CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

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My last post is so disjointed!
:blushing:

the biggest problem in this particular situation seems to have been non compliance by ER. A common criticism of the parents on Dr. Drew...."they had leverage (the car, money, apt..etc) and they should have used it to make him comply."

It's why I'm very interested how much he discusses therapy and/or if he agreed with whatever it was he was diagnosed with in his manifesto.

Although I agree with many who have said that the manifesto is just another tool in the big F.U. he has given the world.
 
zoran said:
how did a pip squeak like him kill 3 men with a knife? surely they didn't go quietly in their sleep?
Click to expand...
That has bewildered me as well.It was also very bizarre that it took so long to release (in fact it created much confusion) that there were three victims in the apartment. Where is the first place LE would go after ID him. His residence (bomb in there – he was obviously feeling violent) . Something just “felt” odd. They throughout the number 6 killed from the beginning – so they knew. Certainly that he had slaughtered three of his roommates is a significant detail.


Seems to me the headline from the beginning ought to have included the tragedy at the apartment. And (never heard of this but) I can go with there was so much despair we will hold off 24 hours BUT to if their intent is to never release that I do not feel that is a good path to start going down.


They did however make it a point to highlight how gruesome and violent the scene was .


Hope they are not doing the big new game in time (politic folk love - outright lie, or miss something, wait until the media go away).
 
CARIIS said:
That has bewildered me as well.It was also very bizarre that it took so long to release (in fact it created much confusion) that there were three victims in the apartment. Where is the first place LE would go after ID him. His residence (bomb in there – he was obviously feeling violent) . Something just “felt” odd. They throughout the number 6 killed from the beginning – so they knew. Certainly that he had slaughtered three of his roommates is a significant detail.


Seems to me the headline from the beginning ought to have included the tragedy at the apartment. And (never heard of this but) I can go with there was so much despair we will hold off 24 hours BUT to if their intent is to never release that I do not feel that is a good path to start going down.


They did however make it a point to highlight how gruesome and violent the scene was .


Hope they are not doing the big new game in time (politic folk love - outright lie, or miss something, wait until the media go away).
Click to expand...

I wonder if they wanted to wait until all family members had been notified. Imagine you saw on the news that this guy killed 3 in his apartment, and your child was one of his roommates! I'm just guessing. And if the scene was that horrible, I wonder about IDing the bodies. Someone mentioned beheading, and he did have a machete right? And I think he mentioned riding around with heads during his "day of retribution". Again, just conjecture. Scary, horrible conjecture.
 
Flutterby80 said:
He also considered himself rejected by women, when there is no indication that he EVER made an effort to engage with one. He considered himself brilliant, but wrote that he got "the grade of B" at community college in the couple of classes he didn't drop.

He considered himself above doing anything for himself that didn't involve both HUGE payoff and minimal effort. He said himself that he was only interested in writing if he could write one epic novel, do it in a short period of time, make a ton of money, then never have to bother with it again. When he figured out it was going to take time, and actual work, he discarded the idea.

His view of himself, as well of the rest of the world, was very skewed. Not sure mom or dad could have headed this off by being more attentive.
Click to expand...

Also, he wanted to kill every woman in the world and, in the end, actually killed twice as many men as he did women. A fitting end to ER's pathetic life.
 
bettybaby00 said:
My last post is so disjointed!
:blushing:

the biggest problem in this particular situation seems to have been non compliance by ER. A common criticism of the parents on Dr. Drew...."they had leverage (the car, money, apt..etc) and they should have used it to make him comply."

It's why I'm very interested how much he discusses therapy and/or if he agreed with whatever it was he was diagnosed with in his manifesto.

Although I agree with many who have said that the manifesto is just another tool in the big F.U. he has given the world.
Click to expand...
RE the biggest problem in this particular situation seems to have been noncompliance by ER:

We need to remember that we are talking about a 8 year old child at that part of this story. Obviously for any age adult/child therapy is of no value if the client is not committed to the process. With autistic spectrum disorders it is even tougher ---when you think about it -- what is therapy solely about.? Interacting and communicating with another human being, which for obvious reasons(!) (communication the biggest symptom in the first place) creates somewhat of an irony and a skilled clinician to not label the child as not participating in treatment! Label him non-compliant and not discharge him because he is not coming in and pouring his heart out!

I did several years in forensic (jail) and if the client wanted to act out by refusing to speak I would extend an invitation to talk this time, give them 2 minutes and if they remained mute with their arms folded I started doing some paperwork. You would be amazed at how quickly (remember they have issues with authority figures, are in jail searching for power of some sort) when I started with the paperwork I erased the power and control dynamic. Starting paperwork is ok fine I accept your choice not to speak today and guess what he/she can longer be engaging in a power and control issue. Boy would they start chatting (often the following session!) because initially when I first started with the paperwork they believed I would come back on-line-(!) and reengage with attempting to "get" them to talk!

SO(!) at the end of the session, wherein the client sat there for 45 minutes and grasped that boy oh boy this can go on next week thing changed the following session!
 
I just watched his video this morning and find him egotistical and bratty.

What I see is someone self important and entitled. How ironic as he talks about the other kids and their privilege as he is sitting in a black beemer.

I don't care if this is popular or not, But this is what we get when we raise self important kids. Kids that think they are entitled to whatever they want. Kids that think they are the most important thing in the world.

He could have had a girlfriend, He could have had a nice life but he did not want a nice girl to love, he wanted a hot video girl. He did not want to achieve greatness he wanted to be handed greatness.

The other thing is you are never going to be able to govern crazy or evil. So there is no use trying. You make laws and you can punish them after but you can not prevent this stuff.

Not from this kind of egomaniac.

I feel bad for the victims and I feel bad for his parents, but but but to me this smacks of a self entitled child.
 
CARIIS said:
That has bewildered me as well.It was also very bizarre that it took so long to release (in fact it created much confusion) that there were three victims in the apartment. Where is the first place LE would go after ID him. His residence (bomb in there – he was obviously feeling violent) . Something just “felt” odd. They throughout the number 6 killed from the beginning – so they knew. Certainly that he had slaughtered three of his roommates is a significant detail.


Seems to me the headline from the beginning ought to have included the tragedy at the apartment. And (never heard of this but) I can go with there was so much despair we will hold off 24 hours BUT to if their intent is to never release that I do not feel that is a good path to start going down.


They did however make it a point to highlight how gruesome and violent the scene was .


Hope they are not doing the big new game in time (politic folk love - outright lie, or miss something, wait until the media go away).
Click to expand...


Just jumping off your post...

Following is a theory of mine... Will modify when/if more facts are revealed...

I imagine some LE were sent to the apartment WHILE some LE went to the shooting locations...

The shooting locations were more volatile, rapidly changing, very visible, many people (the crowds) were at risk, and there were Many witnesses to the rampage.. ..

The street rampage involved many places, and many people, and there were many variables... Thus high media coverage...

Back at the apartment LE found 3 persons brutally murdered...we don't know exactly how yet...just that there was a hammer, knife(ves) and machete(es)...but ER did mention he wanted to behead some people... YIKES!

It was probably difficult to officially ID the murdered men at the apartment due to:
- too much carnage

- two were roommates of ER... One was a "guest"... But...Who was who?

- There was no one alive inside the apartment to be utilized as witnesses

Therefore... LE was reporting the total amount of people deceased as 6... But we're hesitant to report the apartment deaths as they were not certain of the identities...

I imagine a group of LE was processing the apartment crime scene throughout Friday night/Saturday morning... While media was focused on the rampage on the streets...

All... Just JMO...
 
mikeysmommom said:
As far as the Dad wanting his own evaluation done and More Visitation, Paying less child support.

He was having financial problems after sinking in his own money into his God film.He also traveled a lot.When it came out it only grossed IIRC 40,000 00 So he lost big time.That was when ER addressed dad as a loser .So when he asked for a reduction in 1998 ? he really was in a financial bind he was remarried but no kids at that point. Remember his job was not a 9 to 5 with a paycheck weekly. This was before he was working on hunger games.
As far as more visitation he wanted to see his children and most likely wanted his son ,daughter to be around his new wife hoping they woulld meld into a family unit. Is that a bad thing? NO a father has a right to be with his children 50/50 unless unfit. Mothers also make new lives remarry, Or is it only okay for a mom to work and leave children in daycare or with a nanny or a new spouse. As far as the medical evaluation if this was not talked about between BOTH parents he did the right thing insuring there was a problem when maybe ER just seemed painfully shy and was just a loner, some people are and are normal. If he worked alot he might not of saw all the mom saw. Maybe that is when he realized I need to be around him more. When I read the paperwork the only thing that I thought was a unrealistic was the wife who had been a Nurse on movie sets refused to work as an RN, so at that time not contributing to her own house hold when the kids are in school a full day, because she had IMO told him she wanted to be a Movie executive which IMO is delusional ! She is also responsible to provide for her children 50/50. I see nothing wrong with what the dad was doing when he diid have the money paid it and they lived close which IMO every thing seemed geared in the interest of the kids as it should be.
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent. Parents have an inherit right to their children provided there is no verbal, mental, or physical abuse. There doesn't seem to be any in ER's life from his biological parents. I sympathize with a family that's dealing with financial difficulties.

The only thing I feel that could have caused problems was stepmother was brought into the childrens' lives too soon. Being a child of divorce, I remember my 9-11 year old self being indignant that one of my parents already had a new partner (just a few weeks after the separation). I could relate to ER's stories about his stepmother coming into his life and her attempts to discipline him.

It's too late to do anything about this, but needs to be said. Divorce is especially hard on children. They need stability and constant reassurance that they're still loved and wanted by both their parents. Bringing in a new partner too soon is never a good idea. It only creates more havoc in a world children truly have no control over. Soumaya's appearance into this family's life was too much too soon. Not that I blaming his mental state solely on that. It certainly didn't help anything. I'm projecting again, but a new love partner often makes children feel abandoned when they're already reeling from separation/divorce.

JMO & :twocents:
 
Parents of Santa Barbara Killer Elliott Rodger So Distraught 'Their Speech Is Stuttered'

Rodger visited numerous therapists during his childhood. His parents were hopeful that therapy and medication could resolve their son’s inability to make friends and his resulting rage.

“I understand he was on Xanax for about six months,” Astaire said, with Rodger refusing to take medication on previous occasions.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/parents-santa-barbara-killer-distraught-speech-stuttered/story?id=23908059
Click to expand...

I take that to mean he's been on Xanax the last 6 months, but it doesn't necessarily meant that based on the phrasing.

Also the story doesn't say who prescribed the medicine.

I'm not a big fan of long term use of the drug. A person can build up a tolerance to Xanax very quickly. It can also lead to depression, IMO.

I do believe anxiety was a bigger issue for ER than perhaps some people believe. There are better ways to deal with it, however, than the extended use of Xanax. Again, JMO.
 
UC Santa Barbara students paddle out to honor Isla Vista victims

16x9


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...le-out-isla-vista-victims-20140529-story.html
 
Disguiseduser0308 said:
I'm not sure about this guy -- the headline reads ER was his best friend and immediately under it reads



Aren't best friends by their very title, close? Which is it? :banghead:
Click to expand...

Could be but, I got the sense the friend was just trying to distance himself from this murderer. JMO
 
Flutterby80 said:
He also considered himself rejected by women, when there is no indication that he EVER made an effort to engage with one. He considered himself brilliant, but wrote that he got "the grade of B" at community college in the couple of classes he didn't drop.

He considered himself above doing anything for himself that didn't involve both HUGE payoff and minimal effort. He said himself that he was only interested in writing if he could write one epic novel, do it in a short period of time, make a ton of money, then never have to bother with it again. When he figured out it was going to take time, and actual work, he discarded the idea.

His view of himself, as well of the rest of the world, was very skewed. Not sure mom or dad could have headed this off by being more attentive.
Click to expand...

bbm

I think this is very important. I am wanting to hear from anyone who rejected his advances. I am thinking that the rejection was made up, in his head.
 
Elley Mae said:
bbm

I think this is very important. I am wanting to hear from anyone who rejected his advances. I am thinking that the rejection was made up, in his head.
Click to expand...

I poured over the manifesto multiple times, hoping to find just one instance where ER directly approached a female. He didn't. If he did, he didn't mention it in his manifesto. Which is incredible to consider. I would imagine if he had, that girls name would be in bold -- capital letters -- and she would be called all sorts of horrid names for brushing off his advances and not giving him her sex. :banghead:
 
Quester said:
EXCLUSIVE: ‘I can’t believe I was friends with a psycho, mass murderer’: Virgin Killer’s best friend speaks out and reveals he warned [ER]’s mother about disturbing Facebook post months ago

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ther-disturbing-Facebook-post-months-ago.html
Click to expand...

... At one point in Rodger’s manifesto he references an occasion when he went to the Getty museum with [P] and [A].

He wrote: ‘…we visited the Getty. Museum to admire the brilliant scenery and architecture. While there, I overheard [P] telling [A] that some girls were checking him out.

‘Feeling jealous, I asked [P] if any of those girls checked me out, and he had the audacity to say no, none of them did. I felt so heartbroken that I left the two of them and cried to myself, ruining my whole experience at the museum. How could girls check out Addison but not me?’

[P] remembers the incident, but his perception of events is completely different. He said: ‘I do recall that. I explained to Elliot that if he wanted attention from girls he needed to talk to them, but he wouldn’t take my advice.

‘In my mind it wasn’t a big deal at all, but he obviously perceived it differently.’ ...

* * *

Another incident that seemed to have a huge impact on Elliot was a row he had with [A], who apparently told him, ‘No girl in this whole world will ever want to **** you.’

He went on: ‘I already felt that no girl in the world wanted to **** me. I was a kissless virgin after all. That was the sole reason why I was suffering. But to hear it come from someone else, someone like [A], really caused it to sink into core of my mentality and emotions.

‘That whole night made for a very vile and wicked experience. I decided not to see [P] and [A] for a long time.’

Again [P] remembers there being a minor incident between his two friends, but considered it to be of no real importance. He said: ‘It seems Elliot had a completely warped sense of reality and perceived things very differently to everyone else.’ ...
 
Quester said:
... At one point in Rodger’s manifesto he references an occasion when he went to the Getty museum with [P] and [A].

He wrote: ‘…we visited the Getty. Museum to admire the brilliant scenery and architecture. While there, I overheard [P] telling [A] that some girls were checking him out.

‘Feeling jealous, I asked [P] if any of those girls checked me out, and he had the audacity to say no, none of them did. I felt so heartbroken that I left the two of them and cried to myself, ruining my whole experience at the museum. How could girls check out Addison but not me?’

[P] remembers the incident, but his perception of events is completely different. He said: ‘I do recall that. I explained to Elliot that if he wanted attention from girls he needed to talk to them, but he wouldn’t take my advice.

‘In my mind it wasn’t a big deal at all, but he obviously perceived it differently.’ ...

* * *

Another incident that seemed to have a huge impact on Elliot was a row he had with [A], who apparently told him, ‘No girl in this whole world will ever want to **** you.’

He went on: ‘I already felt that no girl in the world wanted to **** me. I was a kissless virgin after all. That was the sole reason why I was suffering. But to hear it come from someone else, someone like [A], really caused it to sink into core of my mentality and emotions.

‘That whole night made for a very vile and wicked experience. I decided not to see [P] and [A] for a long time.’

Again [P] remembers there being a minor incident between his two friends, but considered it to be of no real importance. He said: It seems Elliot had a completely warped sense of reality and perceived things very differently to everyone else’ ...
Click to expand...

BBM. This is blatantly obvious to the entire world now, but his friends probably just considered him weird. Until toward the end, anyway.
 
Generally speaking ...

I can only imagine it must be difficult for a psychiatrist to sit down with little-prince-"Johnny"'s parents and tell them that little "Johnny" is a very, very troubled young boy/man/whatever, but that is precisely the job of the psychiatrist.

But ... with the known stigma of the permanent attachment of any serious looming mental/personality diagnosis, I hope psychiatrists and parents aren't working toward an effort of under-diagnosing, at least on paper, any true diagnosis just to try to eliminate the connection of dots (from ins co, health org, when needed by LE, etc) and therefore the stigma from the-little-"Johnny"'s-of-the-world who also risk being the future perpetrators of horror incidences similar to those which we all find ourselves here today discussing. JMO

I also fear this might be happening a whole lot more than any of us want to know. JMO
 
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