could have the most recent articles regarding mental health, the prison system, murder, psychopathy and any recent studies. Another forum or sticky could have the terminology and articles defining and explaining each terms that we often throw around these boards. Brief synopsis and then links and references to how they are used, how they differentiate. It also be interesting to have another sub forum under this for the ways in which defense attorneys have manipulated, tried, or with due cause have successfully argued insanity defense or mitigating causes do to mental health. It would really be a way for the community to say “here is the link to the sub where you can quickly get versed in understanding the differences between Psychosis and x y and z.” So on Nd so forth. Just so we have a standardized place to refer individuals to and for us all to keep informed on these terms, how they are used, and how they have shifted and continue to change over time. Moo.


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Agreed. He also sounds more OCDP than OCD. There is a difference but culture at large never discusses this. Frustrating. Anywho, regardless, this wouldn’t cause him to murder. His being a psychopath would have.


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I've never heard of OCDP? Any chance you mean ASPD? My former father-in-law had some undiagnosed Cluster B personality disorder (almost certainly NPD, he was textbook, but that's very similar to ASPD) and my ex mother-in-law told everyone (and herself, I think) that it was OCD. It's weird to me also how often people blame completely unrelated behaviors on OCD... like it's the catchall mental health disorder or something, when really it's a very specific disorder with very specific symptoms. I agree with you: frustrating.
 
Speaking for myself only, I’m not jumping ahead to the the mitigation phase of the trial at all.

I’m just learning more about then intellectual and behavioral aspect of a person who commits crimes like these. But that’s just why I’m participating in these thoughtful discussions. I’m learning a lot. It gives me insight.

And yes, at the same time it’s also possible these mental and behavioral aspects could be used by JJD’s defense during a trial.

I agree. JMO, but my thoughts are "what" caused DeAngelo to become a serial rapist/murder is extremely relevant to any discussion about this case. I'm having a hard time understanding how discussing psychopathy is jumping to the mitigation phase, especially since there are very likely 0 examples of defense attorneys who have successfully used a defendant's Cluster B personality disorder (s) as a mitigating factor.

If some of us have jumped ahead in discussing psychopathic behavior as a "reason" for the crimes committed by the GSK, then we are in very good company. Attached is an article with a quote from a forensic psychologist who has studied serial murderers:

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Suspected-East-Area-Rapist-Golden-State-Killer-12866531.php
 
I've never heard of OCDP? Any chance you mean ASPD? My former father-in-law had some undiagnosed Cluster B personality disorder (almost certainly NPD, he was textbook, but that's very similar to ASPD) and my ex mother-in-law told everyone (and herself, I think) that it was OCD. It's weird to me also how often people blame completely unrelated behaviors on OCD... like it's the catchall mental health disorder or something, when really it's a very specific disorder with very specific symptoms. I agree with you: frustrating.

OCDP is different from OCD. I have terrible OCD. I often feel frustrated with how culture and media refer to OCD by using what is actually an OCDP personality. For example a friend might say “gosh I am so ocd. Like I can’t leave my room not perfectly clean”. In this instance, this need to clean is almost seen as a virtue. However, the ocd person has a thought that is obsessive that is uncomfortable and this leads to a behavior that is compulsive in order to try and reduce the anxiety. They are different. Sorry if this is a poor attempt at an explanation. In fact an ocd person is generally more likely to have behaviors and compulsions because they are scared of the “what if” .... rather than just a need to do something - ocd has the the element of intrusive thoughts “what if I murder my parents” this is simply an intrusive thought, and the discomfort of having something so dreadful even pop up
In ones psyche scares them to the point that while they know they would never do this, their magical thinking causes them to repeat or so some sort of behavior or ritual such as tapping, avoiding, making bargains with them selves etc that heir brain feels must be done in order to ensure their thought never comes true. the OCDP person doesn’t get intrusive illogical thoughts like this. They more have the need in their personality for things to be in their control and order.

Also apologies. I never reread what I type via phone so know some words and grammar are missing/ incorrect.

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OCPD, I’m reading up on it now that you mentioned it. This does sound more like JJD.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_personality_disorder

While I’m not a psychologist and I didn’t stay at a Holiday in XPress last night, this certainly sounds like it could be our guy.

“Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a general pattern of concern with orderliness, perfectionism, excessive attention to details, mental and interpersonal control, and a need for control over one's environment, at the expense of flexibility, openness to experience, and efficiency.”

Interesting that people with this could show alcoholism, workaholism and miserliness. Didn’t JJD drink at many of the crime scenes, too? And the miserliness could show as his compulsion to eat while at the scenes, too. IMO

Interesting!!!

ETA: More from the link:

“For people with this disorder, rigidity could place strain on interpersonal relationships, with occasional frustration turning into anger and even varying degrees of violence.

“This is known as disinhibition.[9]

“People with OCPD often tend to general pessimism and/or underlying form(s) of depression.[10][11][12] This can at times become so serious that suicide is a risk.[13]

“Indeed, one study suggests that personality disorders are a substrate to psychiatric morbidity. They may cause more problems in functioning than a major depressive episode.[14]”

Ah, this answers the question I had about OCD v. OCPD... That said, when I see criminals with a pathological need to control others/punish others/abuse or attack others, that to me seems much more like Cluster B personality disorders (sociopathy, narcissism, borderline) than any of obsessive/compulsive disorders. Cluster B people absolutely exhibit weird compulsions, but they also have no empathy, causing victimization of others in a wide variety of methods and degrees. Plus, like DeAngelo, their self-pity knows no bounds. Those aren't features of OCD. Just my opinion.
 
OCDP is different from OCD. I have terrible OCD. I often feel frustrated with how often culture and media refer to OCD by using what is actually an OCDP personality. For example a friend might say “gosh I am so ocd. Like I can’t leave my room not perfectly clean”. In this instance, this need to clean is almost seen as a virtue. However, the ocd person has a thought that is obsessive that is uncomfortable and this leads to a behavior that is compulsive in order to try and reduce the anxiety. They are different. Sorry if this is a poor attempt at an explanation. In fact an ocd person is generally more likely not to have behaviors and compulsions because they are scared of the “what if” .... “what if I murder my parents” this is simply and intrusive thought, and the discomfort of having something so dreadful even pop up
In ones psyche scares them to the point that while they know they would never do this, their magical thinking causes them to repeat or so some sort of behavior or ritual such as tapping, avoiding, making bargains with them selves etc. the OCDP person doesn’t get intrusive illogical thoughts like this. They more have the need in their personality for things to be in their control and order.

Also apologies. I never reread what I type via phone so know some words and grammar are missing/ incorrect.

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Right. Gotcha. I agree completely with everything you've written here. There are so many weird myths out there about your condition, you must find that terribly frustrating.
 
Ah, this answers the question I had about OCD v. OCPD... That said, when I see criminals with a pathological need to control others/punish others/abuse or attack others, that to me seems much more like Cluster B personality disorders (sociopathy, narcissism, borderline) than any of obsessive/compulsive disorders. Cluster B people absolutely exhibit weird compulsions, but they also have no empathy, causing victimization of others in a wide variety of methods and degrees. Plus, like DeAngelo, their self-pity knows no bounds. Those aren't features of OCD. Just my opinion.

I agree with this. whether he has OCDP or even OCD is not truly important. Neither would be a cause or be a basis for the motivation or justification for why he terrorized and killed. If anything these two would more likely deter a person as individuals with ocd tend to be more sensitive, fearful, and overcome with their own fears for themselves or their families or
Etc. this would not jive with the mind of a killer. And it would I am going to assume get in their way and make them more likely to be caught anyways.

Sorry if this is sort of off topic.

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Does the state need to have a doctor examine him in order to get him out of that wheelchair, at least long enough to answer a question or two in court? They didn't pull him out of a nursing home, for crying out loud. This really annoys me, but it's in keeping with his weasel-like personality.
 
The ABC 20/20 - To Catch a Killer has just aired on Australian TV at a late 11pm timeslot.

I think you can watch it on this link: http://abc.go.com/shows/2020/episode-guide/2018-05/04-050418-to-catch-killer

I DVR-ed the 20/20 episode and finally had a chance to watch it. The piece was very well done, but I can't say that I learned anything new, having read so many articles. It did feature the medical examiner who preserved the second rape kit that was used to obtain a good DNA sample.
 
Ah, this answers the question I had about OCD v. OCPD... That said, when I see criminals with a pathological need to control others/punish others/abuse or attack others, that to me seems much more like Cluster B personality disorders (sociopathy, narcissism, borderline) than any of obsessive/compulsive disorders. Cluster B people absolutely exhibit weird compulsions, but they also have no empathy, causing victimization of others in a wide variety of methods and degrees. Plus, like DeAngelo, their self-pity knows no bounds. Those aren't features of OCD. Just my opinion.

Yes, personality disordered. Not OCD. And people can be diagnosed with comorbid personality disorders, etc.

OCPD: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_personality_disorder
 
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/crime/article209898944.html

This article may have been posted before but I don't remember it. It is an article about Brian Maggiore's 83 yo mother being notified that her son's killer had finally been arrested after 40 years.

Brian was from Fresno, which is coincidently only 40 miles from Visalia. So again I wonder if he recognised JJD from when he was a cop in Exeter or Auburn and perhaps that was why he and his wife were shot when their dog disturbed him.
 
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/crime/article209898944.html

This article may have been posted before but I don't remember it. It is an article about Brian Maggiore's 83 yo mother being notified that her son's killer had finally been arrested after 40 years.

Brian was from Fresno, which is coincidently only 40 miles from Visalia. So again I wonder if he recognised JJD from when he was a cop in Exeter or Auburn and perhaps that was why he and his wife were shot when their dog disturbed him.

JJD’s wife finished her undergrad and received her Bachelor’s degree from Fresno State. (CSU Fresno). I wonder if either of the Maggiores attended Fresno State also.
 
I agree with this. whether he has OCDP or even OCD is not truly important. Neither would be a cause or be a basis for the motivation or justification for why he terrorized and killed. If anything these two would more likely deter a person as individuals with ocd tend to be more sensitive, fearful, and overcome with their own fears for themselves or their families or
Etc. this would not jive with the mind of a killer. And it would I am going to assume get in their way and make them more likely to be caught anyways.

Sorry if this is sort of off topic.

I don’t believe anyone here is looking for a reason to “justify,” as you said, why he committed these crimes, imo.

It’s pretty clear from what little we know that JJD knew right from wrong. He isn’t (and wasn’t) legally insane. He’s clearly sane. He’s also intelligent. He’s guilty as guilty can be, in my opinion.

That said, personally, I’m discussing this killer and this case as an armchair sleuth, as most of us are in our own ways. Heck, LE and amateurs like us have been doing it for decades, and now we’re all comparing notes now that we know who is charged in these crimes.

Again, it’s not making judgment or excuses for his actions, but instead to learn more about WHY he did them.

And OCD and OCPD are clearly not synonymous, as has been discussed upthread. One, OCPD, is a bona-fide personality disorder. The other is an anxiety disorder.

In my opinion, JJD was/is a personality disordered individual. He knew right from wrong, and felt compelled to control interpersonal relationships and force everything around him into his rigid worldview.

From the link:

• Because OCPD is defined by inflexibility, the behaviors tend to be persistent and unchanging over the long term.

• Persons with OCPD will usually not seek help because they don't see anything they are doing is particularly abnormal or irrational.

• People with OCPD fully believe that their actions have an aim and purpose.

• With OCPD, the behaviors are NOT directed by thoughts you are unable to control or irrational behaviors you repeat over and over again, often with no apparent aim.

• An excessive need for perfection and a relentless control over not only one's environment but the nature of interpersonal relationships.

https://www.verywellmind.com/ocd-vs-obsessive-compulsive-personality-disorder-2510584

Sounds like JJD to me. [emoji115]
 
It would be great if the Abby and Libby care sluld get the same GED open source dna treatment. Limiting suspects lists down to just thousands would be a huge improvement
 
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